TOTW: The Election

  • Posted on: 8 November 2016
  • By: thecollective

There seems to be two different attitudes regarding the election. Denounce it for all the world to see or simply ignore it and let the date pass you by. What attitude do you take and why?

Assuming that "business as usual" wins this particular election rather than "something like fascist" will business be as usual or will there be some kind of substantive change in the next 2-12 months that we could notice? What will that change be? Is a civil war possible? How about 100 days of coherent legislative agenda?

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Comments

Burn it all to the ground

I like to watch it like watching riots or car wrecks! Watch and laugh and have a beer!

Watching CNN right now and it's all so exciting I think I might shit my pants! Always nice to have extra ammo to fling at the TV!

Yeah, uh... feels like watching the Superbowl. A Holy moment of the Spectacle. Full of Star Wars and shit.

Why only two choices? Why not a third option for those of us who don't support it and aren't going to vote but still find the whole thing super-interesting? Obviously this stuff is relevant to most of the issues anarchists (claim to) care about, but it's also a pretty fascinating look at how these systems in general function that raises some serious questions about strategy - are we better off with a well-run and progressive technocratic nightmare, or a far more reactionary despotism that isn't quite as good at its job? And how do we deal with the reality that attacking one will almost inevitably aid the other (and/or be seen as nothing but an attempt to do so)? These questions go well beyond today's election.

Maybe it's time to put aside some of the cliched anarchist taboos around elections and admit that it isn't necessarily treason to pay attention to this stuff, or even to participate in some limited, strategic way. Or, at the very least, it might be time to go beyond simple slogans into some real detail about what's so wrong with these elections. People are really really pissed off right now, they'll listen.

Western capitalist democracy has a deeply ingrained historical tradition of the choice of leader being a polarised duel between 2 representatives, its not like the capitalist system has a complex multi-faceted choice of policy and agenda to need more than 2 choices, and if there are multiple candidates this only increases the possibility of government by a minority which thereby negates the democratic principle of majority rule, in other words, capitalist democracy is a farcical dictatorship of the privileged.

It's not about taboos, you idiot. It's got nothing moralistic. It's about WHY the fuck should anarchists care about this spectacle when the majority of proles are already cynical about it. What is there to gain advantage from, or defend, or support? Politics serve only the interests of its politicians and the interests that pay them. This ain't taboo it's just making a fool of yourself, by behaving more political zeal than the citizens themselves.

You can tell it isn't a taboo because of how calm and rational people get when you question it.

Srsly... it's not because someone somewhere finds a behavior to be nonsense and gets irate about it that it's gotta be the expression of a taboo-like moral restriction. Imagine if Flat Earth Theory gets to gather some wind under a Trump regime, wouldn't that be understandable that tons of rational people get pissed off about it, and I also wouldn't see where they'd be building a taboo?

but I'm not. :p

And so:

The argument put forth in "After the Election, the Reaction" by CrimethInc. seems compelling to me. So yes, in the next 2 months, definitely some shit - but I wouldn't predict anything more crazy on the part of the "right wing" than what the post-Brexit scenario looked like, except with Yankee flavour (i.e. guns, so maybe at its craziest something that looks like Bundy occupying a cabin in a national park).

I don't think there's gonna be real "change", just right-wing flare-up. And I wouldn't predict it going on for too long.

What could be a real change, in the next 2 to 12 months: how about World War III. Not outright saying it's gonna happen, but It seems to me that the chances are higher with a Clinton win than a Trump win. Obviously that's based or a pretty shoddy predictive metrics - no pundits to trust, including me. Anyway, any lingering catastrophism I might still have going on, I am pretty sure world war would suck hard.

Civil war ain't gonna happen this election cycle. Lol, maybe after the next one? The boring thing is probably gonna happen though. And it will be exceedingly uninteresting.

I'm playing 40k, cause shits looking kinda grimdark.

