At Anarchist Meeting, Cucumber Sandwiches and an Alleged Police Spy

<table><tr><td>From <a href="http://eastvillage.thelocal.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/at-anarchist-meeting-... Times (blog)</a>

<p>Three days after alleged anarchist protesters <a href="http://eastvillage.thelocal.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/two-officers-injured-... amok in the East Village</a>, an anarchist meeting on Sixth Street was disrupted by a verbal altercation between an organizer of the event and a man he later accused of being a police spy.</p>
<p>Nine people were in attendance at Tuesday’s <a href="../2012/04/17/anarchists-to-meet-at-sixth-street-community-center-again/">Anarchist Forum</a> at the Sixth Street Community Center. The meeting featured coffee in paper cups, vegan cucumber sandwiches, and a polite discussion of how health care services might be organized in a future anarchist society.</p>
<p>The forum is a social event that has taken place once a month since November, according to organizers Evan Courtney, 36, who works in an import-export business, and Walter Williams, 60, a retired software developer residing in Washington Heights.</p></td><td><img title="WP always has a tail cuz he is the baddest MF in town!" src="http://anarchistnews.org/files/pictures/2012/nohopetv.jpg"></td></tr></t...
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<p>The tension occurred during its second hour when Mr. Courtney confronted an attendee named Leo, who had arrived over an hour late.<span id="more-33108"></span></p>
<p>The conversation had turned to a hypothetical discussion of a general strike when Leo asked the group, “Let’s say if these things were to take place, how would you think that the government would try to intervene? What do you think their counter-measure would be?”</p>
<p>Mr. Courtney shot back, “They’d send guys like you.”</p>
<p>For several confused minutes, Mr. Courtney refused to explain his comment further, even as Leo and others asked him for clarification. “What is that supposed to mean?” Leo asked.</p>
<p>“I don’t understand what that meant,” Leo again told Mr. Courtney, going on to speculate that the comment had to do with his physical appearance. “Like, they’d send people to discredit the movement, basically? To make it look like it’s a bunch of radicals? Is that what you’re saying?”</p>
<p>Leo, who declined to give his last name but said his nickname was “Weasel,” had arrived with two companions (“Shaqira,” and “Tommy”). In contrast to some of the more conventionally dressed participants, he wore a leather jacket, jeans, and an orange-tipped mohawk. However, he asked not to be photographed. He said he was 26 and lived in the Bronx.</p>
<p>After the meeting, while carrying leftover food and kitchen equipment to his car, Mr. Courtney said he was sure Leo was a spy.</p>
<p>“That was the N.Y.P.D,” he said. He said he was certain because Leo’s remarks were “open-ended leading questions having to do with use of force which is what the N.Y.P.D. intelligence guys look for. That and they came dressed in the wrong costumes.”</p>
<p>Asked if alleged undercover officers often come to the monthly meeting, Mr. Courtney said, “No, I have a feeling it was only because of the disturbance yesterday,” referring to Saturday’s showdown at the community center.</p>
<p>Discussing that incident, participants in the meeting argued that anarchism, as a school of thought, encompasses more than just window breakers. Mr. Williams told The Local, “This was an anarchist discussion about anarchist issues, not to say that the people who did that are or are not interested in this kind of political analysis or discussion. Anarchism is really about finding ways for people to get together to live together without coercive authority.”</p>
<p>Wayne Price, 65, an <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1084771.Wayne_Price">author of two books</a> on anarchism, agreed, saying “People have this image which they’ve been fed of anarchists as violent; and it’s true, as I said, there has been a minority, for a long time, of people who are very violent, and in effect buy into that image, and act out, thinking, ‘that’s what it means to be anarchist.’”</p>
<p>He added, “I’m certainly not going to, you know, critique any particular action. Certainly anything the anarchists do is nothing compared to the violence that states do, countries waging wars all around the world.”</p>

Comments

The good news about old anarchists is that they're going to die sooner than later!

and they help anarchists appear as a weird ideological sect rather than a rather sophisticated riot machine.

Literally no one thinks anarchists are "a weird ideological sect". Literally everyone thinks anarchists are a rather unsophisticated riot machine (well, except when they are described as "professional rioters"). Everyone from the authoritarian left, liberals, the media, etc. thinks all anarchists are about is the riot.

Well good.

... Are they wrong?

Yes. Emphatically so.

Nuh-uh.

Yes-huh.

>>the good news
>and they help

Explain that shit

it's nice to be able to plea 'good intentions' in court.

LOL! Sometimes the trolling here is just too much.

