At “Law and Disorder”

At "Law and Disorder"

by Jenny Esquivel, Kristian Williams, and scott crow

On May 10, 2014, we attempted to speak on a panel at Law and Disorder
entitled, “Informants: Types, Cases & Warning Signs.” This is a subject
with which all three of us are only too-well acquainted. It is a subject
of utmost importance to us -- both personally and politically. One of us
has a partner spending almost 20 years in prison because of an informant.
We believe that sharing our experiences with the movements and struggles
we are a part of and that we care about deeply can go a long way towards
protecting those movements and the people involved in them.

And so it was with great dismay that we realized two weeks before our talk
was to happen that people were planning on disrupting the event. The
series of events that has unfolded has been disheartening and upsetting to
us as long-time anarchists and organizers.

As our first presenter began to speak, several people from the crowd stood
up and started chanting over him (“We will not be silenced by your
violence”) while the panelists sat silently, waiting to speak. The people
who were chanting have accused him of silencing survivors of domestic
abuse by writing a critique of call-out culture in his essay, “The
Politics of Denunciation.” Despite the efforts of the moderator, some
conflict-resolution peacekeepers, and event staff hired by the conference
organizers, it became impossible to proceed with the panel. When we were
notified that the police were preparing to intervene, we decided it was
best to end the event and leave.

To be clear -- no one on the panel called the cops. And we also didn’t
tell anyone else to call the cops. This should be obvious to anyone who
was present at our panel, as none of us used our phones or in any way
communicated with anyone else who used a phone during this time. We did
everything within our control to prevent this from happening and were
assured prior to the event that no one would call the cops and that no one
would be arrested. We would not have agreed to speak if not for these

As speakers, we have had two security priorities throughout this entire
experience: 1) ensuring that the cops did not get involved, and 2)
ensuring our ability to speak about an issue we believe is critically
important to our struggles. In the end, we resigned ourselves to
sacrificing our second priority (our ability to speak) to ensure that the
first was achieved. Our exit from the room was the only way we knew of to
ensure the safety of others who were present -- including those who were
being disruptive.

We believe that the damage caused by patriarchy and intimate violence in
our movements is a real and terrible force. These are problems that need
to be discussed, addressed and confronted head on. The way we do that as
a community has real implications for how we move forward together -- our
process around these issues has the potential to make us stronger. To
forge relationships based on solidarity, mutual aid and support that can
carry us through as we struggle against the state, patriarchy, capitalism
and all forms of oppression requires a level of willingness to treat each
other with respect and care -- even when we disagree.

We also believe that our communities and movements are strongest when we
can disagree without branding each other as enemies. Dialogue around
critical issues is sometimes painful and complicated -- but it doesn’t have
to mean that we destroy each other in the process, or that we sabotage
other important work. There are so many other places we need to be
focusing our energy and outrage -- but instead people seem insistent on
internal destruction. This pattern is not unique to this particular
instance, unfortunately, but seems to be happening in many other places
across the country. We hope that someday very soon we can learn to
disagree in ways that are constructive, rather than destructive.

That is, in part, why we opened the panel by promising time afterwards to
talk about the issues about which people are upset. We wanted to provide
space for people to engage in a more productive dialogue about how to
resolve our disagreements and frustrations. It is unfortunate that this
did not happen because people shut down the entire talk.

We would like to thank the organizers of this event for standing on
principle. It would have been much easier for them to cave under the
pressure of coercive threats than to move forward with the presentation.
Their willingness to foster a dialogue, rather than run from politically
complicated issues was heartening and reassuring during an otherwise sad
and stressful time.




Anarchsts, please stop making events open to the public. These idiots should never have been allowed in. Now you know better. It's not like there's some large group of people throwing these little temper-tantrums. Add up every little acting out session in the last 5 years and it is still only about 2 dozen people.

I was just sifting through the cast of characters on the "shut him down" event invite, and you're more correct about your last sentence than I imagined.

it's the same little shits doing this shit over and over throughout the last few years

not that the rest of the crowd deserves much more respect... this shit should at least start breaking out into fights. or at least water fights and chair throwing, or something.

if these patriarchy demons like ol' Manly Man Kristian Williams (sarcasm) are soooo fucking volatile, so rapey, so abusive and harmful... why is the response so pathetic as to just not let him talk, or to just shut down little class-room sized events?

surely such a huge rape-culture poster child "deserves" more than being interrupted by a sad little chant about not being silenced? Like, I wish the people who leveled these terrible, terrible generalizing accusations would behave as if the person to whom they're directed was actually worthy of them.

Maybe the unwillingness to much more than be loud at a tiny panel *accurately* reflects how genuine and accurate these ideas/people really are. They're acting like they're wittle feewings are hurt because... that must actually be the extent of it, despite the supposed seriousness with which we are supposed to take their argumentation.

If you're going to act like Rape Man supervillain is speaking on a panel, but all you do is yell a little bit till he goes home, how can I believe these people are taking themselves seriously? I think the reaction/behavior of disrupters like these reflects the shallow reality of these notions, and does NOT at all reflect the supposed seriousness of their accusations and positions. Hyperbole.

If that's how you fight something as supposedly significant to you as rape culture... no wonder it supposedly still exists... because the "fight" being undertaken is pathetic, weak and disproportionate to what is being asserted.

The main target here is not kw. He's just a prop for an organizing process. If it was about him there are many easier, less resource intensive, ways to stop a guy from speaking. All the conflict around the event helps create a conforming in-faction and ups penalties to dissenting. Organizing the disruption is about enforcing internal group cohesion and furthering local power hierarchies. There's no space for autonomy when there are only a couple unquestionable experts on what is and is not permissible to write about.

so then, what is our recourse? i want people to be practicing to stop this shit when it happens in the rooms we're in. and it's fine to say that people should have gotten into fist fights (and if you're in a scene like that, awesome), but that doesn't work all the time and it's better to have multiple options anyway...
the first thing that comes to mind for me is mockery; fight drama with drama?
but hey... that's probably just me.

If they are already in the final room there are no good options because you're stuck playing into their game. The answer is more anarchy and more organization. Less people participating in conferences like they are passive consumers and nothing ever matters. Some people blame KW and some blame the disrupt. I blame the other attendees and organizers just as much.

Organizers have to actually commit to a position and follow through. Saying someone IS going to speak but not having a real plan for how to accomplish that is irresponsible. Have people register and don't make it open to anyone. Secure a second room. Watch who is a participant in the disruption and take close up photos of them if you don't know them. Next year registration can have a nice board with "these idiots not welcome." Solves the long term problem. In the moment go around the room asking other people individually if they want to see KW speak or not. If no one does there's no point in him being there. If people do use a hand stamp and invite them to the other room. Attendees have to take responsibility for wanting to see someone and say fuck anyone who tries to block them. Once he finishes the first room can resume its talk. Things can always turn violent so you do need to have recruited other people to protect entrance to your space. You just need to have a clear process so everyone realizes you are justified in using resistance to keep them out of rooms. They are going to try to play the non-violence card by whining about supposedly being attacked. No way around this. They will try to play the cops card by blaming you when police eventually come and arrest some of them for trying to force their way into rooms. No way around this. If you have prepared statements others will realize the police showing is inevitable unless you choose to submit to these people. If everyone plans to submit why even have a conference?

i have in fact tried "more organization" to address this very dynamic (among others) and it totally did not work.
but even aside from that, there will always be places for forums where people are heavily vetted first, and other forums where they're not. does that mean that where there is a more open flow we have to just give way to this kind of "intervention"?
i really like the idea of going one by one and asking individuals if they want to hear the panelists (i agree that the bystanders are also responsible for the scenario - absolutely). that makes the dispersed responsibility obvious in a very concrete way.
i was thinking about how leaving the room would be an option (either for just kw or for the whole panel), although there is a show there that i don't like. (if the point of what they're doing is theater, then i hesitate to give them that picture...)

lists/picture of "these idiots not welcome" could be part of a plan, but there are always more idiots (to adopt your vernacular ;) ).

but yea, i think there need to be plans for last minute drama and other plans for addressing this kind of thing more long term. i guess i also don't think that these plans can be entirely about logistics - we also have to address the content. easier said than done, of course, but talking about what is called oppression in ways that don't echo "oppression politics" could be another part of a plan.

there will always need too be open forums. here everyone knew disruption would occur. participants were publicly bragging they would do so. so if organizers aren't prepared to handle that then making it a more closed event becomes a viable option. or just move that particular panel to a nearby private home and perfectly in the clear to beat the shit out of tresspassers. in that scenerio this would have ended up as 10 dumbasses standing on the sidewalk yelling to no one about how important they are until the cops came.

Anarchists and other anti-fascist allies have made it virtually impossible for white supremacists and their ilk to meet, march, or organize publicly and openly. Now "we" are doing it to ourselves. Or when we say "we" should start to exclude these morons?

i doubt many of these morons would actually take any risks like the ones needed to confront fascists.

just yell at them "liberals!" until they go away

Wait no I just watched the video and yeah KW seemed to be the exclusive target. "As soon as Kristian Williams leaves we'll let the other panel members speak." "Fuck Kristian Williams." ETC.

He wrote an article about the potential for unhealthy power dynamics that arise in communities sensitive to accusations of abuse, which if you think doesn't exist or simply equals survivor shaming you are narrow minded, not to mention historically ignorant. As a survivor of sexual violence myself, I'm frustrated that these folks only want to think of this in black and white terms. As an anarchist, I want all power dynamics challenged, patriarchal or otherwise.

