I was at the Book Fair/BASTARD Conference in the Bay Area this past weekend. I saw the Greeks speak a couple times and found some things they had to say on space and friendship particularly interesting.
An “anarchist space” as opposed to an “anarchist movement.” Anarchism and the idea of an “anarchist movement” isn't so much considered in Greece as the idea of an anarchist space. The police-free autonomous zones are constructed and maintained. Presumably the goal would be to continually strengthen this space. The anarchist space is conceived of in relation to points: “stars that make up a galaxy.” In having an anarchist space, there is a perceivable presence. Ask someone in Athens where the anarchists are and they'll point to places.
“We want to feel strange in this world.” We position ourselves against the oppressive categories that maintain a sense of normalcy. How else are we to really experience the full possibility of life without rupture? In the gaps created we form communities. We find one another. The main organizational form is friendship. “All subcultures are ours.” Subcultures build themselves off of some form of alienation. They point towards possible total rupture in highlighting areas of hegemonic weakness. So we extend an invitation to autonomy. We come together as friends. We create our autonomous spaces, as friends. We are your friends. You'll never be alone again.
i saw the greeks too...i think you misinterpreted several aspects of what they said the most glaring being "The police-free autonomous zones are constructed and maintained." They reiterated that there is no such thing a "police-free" zone but rather it's a mentality (intellectual and emotional space) that they try to embody.
would love to hear more expanded thoughts on this. certainly a lot to think about.
also thought it was pretty interesting the greeks talk about their culture of directness and how it plays out in the anarchist space. it seems that critiques are (at least more often than here) taken in good faith as the subject of serious discussion rather than turning instantly into a stream of acrimonious ad hominems and cries of 'get out of my fucking sandbox'.
a lot of things are different about the greek context, but if we can learn anything from them perhaps it is their basic posture of relating to each other (and to the world at large) as anarchists.
Your point? To be honest demanding anything seems like a form of bargaining to me, especially if there is no authority we recognize to "demand" things from. Demanding is just assertive asking anyway. Not sure why you are sorry to hear that we are now dealing with reality and not intangible platitudes.
Submitted by Comrade Martin on Wed, 2010-03-17 01:58.
We should refuse to demand anything.
We must take. And when we take, we do it with our friends/comrades.
If we cannot "stomach" the thought of our comrades being our friends, or our friends being our comrades, this is only evidence of just how backwards this moment of revolutionary activity is.
No such elitism exists in Greece - or where it does, its being smashed; they're ahead of us.
Did they give examples of what sorts of spaces they used? Obviously squats, but what about co-ops, cafes, and other types of places? Space is hard to keep in this country when people in the city are making so much money on it by the second and most people have little choice in where they live, much less where they choose to take their stand against private property. With private security armies use expanding in the US and a division of the Army now stationed as standing troops for use in "crowd control and preserving public order" we should probably be thinking pretty hard about what kinds of spaces we can actually hold an maintain and why. The anti-foreclosure issue gives us spaces to temporarily fight for, but the only reason such efforts are allowed as much as they are is that they are fights for small amounts of individual private property. How do we up the anti to demanding community space? Perhaps the size of the the country and the thinly spread demographic of anti-authoritarians keeps us all struggling in our back yards when the real catalyst for change would be a large number of anarchists in one city or community that they could affect. Perhaps we should have networks of people from various regions focused on maintaining space where we seem most likely to keep it.
in addition to squats they talked about how people just kick it at certain cafes, squares, parks or bars where the owners and other folks who work at or use the space are "down" or friendly. sometimes a bunch of @s will just post up somewhere with a banner and smoke cigs and talk to people. all these things serve to create a kind of anarchist presence in daily metropolitan life which is simultaneous political and personal, explicit, but approachable.
they explicitly talked about public spaces actually, vs (although not exclusive to) infoshops and enclosed buildings -- for example parks, public squares, etc, and the difference that claiming those spaces makes in being visible, being accessible, being friendly without losing identifiable markers (being friendly and accessible doesn't necessarily mean pretending to be something we're/they're not). at least, i think that's the point they were making.
How bout detroit? Can get houses there for like $1000.00 right now. Or some where in rural ky. I'm down, lets do it. Maybe check out bloominginspace.wordpress.com
Anarchists should seriously look into "Rural Development Loans" by the USDA. It's a 100% paid, minimal interest (on par with inflation, really), made specifically for low-income individuals, paid over the next 30 to 38 years. But it can't be in a city. A collective could really get a lot of land and pay if off with small monthly payments (much better than rent usually) and create really rad eco-villages.
no not molotovs and riots, just SPACE that is actually OURS, that the cops can't come in, that we have CONTROL over, without having to pay taxes, etc...
Example fail. "Since 1994, residents have paid taxes and fees for water, electricity, trash disposal, etc. The future of the area remains in doubt, though, as Danish authorities continue to push for its removal."