This site and the open hateful trolling does more damage to the anarchist movement than a thousand cops attending meetings ever will.

When the hell will the organizers here wake up and do something about it?

what are you talking about this site is hilarious

IGTT 7/10

Just don't read the comments. News articles=sometimes pertinent. Commentary= usually immature potshots, everyonce in a while a heartfelt reflection but the rule=snarky.

I think it would be hilrious to institute a 'if you don't have anything sincere/nice to say don't comment' week on @news. I bet we wouldn't last 5 minutes.... with "friends" like these...
'

You got trolled.

Na bro genuine is the new snarky. Get with the program!

Now I'm confused about my gender.

Bro-ness is nongender specific, and as sincerity is now the litmus test for political collaboration obscure post-ideological theorists are out and speaking to ones lived experence is in. (Incidentally gender confusion is good for this as it tends to lead to self reflection as long as you don't navel gaze your into a state of nonexistence.)

Not sure if you've reached unsustainable levels of jadeness?

If you comment to stories and can no longer tell if you are being sacarstic, you may be due for a perscribed period of observation and meditation...

Someone was paid for writing this? Incredible!

Yes Wayne, we're only violent because we subscribe to the edgy image of coolness.
Not like society offers anything to be pissed off about.

there are lots of ways to deal with being pissed off though. i don't think there was actually anything untrue about any of what he said. other than probably more anarchists are at least pro-violence than not, but i guess it also depends who you really consider anarchist...

Yo, before you anon commenters comes down on Wayne: this is the New York Times. Anything they claim was said by Wayne, Evan, or any other anarchist should be regarded with much skepticism. Mis-quoting and/or taking words out of context is what they are all about.

it doesn't seem uncharacteristic, though...

Why I am Not a Pacifist by Wayne Price
http://www.anarkismo.net/article/4700

"We anarchists want a world without war or any sort of violence. But to get it, there will have to be a social revolution to completely change society, overturning the ruling class and its state. We will try to keep revolutionary violence to a minimum, but the vicious, brutal, nature of the capitalist class will require at least the threat of mass violence. "

I am no fan of Wayne's version of anarchism, but in this piece and others he makes it clear that he's not opposed to the use of violence, nor would he be inclined to label property destruction as violence.

I'm the anon who posted the little rip on this Wayne Price guy.
I know almost nothing about him. Just being a wise-ass, no actual disrespect meant.

I'm also this much of an asshole when I'm not on the internet. True story.

KILL ALL COPS, BURN THE PRISONS ... IN EFFECT BUY INTO THAT IMAGE!

This is a strange little article. What was the New York Times doing at this meeting anyway? Were they checking up on things after the attack on Starbucks? Were they expecting some sort of tactical meeting encompassing violent acts? Do the New York Times drop into every 9 person anarchist meeting? That being said this could be situation where Evan and Wayne had a bit too much caffeine running in their system. Its just strange that the article exists in the first place.

Who needs a police spy when the police can just read about it in the NYTimes?

Also, "vegan cucumber sandwiches"... myeh.

All of this is stupid. Crazy individualist punks who want to fuck shit up vs. the old organization types, who cares! lets get over this beef so we can move on. But lets remember that you shouldn't call someone a cop, informant, etc, unless yo know for damn sure. This article just makes it seem like an anarcho in fight. Which is lame and probably what it was .

There is no way to know for damn sure. I say ASSUME everyone is a cop and act/speak accordingly.

BURN NYC TO THE FUCKING GROUND.
-up the kpbsfs movement

yes okay except then we have to build all the shitty infoshops, restaurants, bars, and concert venues

Zing! Anarchy in the USA is such a fucking joke, and you nailed it.

Where is Anarchy qualitatively different? Or are you just talking about what country has more riots?

"Rioting produces all wealth."

If rioting produces all wealth and the United States is wealthier than Greece then the United States has more riots.

QED

learn2grammer? and wtf is "qed"!

Then has numerous meanings.

1. At that point in time
I wasn't ready then.
Will you be home at noon? I'll call you then.

2. Next, afterward
I went to the store, and then to the bank
Do your homework and then go to bed

3. In addition, also, on top of that
He told me he was leaving, and then that I owed him money
It cost $5,000, and then there's tax too

4. In that case, therefore (often with "if")
If you want to go, then you'll have to finish your homework.
I'm hungry!
Then you should eat.

Than is a conjunction used in comparisons:

Tom is smarter than Bill.
This is more important than you might think.
Is she taller than you?
Yes, she is taller than I.