Everyone wants to find an alternative to the obvious solution to these problems. Just imagine if this bullshit happened in a country with a real anarchist movement (Chile, Greece, etc.) for a guide on what to do. Let me spell it out for you. People who pull this kind of identity politics shit and frankly much worse shit over the past 5 years around the country should be ATTACKED immediately and pushed out of events like this and then everyone should be mature enough to get over it and have the event continue. The same goes for other provocative acts like distributing defamatory flyers and other bookfair-type antics. The people doing them do them because they feel safe, very very safe. They know that the only thing that will happen to them is they will feel a little more uncomfortable around people in the future. They're used to that and some even revel in it. They are not prepared to be beaten down like they deserve and they expect that if anything like that would happen, they would play themselves up as victims as much as possible to garner maximum sympathy from a pathetic, phony, leftist-infected, non-anarchist movement who would rush to make a huge deal out of it.

In summary for these situations to stop you need two things:

1. Immediate violence against these identity politicians when they act out.
2. A movement mature enough to not hyperventilate when the first thing happens and see acts against these people as righteous.

If those two things happen, you'd find a lot less people willing to do this bullshit. But we all know neither of those two things are going to happen in the U.S. or Canada for that matter, especially not together, so just accept that we are vulnerable and will be defeated as a movement internally forever. There is no alternative to the plan I've laid out. You need to do the acts necessary to push these people out of the way and you need the majority of people to have your back on doing that. We don't even have the second point among the people most critical of identity politics. Even those that hate the people associated with these strains most will be the first among those to condemn those who act against them. In short, their argument has no teeth. They long for a peaceful solution that's impossible and cling to many of the same ideas they claim to be critical of (Ex. violence against women (or anyone) is never justified and always avoidable). If you're going to take these contradictory stances, fine, just be honest about them. Be honest that with your limitations and the movement's limitations in mind, there is no solution and there's nothing you can do to stop these people ever.

If you want a non-violent first step forward, start having private discussions with as many people as possible in which the seed is planted that we should at least be severely critical of these tendencies. Maybe then the next generation in 10 years will have slightly less of this happening, but also never actually solve it. Maybe one day we'll get back to smashing the state but how can you smash the state when you're not even willing to smash these people's faces?

These people are sad, they suffered trauma, they are looking for attention and validation of their victim-hood. They cling to their identity as survivors. As if we aren't all survivors of something horrible and as if that is the same as having actually accomplished something. To attack them with violence MIGHT make them hesitate to employ such tactics in unfriendly place, but more so they would feel validated. It would demonstrate to them how radical they are and how even the revolutionaries are a bunch of phonies perpetuating rape culture and patriarchy. They'd revel in such a response.

Their is no easy solution, but I think that the best way to deal with these people is to ignore their pleas for attention and make it clear that their attacks against individuals and disruptive antics are unwelcome. We need to make it clear that they are not special, their being members of the survivors club does not give them license to do whatever the fuck they want. It doesn't give them the right to abuse others they see as enemies or of perpetrators of patriarchy. The best response would be to aggressively ignore and when necessary confront their crap and to tell them to take it elsewhere. Until then there will be no anarchist movement with teeth in North America.

"Just imagine if this bullshit happened in a country with a real anarchist movement (Chile, Greece, etc.) for a guide on what to do. "

you have no idea what you are talking about.

Peeps throughout Latin America are largely too busy overthrowing factions of various states and fighting the military whilst being disappeared and massacred to have the time to waste engaging in self righteous shit wherein people bicker with themselves about who gets to define violence, argue about who retains the status of perpetual victim hood and who is their converse to which they juxtapose themselves.

The fuck is I stagramminv, twittering and rolling in and out of coffee shops making plans to project your victim hood unto others in an attempt to enforce the playing of the oppression Olympics?

Maybe then the next generation.

Violence is linguisitc bullshite. Now, imagine somehow some small group of masked anarchists, 3 or 4, wind up on the conference. And let's assume they didn't had much problems due to them being masked. This shit starts, and this group of anarchists start insulting these little politicians and pushing them out. Like, seriously pushing them. What do you see would have happened?

This event doesn't sounds like something I would have liked to go to, even if this shit hadn't happened. And in my scenario, the masked anarchists might have been attacked by other attendees than the chanting idiots, as for them "violence" against the chanting wymen or just "violence" is unacceptable or something.

That's what I see. But this type of tactics of my scenario, of concealing your identity in public events might just work. It has been said that in nameless 2ch-style forums posters say what they really feel like saying. And if their "identity" is not compromised, some anarchists might act like they really feel like acting. But for that, concealment has to be encouraged in public anarchist events.

Then why aren't these people found, taken to a field, beaten within an inch of their lives and then left there to think about the consequences to their actions?

What kind of liberal guilt keeps anarchists in the US from retaliating, defending themselves, and attacking this crowed?

Who is in this "cast of characters" you speak of? Maybe those who don't like identity politicians should ostracize them right back.

This is the same strain of idiot that attempted to disrupt the NYC anarchist bookfair last year. In that case the person they targeted as an "enemy of the people" opted not to show. These disruptive types still came, got into conflict with the space's security people and shouted at organizers for not agreeing with them and issuing a ban.

Interestingly in both cases the angry ones shouting about violence labeled an individual as anti-survivor and anti-women and then they (presumably to broaden their base of allies) try to label said bad guy as someone who calls or cooperates with the police. There have been a number of cases of other organizers being targeted in similar manner. In every case I am familiar with the person being targeted and denounced has also been (or can be assumed has been) targeted by the state to a greater degree than most of us who identify as anarchists.

It's so ridiculous that these angry disruptive folks were shouting about being silenced and calling an article violent all while aggressiveness literally silencing a panel of people at least two thirds of which had been victims (am I supposed to say survivor?) of state repression who wanted to talk about and share their experiences as such.

They should just make some shit up about KW, start calling him a snitch etc. That's how they do in NYC.

In Chicago they'd accuse him of rape and then jump him in front of his friends to make him look like a little punk. Yay militancy!

You know how else we do in NYC? We call out cop-callers and abusers and then have to contend with their revolving door of new-to-the-scene defenders for years on end. The difference between KW and what's happened in NYC is that in the latter, there's a dude with a known history of being fucked up using the former to muddy the waters and deepen his well worn role of victim.

Clearly you're new here cause it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about.

A healthy and effective scene doesn't need to worry about bogeymen; politicians on the other hand absolutely need them to justify their authority to police the scene.

At last year's NYC anarchist book fair, the person in question didn't "opt not to show." He was told not to show, just as in years past, just as this year. He is certainly anti-survivor, in addition to being a chronic cop-caller.

So the difference is no one told KW not to show? But they are both accused of being anti-survivor cop-callers. No?

No, the difference is that the organizers of Law & Disorder know KW to be neither anti-survivor nor a cop-caller. The organizers of the NYC Anarchist Book Fair, on the other hand, know DB to be a serial abuser and cop-caller and have acted on that knowledge to, time and again, tell him not to show up. As I already wrote, the latter (DB) tries to muddy the water by comparing his situation to those that in reality are dissimilar.

Woah, I'm voting that black woman on city council once she runs, her performance was excellent.

who were the people in blue shirts with radios clipped on the lapels? the one's standing in front of the panel near the end? confused%

campus security.

They were campus security that the organizers of the event had tipped off.

How do you know that it was the event organizers who tipped them off?

We don't know that but we are angry and we hate them and it makes them look bad if we say that. Even if people aren't sympathetic to our feminist arguments maybe they will support us if we label our opponents snitches.

The moderator of the panel discussion did threaten to call the police.

That is a REALLY bad joke.

if only it WAS a joke!
how can these people who are clearly acting like kindergarteners--whining, tattling, basically yelling "seeeeeeeeee, they are being mean, they are trying to call the cops, etc..." over and over, seemingly incapable of a rational adult discussion over an article--expect anyone over the age of 5 to take them seriously???
what. a. fucking. joke.

do they not know there are real problems in portland? or do they have so much privilege that they never encounter any and can waste their lives acting like giant babies throwing temper tantrums over what other people say. they should all be arrested just so they have a chance to meet people struggling with real oppression inside jail.

The feminazis are at it again. They have demonstrated time and time again that they would rather shut down any criticism of their dogma than have information that is actually USEFUL to people. They need to be kicked out as soon as they start this shit, I'm so tired of these open authoritarians running the show wherever they go. Theres no reason to feel guilty or be a coward, just treat them like any other cop that attacks anarchists.

For any feminazi PC police that might read this, here is a rough translation that you might understand: As a genderqueer disabled womyn of color single mother survivor undocumented immigrant, I find your aggressive, macho actions at Law and Disorder to be triggering and a demonstration of oppressive dynamics. Your silencing of the speakers is being called out, and I think that you should be held accountable. The victims of your patriarchal violence are going to fight for our rights in the name of social justice for all.

For real though, I'm not a "middle-class cis white man", for those identity politicians who find it important.

These comments are so refreshing. It's about time people took a stand against misandry and stood up for the interests of men. These feminazis have been silencing the voices of men for for to long. The wussification of our society is only going to lead to even more extreme behaviour against men. Today they may be shouting you down at a conference, tomorrow they'll be lining you up against the wall. Give'em hell brothers!