Yes yes yes. Who wants to start? Ready set GO! ! ! Oakland, Berkeley & San Francisco Bay Area California are really good hot spots to build autonomous zones /anarchist zones. An organizing forum should be linked to anarchist news dot org, infoshop and indybay. Who's with me? I come on this website everyday. I'm down to participate with ideas. People should get engaged. The crisis presents a great opportunity to build the resistance. Let's take advantage of a great opportunity to build something positive rather than making protests, websites and anarchist book fairs the limit of anarchist movement in the United States. We can start on the West coast and then East coast shall follow by our example. No justice No fuckin Peace!
I am in Canada and thus far removed from any of these things, but anarchists who live in cities where there is a larger number of anarchists and general anti-authoritarian attitudes should definitely lead the way. That is kind of stating the obvious, because really there is no other way. Many anarchists are simply isolated or in groups too small to do anything. If autonomous zones start in areas where they have something close to a chance, and they gain small victories, then people will come to them and support them from afar.
I don't know how much real solidarity (financial or otherwise) has actually been shown to the greek anarchists by the rest of us, but I know that there has been a lot of genuine hope and desire for their success. If we had a struggle on this continent we felt half as passionate about we could direct that energy into something we might actually see the result of in our lifetimes (without buying a ticket to Europe).
It seems pretty clear that the existence of Exarchia and areas like it are the thing that allows anarchists to survive as a social force. Without a physical infrastructure we are just a boogeyman. This is where the huge differences between Greece and the United States become obvious. We need to ask ourselves where is an anarchist neighborhood going to grow and survive in this country? And what can we, who may be far removed from it, do to help build it?
cool, come together and create a critical mass... put roots down, have babies and begin the process of inter-generational resistance that breeds revolution.
We periodically raise this idea in my country of 4 million... surely you think.... but no...
yeah have babies... mainly cos I don't think the revolution will happen before yuou graduate college... maybe you have witnessed a growing conservatism in comrades who have taken this path because they are essentially abandoned by the anarchist movement and left to sink. i think this is our problem - maybe we fear 'stability' 'routine'leaving our own childhoods behind... Communities that are experiencing/exhibiting solid flax-roots resistance are intergenerational and have being laying the ground work over generations - like Greece, Chiapas etc etc
What ever do you mean? It's easy to start a revolution when it's always year zero jks.
I am kind of split on this. While forming communities with anti-authoritarian values that could grow, hold territory, and develop a culture of resistance seems like the long term way to get things done it also seems likely that when things go to shit after we are dead the little bundles of rebellion we leave behind will likely live unfulfilling lives in an overpopulated disaster of a planet. Having kids seems pretty irresponsible if you actually hope for them to have a better future, but I suppose that isn't stopping the rest of the human race, so why should it stop anarchists?
I think one of the biggest reasons so many anarchists don't have kids or think of reproduction as anarchistic is that in our present social context that forces them to become parents. Suddenly they feel they will have to be responsible authority figures and do a lot of bullshit they don't actually believe will help their children. If we lived in a collectivist society where children are not property of their parents or part of a family unit, maybe things would be different, but in our present society having a kid is a fast track to being chained to a house, car, and job.
It's nice to hear them talking about the need for liberated spaces: it sounds very much like something Agamben would say. I'm sick and tired of the bullshit calls for a movement. We need to take space and build power.
I wonder if there's a tape or transcript of the talk available.
Well I understand friendship better than most. People do need to work on getting along better in the movement and stop seeing this as a movement but a family that fights and forgives and lives on.
That sounds awesome. Which
That sounds awesome. Which we could be doinitrite.
Which >Wish? me 2. feels bad
Which
>Wish?
me 2. feels bad man.
i saw the greeks too...i
i saw the greeks too...i think you misinterpreted several aspects of what they said the most glaring being "The police-free autonomous zones are constructed and maintained." They reiterated that there is no such thing a "police-free" zone but rather it's a mentality (intellectual and emotional space) that they try to embody.
I guess in saying
I guess in saying "constructed" I meant something like "constructed mentally and then maintained physically."
would love to hear more
would love to hear more expanded thoughts on this. certainly a lot to think about.
also thought it was pretty interesting the greeks talk about their culture of directness and how it plays out in the anarchist space. it seems that critiques are (at least more often than here) taken in good faith as the subject of serious discussion rather than turning instantly into a stream of acrimonious ad hominems and cries of 'get out of my fucking sandbox'.
a lot of things are different about the greek context, but if we can learn anything from them perhaps it is their basic posture of relating to each other (and to the world at large) as anarchists.
"acrimonious ad hominems"
"acrimonious ad hominems" and "get out of my fucking sandbox" should have been options on the tshirt poll
CAPTCHA: kindling going
no, really: squat the
no, really: squat the totality.
