TOTW: Should we stay or should we go?

  • Posted on: 20 February 2017
  • By: thecollective

Following up on last weeks topic on transhumanism is a simpler question.
Is it in the interest of anarchism for humans to leave and settle upon other planets than earth.

On the pro side is the idea that exploration, while the seed of colonialism, is also the seed of something like freedom. Any place else will not have the institutions and anthropology that this planet does.
Any place else can represent the tabla rosa [edit: tabula rasa] of a fresh start, a blank piece of paper, a new beginning.

On the con side is the idea that until we are free we will just bring the same set of problems with us wherever we go. Sexism, racism, xenophobia, the colonial urge would all inform any moon or Mars base
today.
How far would we have to go to be different people?

category: 

Comments

That's what it really comes down to. To die like the dinosaurs or build to the Asomovian light.

I prefer terrestrial thanks.

Is there anything you aren't wrong about?

Fully automatic gay space anarchy for everyone!

Except Zig.

Zig getting hotly close to being Milo, or one of his flaming homo supporters. If you look at every single talking points he's been having for years, it fits all so well...

- always jumping in to gate-keep anarcho-nationalists and other neofascists, as legit anarchists or at best "Leftists" (like that so-called Leftist Keith Preston).
- promoter of NAMBLA-like reasoning on boylover's "freedum"
- gay misogynist, who like his sidekick LeWay, can't talk of feminists in a non-pejorative, non-resentful manner.
- pro-patriarchy, Ancient Greco-Roman style
- takes the side of police rhetoric, down against them Black "thugs"
- denies White supremacy while defending its social champions
- morality which denies anything to be "wrong", aside than any discourse or position coming from the Left.
- being more generally a gigantic asshole and above all an attention whore only rivaled by the usual greasy, stinky basement dwellers.

2/10

Regarding Milo's comments though, this was not controversial to say back during the height of the sexual revolution in the 1970s particularly among the 'queer' radical crowd. Foucault and others argued this and more, Milo just happens to be agreeing with a point that is generally more found on the radical left. If anything many on the right wing camp will disown him for those comments. I don't give a fuck about the guy, however I do agree with his point that pubescent human beings are NOT children and sex between adolescents and adults should not be an issue, certainly not in a more libertarian reality.

Also his experience corresponds with Bruce Rind's findings which show that on balance these sexual encounters are not traumatic.

Wow, SirE has his own archivist.

New paths in passivity for US anarchist subculture stinkers.

That's turtle island anarchist to you, petty booj. Elitist europeans are a plague upon anarchy, a pox upon blocs.

Transhumanism last week, space colonization this week...what the fuck a-news

they discovered the idiots of reddit who can't distinguish between video games and real life?

It's a general statement about exploration, curiosity, & escape. Why are you misconstruing it?

Not the OP but it seems obvious, no? Using the word "colonize" in a way that seems to equate colonizing Mars with colonizing the Americas, and even to imply colonizing Mars would be problematic for the same reasons. It's a loaded term used in a provocative way which happens to be absurdly wrong.

In what way? Colonialism, to establish a colony, is the term. Conflict is not necessitated here—colonizing Mars would present none, similarly, colonizing, say, Antarctica would present none beyond bureaucratic territorial claims.

Colonialism as leftist use it, one of their trigger words, is a double standard obfuscation of terms. It assumes some sort of primal purity to exist which was ruined by invaders or colonizers. North America was not free of conflict, nor invasion, nor war, nor territorialism, prior to influxes of Europeans. Many civilization existed in the Americas for thousands of years prior to European contact, practicing their own forms of colonialism, as happened in Europe proper for millenia, as has happened in every continent. The smaller tribes or subpopulations of the Americas were not free from this tendency either. Territorial conflict is common throughout history & found beyond the human species.

Thus, what is "absurdly wrong" about this term and its use, in this context?

That's a pretty dumbass representation of what "leftists" mean when they say colonialism … perhaps it would help if you didn't rely on the shittiest representatives of a theory to explain it?

It's pretty accurate.

Accurate like when you stuff clothes full of straw and shoot arrows at a stationary target? Everyone has to start somewhere I suppose. Maybe some day they'll be ready for the real thing!

Your hyperbole & insults don't invalidate the original point. The anon was accurate.

Space travel is only possible through extreme division of labor and resource extraction. This & various other lifeways dependent upon aerospace & other high-tech are doomed to perpetuate the conditions which have created it. Now, where did I put my plane ticket to Exarchia?

you do realize that your ticket to exarchia is only possible through extreme division of labor and resource extraction, right? or were you being "ironic"?

Do not counter his fundamental point. There is a lot about productive based society that we can like for its own sake. Does not take away the problematics.

i wasn't countering the point, merely pointing out another, deeper way that it applies. not unlike how elitist environmentalists jump on jets to fly all over the world to promote their "green" agenda. think a little deeper, folks.

they were being sarcastic, fool.

The Mormon dream appeals in this context. An entire planet to yourself for exploring, no idiots to deal with. To an extent one might attempt to manifest this on earth, but with 7 billion people, you're bound to be interrupted by a road, an aircraft overhead, or private property at some point.