#avoiceformen #snitchesoverbitches

It's interesting that you and others from your camp continue to denounce everyone you denounce as anti-survivor as also being a "snitch."

If the organizers hadn't called the cops then some feminist might have cut off Scott Crow's penis. We need to defend our brothers from our misandrist oppressors by any means necessary.

#nocompromiseindefenseofourgirth #scottcrowfanboy

Lame attempts at sarcasm are your only defense for this action. Pretty typical of self proclaimed Tumblr activists.

Know, what's really lame? Having to wrap your penis in tinfoil every morning to protect yourself from getting castrated by some Tumblr feminazi. Not being able to slap some fine hunny on the ass out of fear that some identity politician will "call you out" and demand you attend some misandrist brainwashing session (ie. "accountabiity process"). Having my freedom of speech violated by some pc fascist anytime I holler at some hott tail walking down the street. That is the real oppression I face everyday in this midandrist society and it's only gonna get worse.

#malesgotproblems2 #ladiesyoushouldbeflatteredbymycomments

Scaring away birds? Is that why your building those huge strawmen?

as the poster of the original comment you were replying to: fuck off and stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about men's rights or misandry, that's all as horse shit as "the patriarchy" and feminism. The fact that you have to make straw men to beat up instead of actually responding to what I said shows the level of intellectual depth you possess. Next time your pink-bandana clad gender-gestapo show up at an event I'm at, I'll let you know exactly how I feel about you all face to face.

The blame for this all is in the "anti-oppression" language and the attempted appearance of egalitarianism while our era is dominated. If we'd stop lying to ourselves and others that we are attempting to fix these problems when they aren't fixable by social or political movements. The micro-management from such forces are defeating our ability to resist before it even gets started.

The reality is our society is horrible and horrible things happen in this society. This is why we are rebelling. We are all victims of the horrors of this society as well and like all victims, we are tainted with the reverse knowledge. Get beaten and yes, you might be a victim, but you might also lash our more quickly, have more mental problems that create violent episodes to those we are around. Get molested as a child and guess what, the molested has a higher chance of repeating the circle of molestation. What kind of shit is that? That shit is society motherfuckers. Stop trying to fix this broken machine assholes. We are all reflections of this society. Our rebellion does not make us better than the horrors we witness. We just are better trained at hiding it.

The language of anti-oppression, the language of feminism and the language of anarchism all play into this game of thinking we can fix our lives together as we combat the forces of domination. We are tricking ourselves. This believe that we have to fix things before a revolution is the beginning of counter-revolutionary logic. This position is no longer tenable and we'd do well in rejecting it.

To handle the problems of this society is to handle them as damaged creatures. We assault, rape, molest, torture, rob and murder each other. Yet only a few instances are selected as "most horrible" while ignoring all data that shows any scene, any milieu we have is a mirror image of greater society. We cannot manage out of this mess. We *must* destroy society.

In Soviet Anarchy, society destroys YOU!

Misandry will be the death of us all.

#mustbethattimeofmonth #stopsilencingmen

I am sincerely saddened that you haven't yet died in a car accident. Every moment you continue to live is agony for everyone that has the misfortune of dealing with you.

If an (that) article upsets these people this much, I sincerely do not have any belief in their ability to do anything more than disrupt timid events, let alone "overthrow the government." Weakness masquerading as strength.

In the face of a real fight, a dedicated struggle with risks, these jokers would be crippled by their sensitivity.

^^ meaning the disrupters, of course

Seriously, when was the last time any of these people shouted down a cop, a capitalist or a politician? What 'movement' are they so adamant about purging people from?

They want to purge all men from society. The writing is on the wall people; it's only a matter of time before castration ceremonies become MANDATORY!


If the writing is on the wall, we best get our selves connected. I ain't gonna go blind. Oi oi oi!

"Seriously, when was the last time any of these people shouted down a cop, a capitalist or a politician? What 'movement' are they so adamant about purging people from?"

Yeah these feminzatis should engage in real struggle, such as dropping banners and throwing smoke bombs into intersections

More useful than this cowardly stunt.

1. Never
2. The real movement which abolishes existing conditions. They want to purge everyone from it and replace it with identity politics, Leninism, Maoism, etc. (or whatever will make them feel better about having rich parents)

Maoism? Why look so far? Obama and every other liberal are talking about sexual assault and the need for policingand defusing everything and everyone who might have anything to do with it. Remember when this was an excuse for destroying #occupy camps? Presaged by events in the 'radical' scene that predates any of the above by years...

maybe the fox news retards were accidentally right, maybe Obama ISSSS a Maoist!

onward to the multi-cultural imperialist crony-capitalist dictatorship!

While the article's polemics about the particular assault situation may be fucked, it's a decent reflection on and analysis of a definite pattern in anarchist cliques that I've seen.

I don't really care that y'all disrupted that event, but the messaging around "being silenced" doesn't really make sense--an article posted on the Internet doesn't silence you. It may take the side of an abuser or it may be defensive of an asshole. That article didn't silence survivors or cast widespread 'survivor doubt'... the closest it came to that was saying that not every allegation is necessarily true on the basis of being alleged. And that's true--anyone can say anything. It is fucked to doubt survivors, but it's also fucked to uncritically accept everything someone says strictly on the basis that they say that X did Y them.

Sometimes it's that simple. Sometimes it isn't. Talking about those latter situations isn't fucked up, it's absolutely necessary. You have to take every case on its own grounds, not according to some rule; 'The Survivor is always right!' as if that identity can be neatly and cleanly assigned to one person while the Assaulter is a singular role that someone takes on and forever embodies completely.

(Again, this isn't a comment on the particular situation in which KW's piece intervenes, because I know nothing about it.)


woah there partner. trying to bring nuance into this? nuance is just the manarchists codeword for survivor shaming and patriarchy enabling. better that this prisoners partner got silenced than the one more day pass where kw think he can write articles containing nuanced arguments.

Only 11:21am right now. Thread should get more exciting when the Portland crew wakes up and starts posting!

They've been all over Facebook for hours, so maybe not.

I have to say I am really feeling for Jenny in all this. She doesn't deserve this shit.

Why??? She choose to be on a panel with the guy who wrote an article with a critical position on peoples reaction to someone else comments about a situation involving some other guy. Ya, her partner is doing 20 years. Big whoop. And she wanted to speak about repression and informants. Do you have any clue how insignificant both of those things are in the face of the violence that KWs article inflicted? Next your going to claim the people who disrupted should be disrupted in the future for having silenced prisoner solidarity efforts.

"BIG WOOP" to 20 years in prison. Repression and informants are insignificant compared to that article.

I really appreciate this kind of honesty for how obviously it represents how batshit crazy you are.

20 years of life taken, locked away... "BIG WHOOP." Even granting, which I do not, that the article was awful/triggering/hurtful/whatever, you seriously have to be so fucking incredibly moronic to say "big whoop" in regards to 20 years of imprisonment and call informants/repression "insignificant" by comparison.

How many people read the article in the country, do you think? How many people were so HURT by it that it makes a 20 year sentence and informants worthy of a mere "big whoop?"

No amount of care, self or otherwise, no amount of trigger warnings, nothing, could ever help anyone beyond the pathetic mindset that would render such mindless garbage.

Suicide is probably the best option for you. Or at least stop going outside and pretending that you have an interest in interacting with real people in the real world...

What a delusional twit.

someone may want to read the comment again in a different light...

at least the rebuttal was awesome either way though

Pretty sure the 'big whoop' was sarcasm. You two are on the same side of the issue.

but taking it seriously and yelling vicariously through them towards actual delusional twits was really therapeutic

Misandry has poisoned their minds. Misandry is like meth. It turns people into zombies of the coming feminist apocolypes that will purge all men and cut off their penis. The writing is on the wall sheeple!!! Men are an endangered species.

#savethemales #stopthefemnizombieapocolypse

people willing to fight actual oppression instead of each other is the endangered species apparently.

oh gawd the identity politician chants were so embarrassing and cringe-worthy


" event staff hired by the conference

could you elaborate on this, o.p?

were they security guards, ushers, etc? by conference organizers I assume you mean organizer of the "law and disorder" conference, right.

and where did this take place?


Funny, we don't seem to have these problems in medium-sized midwest cities without large anarchist scenes.

Oh it's only a matter of time before the femizombie apocolypse takes over the midwest. Misandry is like a plague people! The writing is on the wall guys: feminists are literally going to kick in your doors and cut off you genitals! Not even the midwest is safe.

#thescummanifestowillliterallyhappen #nomansballsackissafe

Are you someone who is sympathetic to the disruptors trying to troll this article...or a regular a-news troll who knows identity politics stuff will pinch a nerve with anarchists?

No, I'm trying to warn all you sheeple of the incoming femizombie holocaust. I'm acting as an advocate for men. I want to protect your penis from being cut off by feminazis. You have been so brainwashed by misandry that you can't see the writing on the wall. First they came for a socialist penis and I dodn't speak out. Then they came for a jewish penis and I didn't speak out. Then when they came for my penis there was no one left to speak for me. THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL SHEEPLE!

#AVOICEFORPENISES #mensliberationfront

guy your sarcasm is not funny or incisive or on point. you are basic as fuck.

that commenter is like the anarcho-liberal equivalent of a fox news commenter.