OH SWEET, ANOTHER POST THAT
OH SWEET, ANOTHER POST THAT MENTIONS GREECE. almost went two hours without one. phew.
WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LOST IF
WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LOST IF THEY HADN'T MENTIONED GREECE!
But seriously, i think this is cool. Seeing this has actually raised my already high hopes for the Greek struggle.
Now if only something like that happened here...
Yeah, no shit. I'm sick of
Yeah, no shit. I'm sick of hearing about people actually getting down to real shit instead of throwing tapatio pies at omnivores.
Why don't these Greeks just like, y'know, chill and just stick to some university dance parties, brah?
Friendship is political.
Friendship is political.
We used to demand entire
We used to demand entire cities and fields, now we settle for "friendship is political" and "if I can't dance, it's not my revolution."
After years of defeat we
After years of defeat we have to start somewhere. But you seem to want to take all the power from friendship? Don't you have any friends?
Your point? To be honest
Your point? To be honest demanding anything seems like a form of bargaining to me, especially if there is no authority we recognize to "demand" things from. Demanding is just assertive asking anyway. Not sure why you are sorry to hear that we are now dealing with reality and not intangible platitudes.
We should refuse to demand
We should refuse to demand anything.
We must take. And when we take, we do it with our friends/comrades.
If we cannot "stomach" the thought of our comrades being our friends, or our friends being our comrades, this is only evidence of just how backwards this moment of revolutionary activity is.
No such elitism exists in Greece - or where it does, its being smashed; they're ahead of us.
kill rock stars
kill rock stars
kill slim moon
kill slim moon
Kill Sailor Moon.
Kill Sailor Moon.
Kill Moonbeam Starchild.
Kill Moonbeam Starchild.
albion
albion
Greeks are ahead of us on so
Greeks are ahead of us on so many fronts. Except managing a national economy. They suck at that.
But they are further ahead
But they are further ahead of us in mangling and destroying their national economy...
Did they give examples of
Did they give examples of what sorts of spaces they used? Obviously squats, but what about co-ops, cafes, and other types of places? Space is hard to keep in this country when people in the city are making so much money on it by the second and most people have little choice in where they live, much less where they choose to take their stand against private property. With private security armies use expanding in the US and a division of the Army now stationed as standing troops for use in "crowd control and preserving public order" we should probably be thinking pretty hard about what kinds of spaces we can actually hold an maintain and why. The anti-foreclosure issue gives us spaces to temporarily fight for, but the only reason such efforts are allowed as much as they are is that they are fights for small amounts of individual private property. How do we up the anti to demanding community space? Perhaps the size of the the country and the thinly spread demographic of anti-authoritarians keeps us all struggling in our back yards when the real catalyst for change would be a large number of anarchists in one city or community that they could affect. Perhaps we should have networks of people from various regions focused on maintaining space where we seem most likely to keep it.
in addition to squats they
in addition to squats they talked about how people just kick it at certain cafes, squares, parks or bars where the owners and other folks who work at or use the space are "down" or friendly. sometimes a bunch of @s will just post up somewhere with a banner and smoke cigs and talk to people. all these things serve to create a kind of anarchist presence in daily metropolitan life which is simultaneous political and personal, explicit, but approachable.
This is how Modesto does it.
This is how Modesto does it.
they explicitly talked about
they explicitly talked about public spaces actually, vs (although not exclusive to) infoshops and enclosed buildings -- for example parks, public squares, etc, and the difference that claiming those spaces makes in being visible, being accessible, being friendly without losing identifiable markers (being friendly and accessible doesn't necessarily mean pretending to be something we're/they're not). at least, i think that's the point they were making.
TERRITORY. i have been
TERRITORY.
i have been saying it for years and years.
anarchist neighborhoods.
duh.
How bout detroit? Can get
How bout detroit? Can get houses there for like $1000.00 right now. Or some where in rural ky. I'm down, lets do it. Maybe check out bloominginspace.wordpress.com
Anarchists should seriously
Anarchists should seriously look into "Rural Development Loans" by the USDA. It's a 100% paid, minimal interest (on par with inflation, really), made specifically for low-income individuals, paid over the next 30 to 38 years. But it can't be in a city. A collective could really get a lot of land and pay if off with small monthly payments (much better than rent usually) and create really rad eco-villages.
http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/
would an anarchist space pay
would an anarchist space pay rent/debt or taxes?
no.
try again.
I forgot I'm dealing with
I forgot I'm dealing with U.S. anarchists... IF ITS NOT MOLOTOVS AND RIOTS THEN ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!! PUNK ROCK!!!!!!!!
no not molotovs and riots,
no not molotovs and riots, just SPACE that is actually OURS, that the cops can't come in, that we have CONTROL over, without having to pay taxes, etc...
like Christiania, etc...