I would have put my money on Trump to win 12 months ago if I was a gambling person and had any money to throw around. I'm an existentialist, the currency I gamble with are life's experiences. Whether a certain creative action offers surplus joy and harmony within a system is my wager. Conspiracy theories aside, the Pentagon runs the US, this is no real secret amongst the intelligentsia such as myself, the big global picture, the script which has already been written, has Russia as an ally in a war to eradicate Islamic radicalism and a trade war with China, a revitalized armament industry replenishing the US coffers with Russian cooperation in a dual pact of global resource acquisition. "I told you so" would sound a tad petty if I was to harp about my skills in prophesy.

a momentary blip while the financial system rolls on with the monetization and weaponization of data.

it should be clear by now that the arena of politics posed no challenge to the technocratic financial system, but became a mangement strategy protecting its flows. it's no longer about producing value but trading it.

and all this really leaves out the greater influence: externalities. production and destruction are happening at the same time.

our narrow focuses really take us away from realizing none of this (us) happens without the living space that all creatures share.

what brand is the land? what ideology land and space? the mental gated communities are not reality. fuck them all.

a greater question than the election is what daily life will continue to look like for so many people walling up in screens, surrounded in projections of an unreal world, and projecting onto it (as i am doing alone with a screen right now). as humans do not have a god's eye view, i don't think systems of control can ever be complete, totalizing projects (there are no nouns, only verbs). yet, why is the response of self-imprisonment seen as the prefered path to come?

Looks like Trump is going to win. Stock markets around the world are diving. Canada's immigration website just crashed. If any anarchists want to cross the border, I could smuggle you in.

Peeps in the US, God have mercy on your souls.

He rustbelted the bitch.

Thanks for the condolences.

everything we look at we turn into a 'machine'. over here, we are going to construct a factory and what is most important to us is whether it is going to produce Cornflakes or Cadillacs. but that is not what is most important in our physical experiencing. what is most important to our physical experiencing is how we are transforming our relations with one another and the land [the relational medium we share inclusion in], ... hence 'the [transforming, relational] medium is the message'.

we think of 'the machinery of government' and 'what is this or that sort of government machinery going to do'. is it going to produce clinton-type actions or trump-type actions?

the bigger picture is that the relations among people and things are going to be transformed.

the "substantial change" that will come out of the election is not in terms of 'what the new trump machinery is going to do', ... the substantial change will be that the relations that underpin 'political parties' will be transformed, international relations will be transformed, business and political relations will be transformed. the transforming relational medium is the message, not the actions and results of the 'machinery of government'.

Great....
if Trump wins all radical actions will be chock full of annoying liberals. FML BRB.

...Or a crowdsourced feature film where, say, someone who sits across from James Bond, who has a gun pointing at them in a dark hotel room, let's Bond know, in the process of Bond questioning them as to who their 'operatives' are, that he's obviously just a marionette for the plutarchy...
At one point, the script goes something like; "His majesty's secret service... Quite the fancy name for an armed thug, murderer and a traitor to your people isn't it? Well you can kill me and frame me as some kind of lunatic out to Destroy The World, but you''ll just be slowly destroying yourself. You know what your queen represents, don't you?"

Then Bond shoots and kills them.

Incidentally, David Holmgren of permaculture is a self-described anarchist. That's good company.

Plural anarchy was what humans evolved with for most of its history, and is what humans will continue on with if they (are to) survive after the shit hits the fan and the dust settles.

"Behind Boetie's thinking was the assumption, later spelled out in great detail by David Hume, that states cannot rule by force alone. This is because the agents of government power are always outnumbered by those they rule. To insure compliance with their dictates, it is essential to convince the people that their servitude is somehow in their own interest. They do this by manufacturing ideological systems..." ~ Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

Time to organize. Time for Permaea.

~ Caelan

That might at least be a silver lining on this night. The demographics of female Trump voters and non Hillary voters speaks to this.

Yeah also the pro-Trump Latino turnout. A profound silver lining would be if he shattered the whole mystique surrounding the elite politician or ruler, a reality show something like the living with the Osbornes, filmed inside the White House with all the emotions and flaws exposed and unedited. He would really win the hearts and minds of the people and a second presidency if he did that, the future of political campaigning, not that I really care, just for the lulz.

This is like Stalin is now our ally after we defeated Hitler-y...she has still earned fucking ****ing though, if she won't take her cyanide.