Exact! Thesr priblems arrnt ansrchy theu artbsingster problems. Geu ohg of thr acene!

Yeah, you do. You probably just don't see it because it doesn't affect you or maybe you are the problem.

All this leftism is really triggering y'all. As a non gender conforming non-humyn shape shifting Ronald reagan impersonating lizard raccoon man bear pig i feel that all this talk about the silencing of humyn domination is silencing my beings.

I saw this "protest" online and it's just a total disgrace. Its impossible to respect people who just, in the face of contrary ideas, just bleats out slogans like so many sheep. You won't be silenced in the face of violence? What fucking violence? Being disagreed with isn't violence, and anyone who thinks it is can only be thought of as an idiot. I also fail to see how this could even be considered peripherally empowering to the protestors. When you set yourself up in a cycle of perpetual victimhood, so fragile that the appearance of contrary opinions breaks you mentally, then you simply aren't empowered. You're a frightened, weak, tiny pseudo-dictator in waiting. You're a cautionary tale waiting to happen. You. Are. Not. Strong.

Of what possible good is a revolution that fails to uplift even the people you don't like? It's useless, feckless and, quite frankly, masturbatory, just like this so-called protest/action against Williams.

I've seen better, more effective activism at tea party rallies.

They were trying to shut it down and they did.

The presence of campus security and fact police would show up due to the disruption is what shut it down. That isn't strength. Strategies that use organizers committment to non-violence and police threat are not sustainable. People will wise up to these silly games and simply ban these fools. Then what? If you want to act like an enemy eventually people treat you as such. What is the plan when people stop abstraining from attacking you? When they no longer care about saving you from the state?

They left because the police were going to show up as a result of the disruption, this is relevant.

Plus if the cops hadn't come some feminazi might have cut off Scott Crow's penis. The scum manifesto is about to come to fruition people. You might be laughing now, but it wont be very funny when your penis strapped to a guillotine. The writing is on the wall people!

#nopenisissafe #speakoutforpenises

Funny you are talking about this as a ridiculous joke when radical feminists were openly advocating it not long ago. So what are you saying: It's ridiculous? Or it's a good idea but it's ridiculous that anyone should disagree with you about it? #castrationfetish

No, of course asserting that feminism is part of some grand conspiracy to cut off the penises of all men isn't ridiculous. Nothing crazy about that at all. Do you wrap your johnson in tinfoil? If you don't you might want to start.

See the thing is you are the only person asserting that, while calls for murilation are not unknown in such 'radical feminist' rhetoric. You can't have it both ways, you are talking fucking crazy talk.

Welcome to the home of the "hysteria collective", "born in flames" et al. Identity politics is another face of fascism. Anarcho-leftists deserve what they get for enabling it all these years.

they forget to mention the part where Kristian supported the statement "we need to be critical of survivors" and the calling out of a survivor and their support team and chose the side of someone who acknowledged they did some fucked up stuff to someone and then lied and manipulated their way through the situations following that admission.

Thank you! Honestly if anyone here knew the fucked up shit Kristian Williams said they wouldn't be complaining. He's a huge asshole.

I do wish that Kristian and scott crow (who said some really triggering shit to my friend at that same event (which pissed me of partially because when I met him he seemed nice enough)) just hadn't shown up. They're both fuck faces.

STOP! You're triggering me! I am triggered by stupid drama.

Stop being triggered you fucking weak fuck. How are you supposed to be an anarchist and so weak at the same time? If you're so sensitive and so easily triggered how could you ever fight even the smallest manifestation of the state? You can't and you don't, that's the answer.

You're so strong! I want to grow up to be strong like you, insect soldier! Maybe if I join the military I can become a hardened soldier for the rev, and then you won't want to crush me for being such an antithetical example of the perfect revolutionary, comrade! Wish me luck!!!

you get strong from not growing up with a silver spoon in your mouth and your ass wiped by a maid your entire life, you pathetic waste of potential.
you get strong from OVERCOMING things you have to struggle through, not wallowing in (or worse, trying to gain validity from) your victimhood.
Everyone is a victim of something in a society that is not free.
What makes you not a fucking loser is trying to change that unfree society, not merely whining about how it victimized you.
Do you think exploited third world bangladeshi garment workers cry about being victims of capitalism? no, they organize together and fight against the systems of oppression immiserating their lives. do you think you have it worse than them? then how come all you think you should have to do is cry and whine and pout and play the victim and wait for others to scrape your puddle of useless flesh off of the floor and save you????????

in the name of every bangladeshi garment worker or other person in a much worse situation who does not merely wallow in being a victim and hope someone will notice and say "oh poor dear here's a fucking lollipop, how is your boo-boo?", a hearty FUCK YOU!

Yes the wussification of our society by feminism makes me want to punch a hole in the wall. Why can't all these feminists whining about their hurt feelings just grow a pair of balls, dammit? Men have got problems too, ya know and you don't see me whining about it. The real reason KW got shut down isn't because he promotes any sort of "survivor shaming", but it's because the people who disrupted him are a bunch of wusses. Don't people see the writing on the wall?


No it's because they want to feel powerful and the LAZIEST, EASIEST way to do that is to "confront" people with little to no actual power so you can feel self righteous and powerful. Pathetic.
Work on your self-esteem issues. When you clear those up, you'll no longer feel this need to lash out at powerless people to feel more powerful yourself.

Nice arguement adhominem bro.

You're triggering ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can't you at least give a warning you abuse supporter?

Ohmi-gawd lyke soooo triggerrred


You can grow a spine, but you can't regrow a penis. These feminazis at Law and Disorder would have cut off every penis in Portland had the organizers not called the cops. Spines won't help you when the impending femizobie apocolypse of doom arrives.

#zombiepenises #penispolice

The good ol days of spine regeneration. I remember when a gal had to fight for equality. Now all she gotta do is lay claim. Now damn effort being out in by these younger generations. The man is growing stronger at our expense, yet all we do is neutralize ourselves and reserve our contestations to in fighting factions. Only making the or is stronger I say!!!! I dream of a day where the liberation of my binary comes at the hand of material transgressions of the existing order! Nay Sayers tell me that we at destined to victomhood and we can't do it. I refute and retort that we must in irder to secure to supremacy of the binary/not binary dichotomy which my cohorts like to employ!!!

#EndSpecificity #EnforceBinaries #UpWithTheVictimRolemodel


Maybe should have been better phrased as "we need to be critical of accusers" but was it here or elsewhere, same point, many many survivors become abusers later on.

This seems then to corroborate emile's philosphy about rejecting grammars based on doer-deed-thing-in-itself-ism. Perhaps what we really need to be critical of is abuse and accusation but not necessarily abusers (as they often are also victims) and not accusers (as they are often likely victims too).


I've always wondered if the anarchist symbol wasn't in fact an upside V that was being cock blocked. V for vagina, obviously.

*upside down

You mean like with ugly snitch fat girls, fags, and the entire patriarchal establishment propping their dumbass opportunist selves up?

Yah, makes sense.

Snitch fat girls and fags I can see...but when you include "the enitre patriarchal establishment" in "propping their dumbass opportunist selves up" I then don't understand what you are saying?

Right now I'm thinking "this guy might rape people" because of your sexually hostile language. You scared that fat girls and fags will call the pigs on you after you try a rape? We weren't the ones that called the pigs. It was YOUR side that did it


Yes, that's why after I posted this a group of frat boys tried to start shit with me and immediately this comment came up. A group of white frat dudes.

You don't understand how power works and what the word opportunism means. And the patriarchal rape culture tactics of playing off of rape victims against well intentioned (feminist or feminist allied) men. Who benefits after all this?

Please, don't be silenced, but it's now our violence and maybe point your ire against the actual aggressors for a change?

That should read "not our violence" and also, techies and psychologists...
All this bullshit is to protect the barbarian harems from the rabble. You are dumb and opportunist.

In fact you don't need a creful analysis, just listen to the way they talk. Their speaking voice says it all:
Crimethinc: Monotone lifeless, defeated
You guys: Loud, obnoxious and overly histrionic.
Real Mofos: Passion Passion Passion


Threats, harassment and group stalking, misuse of state resources and power against law abiding citizens, warrantless surveillance, sexual assault, perjury and slander, falsifying official records, entrapment, criminal trespassing, criminal negligence, attempt to provoke an individual to commit a crime, tampering with evidence, falsifying evidence, racketeering, extortion, compelling individuals to commit perjury, human trafficking, sale and distribution of narcotics, nepotism, bias and discriminatory hiring practices, and more and more and more.

I find the state guilty on all charges levied against it. The evidence speaks for itself. No need for a jury.

you know who was a real passionate speaker?
you may want to re-think your analysis there homie.

The fuck is an abuser?

Is that satire? Please tell me it's satire.

So accusing someone of abuse means no one is allowed to question or criticize anything you say or do? Just trying to help you make your dogmatic batshit craziness explicit.

"We also believe that our communities and movements are strongest when we
can disagree without branding each other as enemies." yeah tell that to antifa and the white-national-anarchists

This comment clearly illustrates the problem. We have one faction viewing another as tantamount to Nazis. Those being branded as enemies are not a united faction and are not uniformly zealous about any particular position. They see this faction that is attacking them as comrades with a difference of opinion.