Are you reading the same sentence I am. You know she used "then" and "than" correctly, right?

well wtf is "qed" than?

quod erat demonstrandum-- which was to be demonstrated

still not making any sense. whatever. lern2communicate NOT alien8.

ohs, so you mean you are a super dude bro with mad stacks from daddy and you can't have anyone sound smarter than you.

im not a bro, dude. check your privilege and don't ASSume gender.

nonsense is better than no sense at all.

you are. but, I'd suggest not assuming anything! For realz. just because it alien8s you, doesn't mean anything, except you whine a lot.

"QED," is really common, especially on the internet.

im a super dude bro with mad stacks from daddy and can't have anyone sound smarter then me.

Then has numerous meanings.

1. At that point in time
I wasn't ready then.
Will you be home at noon? I'll call you then.

2. Next, afterward
I went to the store, and then to the bank
Do your homework and then go to bed

3. In addition, also, on top of that
He told me he was leaving, and then that I owed him money
It cost $5,000, and then there's tax too

4. In that case, therefore (often with "if")
If you want to go, then you'll have to finish your homework.
I'm hungry!
Then you should eat.

Than is a conjunction used in comparisons:

Tom is smarter than Bill.
This is more important than you might think.
Is she taller than you?
Yes, she is taller than I.

I think the point is that rioting can't produce all wealth if the wealthiest countries don't have the most riots.

Yeah, and if natural resources produced wealth, all the wealthiest would be in Africa.

Everyone knows that old white men are the number one source of wealth.

This comment, and its potential when taken to the extreme, interests me.

Since what you say is true, the US is not the source of its own wealth and so the QED above fails, should we see rioting as another exploitation of the workers/earth? In Greece they riot and produce wealth and the US, or capitalist class or whatever, takes that wealth for its own?
If so, rioters should go on strike until they get the wealth that they produce.

i think the real focus of the article was the vegan cucumber sandwiches. thats the real issue at hand here.

Come the Revolution, the first ones against the wall will be those who refer to them as "cukes".

Pass the veganaisse I gotta dip my cukes.

grapeseed or safflower?

I prefer Nayonaisse

I only read @ news for the jokes.

i read @ news for the news. I only comment on the jokes.

I only troll @news because I hate anarchists.

@n00z

Yes.

moar liek @sn00z, amirite?!

No.

yes. yes you are

Although perhaps less intuitive, I'd like to suggest an alternative to the "police spy" accusation that goes around.

I'd like to suggest that it be widely assumed that everyone is a police spy unless there is some good reason to assume otherwise. The idea that so-and-so is a police spy is to imply that other people are not.

Which means that a police spy might throw the accusation around to deflect attention from themselves. If, as I suggest, one supposes that everyone is a police spy by default, then accusing someone of being a police spy is simply redundant - ok, a (presumed) police spy accuses someone else of being a police spy. Yawn.

In other words, there are implicit levels of trust that are created with this line of logic which are dangerous. Everyone is a spy, and if they're not spies they're potential informers (which is to say, they ARE informers, by assumption).

So unless you want to say something to a group of police spies and informers you probably shouldn't say it.

BTW I'm a police spy and informer. Which is to say, you can't prove otherwise. Right? Trust no one.

How are we to get anything done if we inherently assume that everyone is a police spy.

paranoid much?

I'm more cunning than even the police spies, and can spot them after a short conversation with them whereby I let slip falsities which suggest that I am a heinous criminal psychopath. Stuff like I attack and anally rape elderly priests, defecate on public transport etc and watch their reactions. If they are appalled and avoid me I know they are cops,,,simple.

Lier lier pans on fir.

Wuh!! About the priests?

Answer the question.

Aha, you're a cop, it always works,,,and so the interrogation begins,,,

Look here pal we're just trying to help you. Why don't you just cooperate with us and answer the question?

WTF! You think I don't know how the good/bad cop routine works. As for your partner, tell him to prove that the priests didn't give their consent, and the way public opinion is about priests, it'd be thrown outta court, anyway, I may have used a mask, but wait, I just admitted to these actions as a ploy to identitify cop spies, and it worked, now get off my case....Anyway, the priests offered me money afterwards,,,SO HOW IS ANAL INTERCOURSE WITH A PRIEST A CRIME IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY IF YOU ARE REWARDED FOR IT?

and this, kids, is why you should never ever ever talk to the police.

now, since you should also assume everyone is a police, this means of course that you should never talk at all.

ok?

Okkk

i sincerely hope this is all just one person talking back and forth to themselves...

Didn't you look at the picture?

-the troletariat

Lol, schizotroll the new dialectic

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