" Americans always do the right thing" - Winston Churchill

Did you mean to write --- ",,,, still earned ****ing nothing though ", or are you ****ing drunk?

win-lose competition is an abstract binary logical concept in which the two options are mutually exclusive.

to say "Trump wins White House in astonishing victory" is to employ what Nietzsche calls 'the great stupidity' of subject-attribute grammar.

the outcomes A and B are not 'mutually exclusive' as in binary logic when they are branches in a white water rapids you are canoeing in; i.e. the landscape is the third element C which leads to the interdependence of A and B through C (as with two storm-cells in a common flow).

if you are familiar with one branch where one has crashed time after time, it is not the attributes of the alternative branch that actualize your opting for it, but the lesser certainty of getting wrecked.

note that, as always in the physical reality of our actual experience, epigenesis [the inductive influence that actualizes and shapes our actions] is in a natural precedence over 'genetic expression' [the local visible material manifesting].

it is one thing for the hucksters wearing sandwich boards and standing on the banks of the respective branches speaking in terms of their 'winning' of a binary win/lose competition [this is bullshit] but quite another for the people in the canoes and the media to validate such binary bullshit.

The worst things we could do right now are: (1) panic, and (2) retreat into a rage spiral.

We do however need to reorient our analyses and tactics to accommodate the fact that neoliberalism is probably over, and the way we've been doing things for 30-40 years has got to change. This is a new world of nationalistic capitalism, ecological obliteration, societal division, and expansion of the state system.

The institutional side of things is horrible, but it was going to be that either way. It's now just a different kind of horrible.

There is also a massive new wave of transformative popular movements. The future lies with them, not the state system.

This is the time to really refocus our attention on grassroots self-organisation, pressure politics, and direct action. It's also the time to really replace the left's ethos of moralising cynicism with one of radical hopefulness.

We need to offer people a positive alternative instead of just pointing out everything wrong with how things will be for (at least) the next four years.

Don't know if I'm prepared to say that neoliberalism is probably over. I think it's just as possible that the US will get frozen out of the global economy and the rest of the world will keep on ticking without them. In any case, it will remain to be seen.

I think for once I agree with you. The neoliberals won't stand for the Trump version of anti-globalization anymore they then did for Syriza... The State is not, nor has it ever been their only weapon. We'll probably see a lot of capital flight, as well as Trump and his supporters realizing being president doesn't make him master of the universe.

No. What I predict is that the New World Order alt-right crowd are going to get the very globalist NWO they feared so much... not coming from the Soros Empire but this time from their right-wing savior Trump, as an ally to Russia.

Instead of having TPP/Transatlantic Union neoliberal horror show, with a new dangerous Cold War on the background, you'll be getting a much bigger and not really nicer BRICSUSA... eventually with Moscow possibly becoming the new imperial global center (canned laughters I know I know, but that'd be one of the eventualities that would make sense, especially with the Silk Road 2.0 project which will have tremendous effects on Eurasian geopolitics).

Soviet Capitalist Russia now doing to the US pretty much the same the US did to Soviet Russia at the turn of the '90s. Russian hackers being more disciplined and having a more grounded "moral order" just proves the NSA wrong about a very old principle of warfare. The big bucks or the immense tech equipment don't matter as much as the morals of the troops, especially when they are fighting on a same front than Snowden and Assange. I see a lot of yuppies and wannabes serving Silicon Valley for prestige and paychecks, but who does it with their hearts and minds? Elon Musk was the new hope, but will he even be able to keep pushing his grandiose plans that looked like PR for the Democrats?

Answers in the next season of "American Hellhole". Watch the premiere for free on Netflix! Or maybe not.

I was actually thinking along the same lines (the part about a US-Russia alliance). If the beast were to move it's belly, where would it put it? Europe is still in crisis. Britain did what Syriza was too scared to do. South America or Africa? Very doubtful. Really only leaves russia or asia. Trump isn't a cold warrior like the neocons or the neocons-lites (Clintons, Obama), a US-Russian trade alliance doesn't seem too far fetched.

This would be Kissinger's life-long dream. With the two superpowers seeking economic solutions, and State communism being out of picture for good, it's a perfect time for all of them to unite, under the corporate logo of collectivistic capitalism, thus resolving their petty disputes and form a superstate of incredible collective might.