I am not sure how to resolve such a conflict. It seems that a resolution is not possible as long as there is a faction of people denouncing anarchists with a different perspective, refusing to participate in dialogue, and using ANTIFA style tactics against them. It seem that there are some people who see it as their role to purge "their movement" of all who have different opinions on "call-out culture." I don't know that much about the particulars of how various shades of pro-state leftists operate but this faction seems to have more in common with Moaists, Stalinists, or something like that than what I understand as anarchism. It seems that there needs to be a break between anarchists and these purity minded types.

What's with anarchists not understanding direct action when it happens to them?
Bob Black calls it bullying and cowardice, at least Kristian is gets whats going on.
I generally think Kristian isn't as big of shitfuck as people are kind of making him out be, but he did kinda piss in a bunch of peoples faces when he forgot to mention that he helped write the letter the denied the experience of a survivor and stood behind some jerk who admitted to abusing someone then lied to almost everyone involve in the accountability process that the survivor pushed for. I mean Kristian makes good points and that letter highlighted some real issues, but come on now Kristian at least own up the bullshit.

6 people protesting 4 people(one person, whatever). Is this how fucking stupid NW anarchists have become? Like seriously? Can we all grow the fuck up?

What's the long term strategy here? It seems to me their time would be better spent doing literally anything else.

The problem is that this type of shenanigans isn't only found in the NW. These sorts of actions and the ideology that directs them have been a growing trend within anarchist organizing circles for much of the last decade.

Indeed misandry is found everywhere and knows no borders. It's gotten the point where I now have to wrap my penis in tinfoil just to leave the house as a safegaurd just in case some crazed femizombie trys to cut off my penis. Tinfoil is expensive and I use alot of it because my penis is so big. I had to get a second job just to pay for all the tinfoil, but it is worth it to me to stand up to these misandrists. I recomend other men do the same because when the feminist apocolypse comes no penis will be safe.

#penisshields #tinfoildicks

come on now. you don't have to do all that. one just has to stop organizing and fighting oppression with people like yourself before your pathetic attempts at and desire for importance throw everyone around you under the bus and create awful situations that are really painful for everyone around you.

you do a great job at getting people to stop fighting oppression by witch-hunting anyone you disagree with into giving up.
way to go!

Not to be a smart ass, but how does one know if these protesters are Anarchists ?

This isn't even an "anarchist conference" like it has been described by some. It is identified as "radical." These protesters may be "radical liberals" or "radical marxists" or "radical Maoists"...we do not know.

It would be nice if this could be dismissed as a bunch of Maoists or radical liberals, but unfortunately at least several of the people involved identify as anarchists, even as insurrectionists. I think a previous commentator got it right, this is more about personal political differences than anything else. The politics of the people KW has chosen to align himself with are fucked, and the people involved in this action have opportunistically seized on this controversy as a way to discredit them. A pox on all of their houses! Being an anarchist in Portland these days is fucking embarrassing.

"A pox on all of their houses!" = more shit like this in the future. I don't know KW. I don't know if he is a dick or not, but I don't care. I do care about these crazy town antics and the bullshit authoritarian ideology behind it continuing to disrupt anarchist organizing and anarchist communities all over North America. It's embarrassing to be an anarchist in most any town with a sizable anarchist scene. It's not just Portland and it's not just NYC.

Self defense of anarchist spaces isn't authoritarian. People need to start stepping up.

Also we need more self defence of our penises. Wrap your johnson in tinfoil as armour to protest against castration attempts. Otherwise you will be very sorry when the femizombie apocalypse comes and you aren't wearing any protection. It will also makes your bulge look bigger (not that I have any problems in that department, if ya know what I mean).

#iswearmypenisislarge #sometimeswatercausesshrinkagebutiswearitsnormallyliketwicethesize

You are obsessed with penises. Something is seriously wrong in your head.

We get it... Everyone who thinks this is bullshit, disagrees with you, or might have something critical to say all have penises and everyone with a vagina is falling over themselves to validate you.

Probably "Radical" "Feminists." There seems to be a resurgence lately and they often come out of the woodwork for shit like this.

Yes and no. Half of the issue (not at this particular event but generally) is a bunch of confused kids with little history or experience to work with uncritically falling for anything that just sounds progressive.

Who will win ?!?!?

If the leftists beat the crap out of other leftists, will there be no more leftists ?

Then once they are out of the way, do Anarchists just need to kick the crap out of the dumbass right-wingers ?

We're living through the Cultural Revolution for US @s. Can't wait til the identity guard groups start turning on one another. Table flippers triggering DV survivors. All-white womynist groups calling out a popular POC scene leader.

Intersectionality as it currently stands creates too many atomized identity facades behind which anyone can hide; Intersectionalists must turn on itself and devour those who aren't intersectional enough.

I've been waiting for these factions to turn on each other for years. I think a sad possibility that may be overlooked is that despite different identity groups having huge contradictions between each other, the people involved are so dumb that they don't even notice or act on contradictions that are alarmingly obvious to outside observers. Additionally, even when there is tension between these factions, the best case scenario is that one faction wins and wipes the other out and one identity becomes more dominant and important. I'd prefer if they all shot each other down simultaneously and the result was none of them existed anymore, but this isn't how it usually works.

The one slightly positive thing that does happen is typically the crazier you are the faster you burn out and disappear forever. This was the case with the people who disrupted the crimethinc convergence and some of those same people that went on the racial purges of Chicago a few years ago. They got too wild, too crazy for their own good, flew too close to the sun, and most of them got burned out and essentially purged themselves after they had purged everyone else. Unfortunately, this isn't usually the end of it, because there's typically a next-generation that comes and gets mad again about old beefs that they weren't even around for, reviving the same practices, texts, and rhetoric in a slightly different flavor. Because the tendency was never defeated (but rather just ran out of steam), it's always at risk of coming back like cancer again and again.

It's the same old conclusion: You either fight these people now, in 5 years in a different incarnation, or you don't fight them at all and just watch the tragicomedy play out again and again. Not fighting isn't an option if you consider these tendencies problematic.

It is weird to see people from Portland Antifa as part of the protesting crowd. Do they join anyone who is protesting something ? I like how they show the spotlight on right-wing fascistic fucks in this city where I live, but do they just attend protests just for the sake of being in a protest ?

I don't care much for Kristian Williams by the way, he has writes many articles for progressive and liberal websites and wouldn't be surprised if he is a patriarchal person (conservatives and liberals are not opposed to male supremacist ideas.)

Nope. They organized this. That's why they're treating him like a nazi. That's all they know how to organize against.

Antifa didn't organize this. Having a bunch of people chant at you is hardly "being treated like a nazi". It is pretty awful that you are trying to dox people as antifa on this thread. Anti-racists get shot in Portland. It is really petty and malicious to have people targeted by neo-Nazis because you are upset with them. You may be embarrassed that some people did this, but you aren't going to literally die of embarrassment. People could literally die by being murdered by neo-Nazis. The tactic of labeling people as antifa shows that you are willing to use fascist violence against people that criticize your comrade with chants. Maybe before posting some knee-jerk response about how warranted and important these comments regarding antifa were, consider for one moment that they may not have been really principled contributions to the discussion. That actually those comments have the potential to create a very disproportionate level of retaliation against the people protesting. I mean maybe you are fine with these women getting their heads blown off for inconveniencing Kristian Williams. But if it was mistake, then maybe just own that. People can reflect upon their mistakes and totally live afterwards. I swear. This video is currently on Stormfront. Nice job, Law & Disorder by the way for letting a known right-wing troll (Laughing at Liberals guy) video tape this event.

I'm laughing so hard at this whole thing. especially since scott crow has been a force in anarchist circles promoting more respect for identity politics and it's liberal bullshit victim-worship culture of pathetic inter-personal college campus style back biting and destroying of those nearest to oneself in order to feel "empowered" while pretending to understand that it is the structural state/capitalism/patriarchy/racism that need to be addressed.

I hope you all kill each other, but I know you won't because you are all a bunch liberal fucking weiners.

I'm so glad I fucking avoid people both like scott crow and like these pathetic identity politics liberal crybabies.

I don't understand why, if you don't want to hear KW speak, you wouldn't just NOT GO TO HIS TALK???

Also, I don't understand why, if you didn't want your panel disrupted, you didn't just go outside, have a non-targeted panelist tell whoever wants to listen to the panel where you are going, and just move the panel to a different place when these idiots wouldn't stop their cultish wheezings?

Both sides, a bunch of liberal morons.

You think you're cool huh? Why don't you stop trying to be cool? This was DIRECT ACTION from anarchists and anti-fascists against this monster that justifies rape and enables rapists to have power over survivors. Because we had respect for people is the only reason we didn't treat him like the fascist he is. We will shut down any public appearances this monster will make, you can bet my word on it.

Against Fascism! For the Liberation of All Peoples!

I can't tell if the above comment is satire or legit.

So if the guy who wrote an article you disagree with is a monster, what does that make a millionaire CEO or drone pilot who bombs weddings or police officer who enforces laws against the oppressed? And when will you be shutting them down when they speak (or conduct action, which is worse than merely speaking), because I want to come?
Oh right you aren't because you aren't trying to confront real oppression you are just trying to make yourself feel powerful. I have a puppy that only barks at black people, you can come kick it in the face if it makes you feel better.