Example fail. "Since 1994,
Example fail. "Since 1994, residents have paid taxes and fees for water, electricity, trash disposal, etc. The future of the area remains in doubt, though, as Danish authorities continue to push for its removal."
pre-1994 then. sounds like
pre-1994 then. sounds like 1994 was when they gave up a revolutionary posture and were recuperated into the system...
Yes yes yes. Who wants to
Yes yes yes. Who wants to start? Ready set GO! ! ! Oakland, Berkeley & San Francisco Bay Area California are really good hot spots to build autonomous zones /anarchist zones. An organizing forum should be linked to anarchist news dot org, infoshop and indybay. Who's with me? I come on this website everyday. I'm down to participate with ideas. People should get engaged. The crisis presents a great opportunity to build the resistance. Let's take advantage of a great opportunity to build something positive rather than making protests, websites and anarchist book fairs the limit of anarchist movement in the United States. We can start on the West coast and then East coast shall follow by our example. No justice No fuckin Peace!
I am in Canada and thus far
I am in Canada and thus far removed from any of these things, but anarchists who live in cities where there is a larger number of anarchists and general anti-authoritarian attitudes should definitely lead the way. That is kind of stating the obvious, because really there is no other way. Many anarchists are simply isolated or in groups too small to do anything. If autonomous zones start in areas where they have something close to a chance, and they gain small victories, then people will come to them and support them from afar.
I don't know how much real solidarity (financial or otherwise) has actually been shown to the greek anarchists by the rest of us, but I know that there has been a lot of genuine hope and desire for their success. If we had a struggle on this continent we felt half as passionate about we could direct that energy into something we might actually see the result of in our lifetimes (without buying a ticket to Europe).
cont'd. It seems pretty
cont'd.
It seems pretty clear that the existence of Exarchia and areas like it are the thing that allows anarchists to survive as a social force. Without a physical infrastructure we are just a boogeyman. This is where the huge differences between Greece and the United States become obvious. We need to ask ourselves where is an anarchist neighborhood going to grow and survive in this country? And what can we, who may be far removed from it, do to help build it?
cool, come together and
cool, come together and create a critical mass... put roots down, have babies and begin the process of inter-generational resistance that breeds revolution.
We periodically raise this idea in my country of 4 million... surely you think.... but no...
kiwi g.
having babies breeds
having babies breeds revolution? explain pls. it seems to me that it breeds conservatism, as well as , you know, just breeding.
yeah have babies... mainly
yeah have babies... mainly cos I don't think the revolution will happen before yuou graduate college... maybe you have witnessed a growing conservatism in comrades who have taken this path because they are essentially abandoned by the anarchist movement and left to sink. i think this is our problem - maybe we fear 'stability' 'routine'leaving our own childhoods behind... Communities that are experiencing/exhibiting solid flax-roots resistance are intergenerational and have being laying the ground work over generations - like Greece, Chiapas etc etc
kiwi
What ever do you mean? It's
What ever do you mean? It's easy to start a revolution when it's always year zero jks.
I am kind of split on this. While forming communities with anti-authoritarian values that could grow, hold territory, and develop a culture of resistance seems like the long term way to get things done it also seems likely that when things go to shit after we are dead the little bundles of rebellion we leave behind will likely live unfulfilling lives in an overpopulated disaster of a planet. Having kids seems pretty irresponsible if you actually hope for them to have a better future, but I suppose that isn't stopping the rest of the human race, so why should it stop anarchists?
I think one of the biggest reasons so many anarchists don't have kids or think of reproduction as anarchistic is that in our present social context that forces them to become parents. Suddenly they feel they will have to be responsible authority figures and do a lot of bullshit they don't actually believe will help their children. If we lived in a collectivist society where children are not property of their parents or part of a family unit, maybe things would be different, but in our present society having a kid is a fast track to being chained to a house, car, and job.
It's nice to hear them
It's nice to hear them talking about the need for liberated spaces: it sounds very much like something Agamben would say. I'm sick and tired of the bullshit calls for a movement. We need to take space and build power.
I wonder if there's a tape or transcript of the talk available.
>> The main organizational
>> The main organizational form is friendship.
if only u.s. anarchists and identity politicians could actually grok this.
Well I understand friendship
Well I understand friendship better than most. People do need to work on getting along better in the movement and stop seeing this as a movement but a family that fights and forgives and lives on.
What? You understand
What? You understand friendship better than most? What?????
i think he's hinting at how
i think he's hinting at how many more Facebook friends he has that we do......
word
word
word to yah mothah ;-)
word to yah mothah ;-)
lol mon
lol mon
G-R-E-E-C-E! CAPTCHA:
G-R-E-E-C-E!
CAPTCHA: marketplace cutters