...so not very good prospects for individual and collective autonomy and anarchy though. At least not during the early years. This opens to a question about how we should orient our focus for the years and decades to come.

ballin. lets get started. see you in new york. and everywhere else. i guess this is what's after control societies.

also thanks for your wonderful and articulate comment that was made helpful to me.

Oooh, does this mean we get to riot at the inauguration??? Yes!
Bash the fash

Chomsky urged people to vote for the lesser of two evils:

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/noam-chomsky-why-people-should-vot...

Lol....is there anyone left who still thinks Chomsky is an anarchist?

Yeah. The only ones contesting it are they anarchyists. You know, the not really anarchists. Anarchism and anarchists are all from the traditions of revolution stemming from the 19th century. All these neo-Stirnerists that are attempting to remake the wheel where their narrative can take hold need only interact with the real world to understand that it is social anarchism that speaks to the people, not a self help guide to life, which you can pick up a book next to the Witchcraft section at any bullshit store that sells crystals. Yes, I'm saying that Stirner and Nietzsche sell snake oil to losers, who lap it up and never interact with the real world to see all this power they wish they had actually come to fruition. Keep hiding in the basement, losers.

i interact with the peoples, most of whom wouldn't vote for something like good or evil for these are matters for belief and lifestyle.
our spiraling revolution doesn't stop. make total destroy.

Yes, why choose the lesser of the two evils when you can get the good people who reject politics?

Assuming this person isn't talking about "the left" I agree with this comment. Individualism of the stripe people are advancing now is total liberal horseshit. Read about the Individualist Anarchists from the 20th century and try to tell me you're anything like them you fucking hacks.

time to break up with the left entirely. The politics of failure have failed. Stop trying to make them work again.

Yes. The anarcho-tankies of /r/anarchism.

I just popped Xannies to take my mind off of it because I was anxious for the future. I see the mayhem following this repulsive election as an open opportunity to unite and rally more people to the cause against the state and Neo-liberalism. I think that the Bernie-Bros and the Greenies as people who may be easily persuaded to take a more militant stance against capitalism.

I think you might be too lost in the stale left-right binary to see it, but Trump might actually be the most powerful force against neoliberalism at the moment. He's a bigot no doubt, but the forces at play here are more complicated than diversity vs bigotry. I don't like the guy, his environmental stance is pretty much non-existent, but he does have an element of nationalistic socialism to him, and not nearly as racist as the Democrats want you to believe or some alt-rightists hope for. He does NOT have the emotional hatred of Mexicans, for example, that Hitler had for Jews. It really was a terrible strategic move for the democrats not to go with Sanders, they basically gambled on using identity politics to beat out the anger against neoliberalism and lost.

Expect riots in Oakland tonight. PROTESTS PLANNED IN BAY AREA, CA in Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose and possibly Berkeley.

Sweet. Hope you fuck shit up. Just keep in mind that affinity groups make communication flow more easily and help people watch each other's backs. Stay safe and fight the power!

I'm doubting that in the present context, riots will change anything in any positive direction.Let the Democrat's paid henchmen and other liberal dupes play black bloc and get the State repression... for as you may know that's part of what the managers are expecting.

If you learned anything from Adam Curtis's documentary, you'd know that power-building (or destroying) has all to do with confusionnist tactics and subversive strategies. You'll be having way more success by fronting with some big PR joke like "Anarchists For A Great America", or "ORANGE is the New Black" and collect the goods. On my part I'll be among those waiting for the final blows.

But please consider how the context is fragile and you can end up playing in the enemy's hands like in your worst nightmare.

Some solid points here but, if riots are going to happen (which they probably will regardless of whatever perfectly legitimate criticisms might be aired against them), then I would rather that those who choose to participate do so with enough strategic intelligence to maximize their own effectiveness and keep themselves from harm. From an egoist perspective, it is a matter of acting from a genuine desire to act rather than a sense of obligation; and, if you choose not to act, that is entirely your decision and no one who is worth paying attention to will judge you negatively for it.

What the fuck happened to you? You're breaking character?

I never was one to pass up an opportunity to subvert people's expectations.

Well, it is the epicentre of post-liberal activism, so I s'pose this is to be expected.