They only wants to attacks comrades (because it's easy and they won't fight back) and nazis (because they resent them as a competing marginal group and nobody likes a nazi so it's easy publicity). Try getting them to attack anyone that there's mainstream disagreement about attacking and you'll see what cowards they are.

You are a goddamned fool. You know full well that it's a wild generalizing exaggeration to say he "justifies rape" or to call him a "fascist." The reason you did this is because you are silently acknowledging that your reasons for attacking him are very weak and not sympathetic to others and you need to exaggerate and change what he's done or is in order to get ignorant people to sympathize with you. This is a perfect example of someone who doesn't deserve what you dished out to him, because if he did, you wouldn't need to exaggerate. Your obvious exaggerations only prove your own insecurity with how bad he is. You need to tell yourself lies over and over again just so that you yourself believe them and can carry on. (Remember, he's a fascist! He justifies rape! He's a monster! So anything I do is justified!) <- the internal mantra of an ideologue.

For the liberation of all peoples? Fuck that. What about the liberation of all other forms of being? Silly humynists!

Also, I thought the guy from the accountability process in question for whom the is politicos blame for defending was accused of beating his partner? Now Williams is defending rape? Because he wrote an article correctly alluding to the leftist authoritarianism perpetuated by those inhabiting the other side of the coin of the mra's?

ID politicos****

I'll take leftist authoritarianism over rightist libertarian social darwinism any day bud (they both suck tho).


for the liberation of all platonic identities and the vicious witch-hunting of every and all human beings that comprise them!
--college radicals

Are we talking platonic love or world-of-the-forms with these platonic identities? Stop me if you've heard this one: a guy walks into a cave

world of forms.

OMG YALL, (A) news is so misogynist for posting this article from the panelists. This can be seen as nothing other than collaboration with the sexist Kristian Williams. THERE IS NO SPACE FOR SEXISTS IN OUR MOVEMENT, including the internet. Posting this article promotes the silencing of victims.

We need to shut down (A) news yall! I call for a full DDOS attack until all articles posted from people i don't agree with are taken down. I will get back to you all with a list. Only my opinions are right!!!

Won't somebody please think of the children?!

not only does posting this article promote the SILENCING OF VICTIMS but it makes ALL OF US VICTIMS AS WELL.

The editors of Anarchist News but account for basically raping all of us NOW!


oh fuck it let's go look at our facebook and post cool pics from this action comrades! Victory!

oops, I made a typing error, errr, I mean, the RAPIST ANews editors changed what I wrote!
"The editors of Anarchist News but account for basically raping all of us NOW!"
should say
"The editors of Anarchist News MUST account for basically raping all of us NOW!"
I know those rapist sympathizer abusers must have changed it.

Sometimes people just need to stay the fuck away from each other.
Was that KW article some dumb-ass shit? For sure.
So, what to do? Don't organize with him. Don't talk to him. Don't invite him to your parties.

It's like, FFS, this is the problem with the closed little anarchist milieu. Like, aren't there other communities out there, communities with no KW in them, that people can go and do shit in?

Leave the survivor-silencing jerks behind. Go do something that isn't some dumb-ass talk on a university campus.

(Just to clarify, I don't think there was anything "wrong" with this action - it just seems like a waste of time)

Ideology: "Survivors" are 100% right all of the time and "Perpetrators" are 100% wrong all of the time. Anyone who questions either percentage is a rape apologist.

I take it from your comment that you completely agree with the above statement. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Now if you agree with the above statement which is completely insane by pretty much any standards you want to use, why should be take anything else you have to say seriously?

Furthermore, if you want to disagree with that assertion and say that you don't agree with that statement, then how is your perspective different from the KW article? The article is pretty tame and just suggests that the statement above isn't entirely true, which anyone with a brain can see. So the real question is, do you have a brain and if so, do you support using it?

what if he or any of the other panelists had mentioned black churches?

Remember the 600+ comment thread on the stupid book fair disruption drama?

"Which one?" you say?! HAHAHAHAHA (think I'll go kill myself now …)

Try anything and you won't make it back to Pakistan, buddy boy. I drink your milkshake.

So, a panel about law enforcement, snitching and countering it within anarchy gets shut down because one of the panelists wrote an article they didn't like.

This is an honest question. Why didn't anyone remove these people or stop it from happening completely? This is cointellpro. The people who did this are as good as cops. They have zero understanding of anarchism and if they aren't cops are just hangers on for attention.

Why wasn't it stopped? Is it because anarchists in the United States do not take themselves seriously? These people are as good as fucking pigs. Defend yourselves and what you hold dear. I am serious, this shit is a disaster.

And for the person up above who said this shit wouldn't fly anywhere else. It absolutely would not. You are right. I bet every city with an anarchist presence has a group or individuals like this in the states. We should ask ourselves why. The knee jerk reaction of "take it underground and not public" is running away.

Time to take ourselves seriously.

It seems to me there's a struggle over the meaning of anarchism in North America. Either it will be anti-state revolutionists or snivelling identity politicians. There is really no way these two groups can co-exist in the same movement. Let's face it, there's a large class of people who join radical politics so they can give free play to their impulses to be self-righteous, dogmatic, judgmental and shaming. Identity politics offers a perfect vehicle and "theoretical" justification for all of this.

Careful who you say that to irl

It's between "anti-state revolutionists or snivelling identity politicians"? I can't think of 2 more boring groups of people to go head to head but whatever it's not my head.

Radical event on a college campus completely shut down by a certain group of "activists" who dislike the anarchists and the things they thought the anarchists might say. The FBI could learn a trick or two from this certain group of "activists". Or they already have.

Time Magazine is now aware of this incident:

You gotta respect scott crow's sense of style! Black pants and a blue shirt, shitty dramatic fake sounding activists and the whole thing looks staged.

What do you guy's think? Is Joel Cox really facing 15 years in federal prison IN PAKISTAN!!!!!
Or is this whole thing an weird Orwellian theatrical production?
You may also want to check out "En Contacto con Maduro" Blue shirt blue pants seems the style that's all the rage these days...

Black and blue is the well-known color symbol for the pigs.

how fucking easy Cointelpro tactics... There's that public mainstream panel against snitching, DHS/FBI pays a handful of yuppie fascist hipster kids from the faculty to fuck it up, anarchist-style.

They pay people for fake protests these days, fer mom's sake.

Yeah it's long been known that feminism is a nothing but a cointelpro plot to cut off the penises of all the best male activists. Who needs prisons when we have crazed femizombies running around with penis guillotines? Who needs grand juries when we have feminazis conducting anti-penis witch hunts in our own spaces? The writing is on the wall people!

He probably just made a little bank. Lulz that someone watching the video can't even tell what the point was. Guess that was wasted time on the facebook page talking about the need to coordinate so it wasn't just people screaming! And now 100,000 people are going to google kristian williams. They will find his personal website. His book for sale. Interviews with him. There are dozens of stories like this The parents of these disrupters must be so proud!

Don't know KW don't care. This has more to do with plastic people herders than anything else. Individuals who can rouse up 10 or more people to do just about any sort of demonstration or production on the condition that they do it wrong. It's a discrediting machine. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire conference wasn't just a counter offensive to mark the people in the milieu willing to do this sort of stupid shit. People with basically no souls or principles down to do or say whatever for personal gain. Like put them in porn or something.

Yeah, the ironic thing about all of this is that it was meant to discredit KW, but really the only thing it accomplished was to discredit those who participated in the disruption, outside of their own insular group. There are plenty of reasons to challenge BTR, Hella503, and the groupings that KW has aligned himself with, but this faux controversy clearly isn't one of them, and has only managed to recuperate the aforementioned groups standing. Total backfire.

This shit is seriously fucking embarrassing. Really really embarrassing. It's one thing for us to be fucking retards privately but for it to become a public humiliation fest for the anarchist movement is quite another thing. Everyone involved in making this bullshit happen and those who stood around not doing anything to stop it should be ashamed of themselves. You've succeeded in making a public mockery of our struggle.

To be clear, it is not an embarrassment for the media to paint us as vandals, rioters, chaos-lovers, or anything like that. These are typical media generalizations that we can expect and at least they're communicating something about us very basic, that we're out to disrupt calm and attack authority in some way. This video going super public like this just makes us look like fucking idiots. Just look at the name of the user that posted the video "Laughing At Liberals" and that's who's depicted in the video, a bunch of liberals masquerading as anarchists shitting on our movement.

I want more media demonization, not this shit. I want the kind of fear-inducing panic that overtook the government and media in the aftermath of seattle mayday 2012 and everything similar to it. All this drama at bookfairs, conferences, and the like is letting the cat out of the bag about how incompetent and stupid we are. That's supposed to be a secret that only we know about. To outsiders we should look like ferocious attack dogs against the state, not whiny college brats (the terrible truth for the majority). If you want to be a whiny college brat, at least keep it under wraps!

Truth! Best comment of this whole thread. Unfortunately, knowing some of the folks involved, it will bring them no shame because their self reinforcing clique will find an imagined self righteous reason to dismiss it. What makes these folks problematic is their lack of introspection, and the utter contempt with which they respond to any challenges to their delusional perspective. Fanaticism has it's benefits, but when put to the service of liberal identity politics masquerading as anarchism, it becomes a guilt ridden mine field in which few people dare tread. Lines are being drawn, but they are far too narrow in scope and are only working to increase the marginalization of anarchists.

Wanna know what's really embarrassing? Having to wrap your penis in tinfoil every time you leave your house in order to protect yourself from castrations. Especially a guy like me who's penis is so long and girthy, that having to buy all that extra tinfoil is making me bankrupt. I sometimes go hungry at night because I'm forced to choose between buying food or buying tinfoil to protect my johnson from some crazed feminazi. This is serious business folks. No penis is safe from the spector of misandry.


Time Magazine will give a platform for these feminazis, but wont publish anything about the rise in misandrist violence against male penises! Men's penises are being BLACK BALLED!


activists gonna protest.
activists gonna panel.

activists gonna activist.

There is no nicer, more PC way to say this without abandoning honesty entirely. These types have been running people out of the scene, violently silencing, for years now while no one lifted a finger against them. Even some tame polemic "against call-out culture" probably steered far clear of naming any names.

Y'all got the shitty scenes you deserve for letting these little lenins take over.

Yes feminists have been running men out of the scene for years. This is especially true of white men. Now all we got left is this wussified misandrist scene, where the only men left have become literaly slaves to their feminazi PC overlords. It's only a matter of time before the feminazis unleash their real agenda upon the rest of the world and start to actualize the scum manifesto. When they strap your penis to a guillotine don't say I didn't warn you.

#endreversesexism #defendmasculinespaces

Oh the violence.... The violence of your rhetoric is triggering my survivor sensibilities. The white cis Hetero patriarchal phallic machine is encapsulated so well in your violent words. Stop victimizing me you mansplaining dude bro. You don't know what it's like to have been born a victim. I don't fucking choose this status, it is conferred!!!!


These are kind of sad in showcasing participants inability to defend their own action. I know you won't be silenced by everyones violence but you all actually seem increasibly silenced. You can't debate anyone publicly. You can't have actual engagemnet with opposing opinions. In contrast to many opponents of your actions you don't feel ok saying who you are or what projects you are involved in. You only appear capable of relating to other people if they have given you absolute authority in the situation. That seems an awful self-silencing situation to be in.

Yes, feminists have created a climate of fear and shame for men. Men are afraid to speak their minds out of fear that some feminazi will cut their penis off. I remember a time when a fella could speak his mind wherever he wanted, whenever he wanted, without criticism. Don't women appreciate anything that we have done for them? We are your fathers, boyfriends, and husbands, but what do we get in return? Nothing but disrespect and backtalk. Women systematically silence the voices of male survivors of misandrist violence in the anarchist scene and it's time we take a stand, brothers.


All this trigger violence. I remember a day when a gal could walk about freely falsely incrimating a black man of rape so long as she was white. All that has changed with the onset of the suppression of the survivor. That's really triggering. I want to return to the day where the gender binaries themselves went unchallenged and womyn could juxtapose themselves to men and assert binaries of victim essentialism!!!! The phallus of integration is coming for your children!!!!

#SaveTheFrnakeArchetype #DefendDeterministVictimhood


The pigs and snitches have exploited a flaw in this one, that is the inherently conventional, bureaucratic, authoritarian form of this panel (with panelists sitting at a table, opposite to a crowd, just waiting for any reactionary stupids to disrupt them. Then Big Brother's minions in the mainstream media rejoice out the humiliation.

In a way, the organizers kinda facilitated this by choosing such a mainstream setting and structure. Rethink your approach.

WE DON'T NEED SAVIORS! Either fight for yourselves and to liberate yourself from the ways oppression cages you, or just stop, go back to class, and become a social worker or whatever.
Fucking privileged shitheads with no real problems intent on fighting other people's battles in the most paternalistic and self-righteous way possible. Fucking losers.

We will not be silenced in the face of your violence or no s is p

We will not be violence in the face of your silenced or no p is s

We will be violence in the face of your not silenced or all s is not p

We will not be silenced in the face of your not violence or all p is not s.

Sorry the last one should read 'we will be silenced in the face of your not violence'

Y'all made the Independent in London. And Libcom's calling ya a "cult".

So, is anyone actually going to defend this action?

Yes, PDX antifa and this psycho who can't stop talking about dicks. Methinks the lady doth protest too much....

I will pay someone 100 dollars to create a house/dub step remix that incorporates the audio track on the Youtube video.

Also, I love how the people who participated in this pathetic action are coming here and writing mysoginist shit like it's going to somehow discredit the people talking shit on them. Them doing that is sort of the answer as to why anyone would be so stupid.

And also: Comrade who wrote the "this is embarrassing" comment above, you are right on and have over 9000 internet points. My thoughts exactly the whole way through.

Oh look, typical looking cutoff wearing hipsters are being typical liberals.

How is anyone shocked?

As someone who've been an anarchist for over a decade, the footage is embarrassing and cringeworthy. Not only for the comrades who have been featured in the UK Guardian and other newspapers, but for all radicals, who again have lived to their reputation of cultish politicking and infighting.

As another comrade pointed out earlier: The biggest problem is, that one part of the conflict think of the other as comrades. Misguided comrades perhaps, but still comrades. The other part in the conflict think of their opposition as the enemy.

I have lived and worked among revolutionary comrades in Europe for a number of years, and as also have been pointed out earlier, this kind of divisionary, dogmatic sectarianism isn't as readily tolerated in
the rest of the world among radicals. I don't think it's a coincidence that anarchists are much stronger in Greece and Italy, where this kind of bullshit would have been met with a swift and well deserved asskicking.

For the comrades in Oakland, I think it's time to call out these punks, disassociate with them, and no longer organize or work with them.

And for the comrades everywhere else, I think it's time to call out identity politics for what it is: A divisionary, destructive growth on the radical left, that has very little relevance outside of arch-Marxists academic circles.

I know that's an opinion shared by many of out former comrades, who've left radical politics because they've grown disillusioned and tired of dogmatics always trying to cleanse our ranks of alleged heretics.

Moreover: If we as radicals ever really desire to become a mass movement, we will never achieve that as long as we're associated with identity politics. Do you ever wonder why there aren't more POC at radical meetings and events? One of the biggest reasons is, that the identity politics that intersectionists are preaching is so far removed from the every day life's of the POC that they claim to represent.

It's not patriarchy or white peoples racism, that is limiting our reach and keeps POC and minorities far away from radical politics. It's identity politics and the insular, exclusionary worldview it has. A worldview that is only shared by other Marxist academics on the tenure track.

bravo! this is why i largely have stopped engaging in radical political action and organizing. i just don't think anyone who has dis-engaged has the energy to fight these idiots.
i say let them have it, let them run the shit into the ground and witch-hunt each other into oblivion until it's just 2 people left in a room asking "where did everyone go?"
i say let radical forms of resistance emerge from completely outside of these scenes of insanity. the forms that spring up should be much more interesting and infectious than anything that can come out of a scene that exists with this cancer within it or that comes out the other side after such cancerous witch-hunting has been battled.

the current scenes just won't be a place where new and exciting forms of resistance can spring up because people will still be so fearful and self-policing of re-creating the dynamics that we see today they won't be willing to try new things.

"i say let radical forms of resistance emerge from completely outside of these scenes of insanity. the forms that spring up should be much more interesting and infectious than anything that can come out of a scene that exists with this cancer"

I think Occupy Wall Street fits that [interesting and infectious] pretty clearly, but I think it was problematic that so few experienced anarchists in NYC were involved. In many ways NYC has been the epicenter of this sort of shenaniganary. The NYC anarchist community is particularly splintered and far from cohesive. As a result OWS suffered from the involvement of more than handful of experienced anarchist organizers and thus failed to learn from the "diversity of tactics" debate that played out in the early 2000s.

We can't just wait for the last two identity politicians to call each other out as snitches and rape apologists. These people need to be confronted, challenged, and driven out of our movements at every turn. These people may dress like us, use similar rhetoric, and carry out same banners and symbols but they are not our ideological comrades anymore than the RCP, Sparticist League, or the nationalist anarchists.

Yeah I guess you are right, but I would say that as soon as Occupy emerged, it was immediately latched onto and infected by the identity politicians pulling power trips and turning the focus from confronting the system to in-fighting and calling each other out.
I suppose the question is how do we stop these leeches who are looking for a way to feel important by making others feel small/bad from immediately finding a warm reception in the new forms of conflict that emerge outside of the activist milieu in which they fester like an infection that has nearly killed it's host????

When the feminist parasite finally takes over the body of anarchism, they will then cut off anarchy's penis. This is no joke people. Feminists will cut off your penis both literally and figuratively.

#peniscancer #girthcrisis

"I don't think it's a coincidence that anarchists are much stronger in Greece and Italy, where this kind of bullshit would have been met with a swift and well deserved asskicking."

Most relevant part of the comment. And it points in the only logical direction if you don't want this shit happening anymore. It's going to be painful and in the short-term create much more drama, but somebody has to throw the first punch, and everyone else needs to either join in or fully back those who do 100% and not allow them to be ostracized. There is no other alternative. Our backs are against the wall with this bullshit and there's no way out except forward and through these bastards. These things will keep happening again and again and again forever unless we put a stop to them. They feed on our inactivity and our lack of physical opposition.