Although I'm relieved Hillary lost I'm not entirely happy about Trump. But Trump is the lesser of the two evils given that Hillary if elected would have created a no fly zone over Syria forcing us into WWIII with Russia; a fact that can't be argued against. This is not going to be an easy 4-8 years for minorities, gays and women but hay at least the world won't be going up in a mushroom cloud. That's one way of looking at it with a positive. It's kind of that situation where we are damned if we do damned if we don't. But what would you rather have nuclear WWIII HOLOCAUST or small wars all the other promises Trump made? At least Trump is against free trade which is a pretty liberal position to have and very populist at best. That's another positive in my eyes. I'm still in favor of socialism if not total communism and think I will always be an anticapitalist. Hillary was no saint. They don;t call her the darling of Wall Street for nothing, The woman has Goldman Sachs and WAR MONGER written all over her face.

That's why I feel slightly more at ease with Trump's election, assuming that he won't just be bluntly double-crossing on his sympathy for Putin. The war games of the neo-neocons were getting troubling for a while, and I know there are people from the establishment's cults and societies -likely within the Democrat party and the CFR- who have a different brand of "accelerationism", if you know what I mean. While I agree the civilizational machine has to be brought to a stop, a thermonuclear war would be one of the worst ways to do it.

BUT the instant financial mayhem that resulted from this election carries some hope to that regards.

are you by any chance white, cis-male, heterosexual, not seen as "disabled" and have career opportunities?
if not i am really sorry.
but your comment has privilege written all over it so i take my chances!

fuck clinton.
fuck trump.
fuck you.

By any chance, is this a moralistic PC guilt trip from a self-righteous anarcho-social justice warrior? At the risk of answering my own question, yes... yes it is. Been there, done that, heard the concerto from the world's smallest violin. And I no longer care about anything they have to say.

I will repeat, privilege outside of perspective and preference does not exist. There is no such thing as aperspective positional privilege in itself. Not for Prince Harry, not for his phenotype.

Oh FFS. Anyone who actually believes that HRC=WW3 hysteria and RT/counterpunch propaganda in general needs to atfu and leave geopolitical analysis to the growwn-ups. It's pathetic, it's embarrassing and it just handed the election to trump.

It's funny to be putting RT and Counterpunch together, but no, there was really a threat by the Clinton-led faction of the Party to go hard against Russia, and this is in continuation of the Bush-era neocons, allowing Senator McCain to be more active in US foreign policy than any senator never had, signing deals with Ukrainian neonazis as well as brutal jihadists in Iraq that may have been tied to ISIS. Muslim Brotherhood was also very closely connected to the Clinton Foundation. All this is factual. Clinton was a far too dangerous asset to be put in charge of the entire US military.

As terrible as Trump may end up to be domestically, his foreign policy has all the signs of a much needed "détente", and the end of this sick support to Islamic fascist mercenary gangs. Yes Assad is a fascist despot as well, but there may be other ways to take him down than supporting people who're at least as bad as this guy, and serving the imperialist agenda of the Saudi criminal family.

attention its going down:

"
I can’t be­lieve people are hold­ing demon­stra­tions today. What in the world is the point? Trump won. Now is the time to es­tab­lish emer­gency re­sponse struc­tures for ra­cist and state at­tacks, and plans for what to do if Trump ac­tu­ally tries to round up Muslims and un­doc­u­mented people. Get real, folks.

Hold­ing demon­stra­tions today just shows that the left is not a polit­ic­al move­ment which aims to change so­ci­ety, but is es­sen­tially a nar­ciss­ist­ic self-help move­ment pro­jec­ted in­to the so­cial realm.
"

Amen. Do that at all costs, and leave the protests to the foolish while you concretely prepare for the worst that can happen.

The skies above Oakland will be glowing red tonight. People are getting ready for the sun to go down. I can sense the anger in the air. Seattle and New York are swelling in anti trump numbers. Turn on the News right now.

I work for the state.

I want to see what's going on in Anti-Trump land. Anarchist websites are never, ever block by the states Great Fire Wall.

I want to go to far-right websites to see their take on the anti-Trump "intifada" and they are all blocked.

Huh, I wonder who is actually in power?

What far right websites are 'blocked'? What do you mean by 'blocked'?

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