He failed to encapsulate the cancer itself when he write his article precisely because he embodied it himself. We can say that a more fitting title, for an autobiography perhaps, would be "identity politics has cancered me" and perhaps that which could be extrapolated from this would be an understanding of the ID politico tendency to replicate the very manifestations we all bear witness to which we experience as repressive, in a microcosmic fashion.
It is easy to exploit the reigns of hyper commodification within the schema of mass culture so as to present oneself as being in opposition to structural repression when one manipulates reality and language to enforce conformity.
Hedges and Jensen should be teaching classes to these fucks about how to market texts on essentialism and manipulation. It is a serious problem that these fucks are afforded the space they are to perpetuate what they do, nevertheless part of the onus is on the other side who doesn't deal with them as the cops they are. Self righteous and self loathing they wallow about in self defeatism refusing to revolt and instead accepting and enforcing reform.

Why did Pax help organize this protest behind the scenes
online but not actually attend the protest ?

Do they get their friends do the dirty work for them ?

Look at the Law and Disorder facebook comments
and know this, Paxana Non Grata did not show their face at the event !

Pax makes great community with Leah Lynn-Plante at the Red and Black Cafe.

Your mom was at the protest.

And your mom is an authoritarian feminist (in contrast to an Anarchistic Feminist).

What happened to Leah Lynn Plante ?

and watched her do...stuff.

Facebook is the primary tool feminists are using to organize the scum revolution, where every man's penis will be chopped off. The L&D disruption is only the beginning and had the cops not been called by the organizers, no penis in the Portland Metro Area would have been spared. They would have used the penises to build a raft to float over the Columbia, then cut off all the penises in Vancouver. It would have only been a matter of time before penises would have become extinct in the PNW. Thank you Portland Police, our penises are in your hands.

#penisrafts #ppdpeepees



On May 10, over a dozen feminists protested Kristian Williams’ appearance at the Law & Disorder Conference (L&D) in Portland, Oregon. We challenged Williams’ continued harassment of a local abuse survivor, her supporters, and other political organizers. We did so because this harassment is not isolated; intimate violence and patriarchal power relations are pervasive in radical communities. We shut down Williams’ speech. Subsequently, video footage of the protest has circulated widely, but the political reasons for our disruption have traveled less far.

Williams’ supporters claim that he was protested “not for something he did, but [...] for his perspective” — in other words, because of Williams’ article “The Politics of Denunciation.” This is only partially correct. We protested because it was vital to challenge Williams and his cadre’s anti-feminist behavior and politic. The article was produced to shield Williams’ close political associates from criticism, and to justify Williams’ prior work against survivors and feminist political organizers. Even without detailed knowledge of Portland happenings, many readers recognized “The Politics of Denunciation” as aiming to shut survivors out of the radical community. Providing some background to the article is necessary.

In early 2013, feminist organizers from radical communities up and down the West Coast hosted a panel in Portland, Patriarchy and the Movement. During the discussion session, a survivor and long-time organizer, and her support team, brought up the behavior of a well-regarded male organizer, Peter Little. Little had joined her abuser’s accountability process and used it to undermine and spread misogynistic lies about the survivor (see: Survivor Support Team Statement ). For over a year prior to PatM, the survivor and her team attempted to handle this matter discreetly by approaching Little’s political associates. At the event, as a member of the survivor support team concluded her remarks, one of Little’s comrades read a prepared statement (edited by Williams) that, while ostensibly of a broad political nature, reframed the survivor’s criticism as “personal attacks” unworthy of discussion. Neither Williams’ nor his political circles stopped there, but after the event continued to harass the survivor and other women organizers, including PatM event organizers.

In this context, Williams’ article mischaracterizes and marginalizes opponents rather than fostering discussion. Williams has never been interested in dialogue; he undertook hostile efforts against the survivor without attempting to hear anything from her perspective. Following the PatM event, Williams still wouldn’t hear her perspective or answer to any critics, exclaiming “Can we not talk about this?” when the issue came up. “The Politics of Denunciation” was just another escalation, with Williams trying to legitimize the anti-survivor tactics used in Portland and provide rhetorical cover for treating survivors like enemies.

We believe:

(1) It is never appropriate to use situations of abuse instrumentally, as a weapon against political opponents;

(2) Survivors feeling failed by a leftist “accountability” process is not grounds for ostracizing and punishing them;

(3) Survivors’ decisions to speak out about the mistreatment they receive after being failed by such processes should likewise not be punished; and

(4) Women and survivors who call attention to patriarchy in our movement should be listened to, believed and respected, not scrutinized and vilified. Characterizing women and survivors as political liabilities does not represent any sort of feminist politics.

These beliefs put us in clear conflict with sectors of the radical community. The rupture in our community began with Peter Little’s hijacking of an “accountability” process to harm a survivor, but Williams widened this breach.Williams’ role in editing the anti-survivor statement read aloud at PatM (a fact which he concealed in “Denunciation”) and subsequent characterization of those critical of Peter Little as “authoritarian” and “totalitarian” creates a hostile climate for the identified survivor as well as other survivors. Williams, Little and company have expended incredible energy not only discrediting a single abuse survivor, but offering resources to discredit other survivors who come forward in the future.

We realize that confronting Williams silenced his voice. Alright. Such confrontation is resistance. Williams has used his resources and prestige to endanger survivors and women. Williams’ attendance at L&D was a slap in the face to those who have, since PatM, been lied about and harassed by Williams and his closest associates. We protested Williams because, despite his anti-police work, he engages in political repression against those who speak uncomfortable truths about his associates. It is reprehensible to vilify a survivor, and even more so to use one’s power as a movement author to lie about that vilification and one’s part in it. It is unprincipled to claim that these differences are about minor political disagreements, rather than about preconditions for collective work or even co-existence within a community. In asserting our place, loudly and confrontationally if needed, we carve out space to exist and to struggle.

-Patriarchy Haters

What movement? What community? These are just abstractions used to force a uniformity of belief among people with conflicting interests. Don't like Peter Little or Kristian Williams? Me neither really, although for completely different reasons. The solution? Don't work with them or their comrades! It's pretty fucking simple and doesn't require shutting down a panel discussing how to identify informants and snitches. You've said your peace, now move the fuck on. Fuck, there are a lot of people in Portland who I disagree with and don't like, if I were to spend my time trying to interfere with their work, it would be a full time job. There are bigger fights than making sure PL and KW can never speak in public about anything ever again.

"Women and survivors who call attention to patriarchy in our movement should be...believed...not scrutinized"

I take issue with this. The logic behind this position is that no one would ever lie about or exaggerate something related to someone being abused or raped. I don't buy that. There are plenty of fucked up people out there that do some shady shit, even lie.

ahhh "the community": The battle cry of every tyrant.

they forgot to add this part:
"PS if KW was just some nobody and not a well known radical author we never would have done any of this, because this is really all just about us."

which they themselves made clear with their last statement: "in asserting our place...."
What these fools are looking for is recognition as super cool important activist scenesters by attacking someone well-known so they can get their attention-seeking sad sack worthless asses some limelight. soooo transparent and pathetic.

you want attention? do something that warrants it on it's own merits, not because it is tearing down someone well known.
you want self-esteem? do something you are proud of that is not destroying of others' self-esteem (which for a radical would likely involved standing up to the systems of oppression in some way--but that would take actual risk....).
you want to feel important? this is not the way to do it.

hmmm, so if I follow this fascinating drama correctly, Williams helped edit a letter written by the friends of someone who supposedly lied at the accountability process of someone else who allegedly abused someone. Sounds like a high political crime! Send him to the Star Chamber to be tortured! How could we possibly let such a monster speak in public!

They certainly jump started their political careers. Sure them bleeding heart NGO's are gonna appreciate this capacity to exercise them on international news!

Now, let us assume that the totality if what 'patriarchy haters' has written is in fact true, neglecting to take up the self assignment of a monopoly on the title feminist exemplified in the message, these individuals felt that it was more important to air dirty laundry in the hopes of making themselves feel better, than to confront Williams on his own when he wasn't say next to a womyn who has a partner rotting in a cage on a 20 year sentence.
Still seems like attention seeking to me
Actions akin to this one don't do anything to cut to the core of the issue precisely because patriarchal systems of oppression aren't rooted in anthropomorphic exchanges between one another, but rather are rooted in humyn domination of the natural environment and all other forms of being.

Both sides have clearly been infected with the cancer of judeo-christian-reducto-empiricism. Both sides are being manipulated by patriarchy and domination. A reader or someone attempting to understand this or use this incident to inform and empower themselves should not take sides here. This sort of dualism represents a certain configuration of power, much like liberals and conservatives. Liberals want to tax small proprietors to death which lets large megacorporations take over everything while conservatives want to add loopholes to every tax code that again, apply only to large megacorporations and thus they are further empowered and regular people are disempowered. What is necessary is to flip the script. Tax the big guys to death and let off on the little guys.

Now, many of you might think this is dumb talking about government taxes on a anarchist site, but I am using this as a metaphor for what is going on here. How is power being appropriated through confrontations such as these and how can it be realigned to better empower women and victims of abuse?

"This gets very complicated, very quickly, as soon as the aspiring ally starts navigating through the world and discovers that there is no singular mass of black people, latino folks, or ‘people of color’ to take guidance from, and that people within a single identity not only disagree with each other, but often have directly conflicting desires and politics. This means that one cannot be a white ally, for example, as an identity; one can be an ally to specific people of color in specific situations, but not to people of color as a whole category."

—Ain’t No PC Gonna Fix It, Baby: a critique of ally politics

the same goes for allies of "survivors"

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