Antarctica might be worth considering, although it is filled with exiled Nazis living beneath the ice sheet, so antifa may not like it. Hard to throw sucker punches through a couple miles of ice. And no lamposts to pull down. The barren places like Antarctica & other deserts are open real estate. It would require resourcefulness & robust technology to survive comfortably there.

You might become dependent upon outsiders for things which the desert can't provide, becoming the equivalent of desert nomads & traders, repeating the eons of history that those regions already produced. Productive land, verdant land, produces different cultures. These edens & shires tend to get invaded, conquered and parasitized, though. :(

The same technology which would allow extraterrestrial homesteading will also permit human life in the earth's own alien zones—its hot, cold, or aquatic deserts. Or more generally, life on a post-human-plague denuded planet. Mars or future earth will likely present similar challenges with similar technological imperatives. Compared to pre-industrial life & biospheres, we already manifest this now.

There are many ways to break away from a status quo, many different ways to consider what frontiers & terrain are. I've travelled, lived in territorially & culturally foreign places. I've lived different ways amid the familiar. Both are forms exploration, travel, & exodus. Living within buildings or being homeless; being a yuppie, a rebellious radical, or a gang-banger, are all quite different experiences, but can all occur on the same street, for example.

My experiences with escape & freedom lead me to believe these things are myths, or at least heavily misunderstood concepts. Still worthy of pursuit, perhaps inevitably so, but will confront with difficult disappointments. When I think back to times I did not follow an impulse to run away, I consider the question: into what?

Thank you for this post. It reminded me: I am compiling a list of the Top Ten Anarchist Milieu Insults. Perhaps the rest of you can help me complete it. Ordering subject to change.

1. _____
2. _____
3. Bad analysis
4. . _____
5. Not relevant
6. _____
7. _____
8. _____
9. _____
10. Problematic

1. leftist
2. fascist
4. privileged
6. cis-male
7. hater
8. egoist
9. fucktard

Quote-unquote anarchism in the U.S. is strictly for the Dungeons and Dragons crowd.

D&D is an interesting angle to take. While too uncommon to warrant its own entry, I think #4 represents the sentiment well enough.

1.
2. alt-right
3. bad analysis
4. armchair
5. not relevant
6. troll
7. liberal
8. egoist
9. leftist
10.

Pending ratification:
problematic
basement
ham sandwiches
Dungeons & Dragons

ham sandwiches?

"Quote-unquote anarchism"

you do realize that "anarchism" is both easier to write and clearer, don't you?

you saw the name, and still didn't register the satirical nature of the post?

Maybe they're doing speech-to-text on their segway. It really saves time when you're on your daily commute to the Google bus.

People who posed this question should go. Rest of us can stay.

The "tabla rosa"

Tabla is a kind of drum. Rosa is the Spanish word for pink.

So. Who hasn't danced their fingers upon the pink drum from time to time?

What the fuck is this shit? In one of the most turbulent times in modern history, with arguably the greatest opportunity for anarchist initiative in our lifetimes, and the collective wants to talk about trans humanism and space colonization. Y'all are wack.

It's actually quite a bad time to be frank. Reactionary nationalist ideology carries the day among the counter culture. Also, terrestrial vs techno space travel existence is a discussion to have ANYTIME as it cuts to the bone of what humans actually want. Anarchists and Anarchs would do well to have well thought out positions on this issue.

We have been confused by science fiction. Fiction in general lies to us, persuading us that princesses can be saved, that endings are happy, conflict can be resolved in an hour, and stories end on the last page. This is not the case: stories go on, endings are usually permanent, conflict lingers in confusing and contradictory ways, and princesses... They have their own plans. As for the fiction that is science fiction, its particular lie is to convince us that that something totally different is ours for the taking. There need be no transition, no context, no politics, no compromise, just a blink of an eye and we are there. Pure imagination. It is the motivational speaker, the preacher, promising that all we have to do is believe.

There is a huge gap between the fantasy of science fiction and the reality, not just logistical but existential, of traveling to, living at, and making a new home on another planet. There is something both escapist and Marxist about the idea that merely putting ourselves into new material situations will make us different, better people. Instead of playing with the toys that might get our bodies into another gravity well, we would do well for ourselves to confront whether our heads are capable of being elsewhere. How will we keep from replicating the society we live in now? Is that even on the agenda of company like Space X or projects like Mars One? Those projects seem to be about toys, reality TV stars and a strange story about how the Military Industrial Complex owned space travel before it even began.

Precious metal extraction, advanced chemistry, metallurgy, physics, and industrial-scale production are among the ecological tragedies that are necessary to leave the earth. Science fiction has few conversations about how much resource extraction we should (or can) do for fantastic purpose. So few words about fairness, balance, justice, or why (or how) we have created a place so g toxic that we feel the need to leave.

I Science fiction itself has been known to ' raise the question of too much information. Fredric Brown’s short story “The Weapon” is a case in point. While to speak of this is controversial in a culture that values knowledge as the tool of liberation, there is something to be said for embracing limitation. While some argue that extreme power (the power to destroy the world) should only be in the hands of reliable, trustworthy people, as anarchists we know that power corrupts, and one response is to limit the power that any of us have. Pushing the button is not something that should be wrestled with every day: no amount of bureaucratic protection keeps accidents from happening or could save the lives of the people ruined by the stress of the responsibility. Pushing the button is not something that should be possible.

No one can deny that new places do allow us to think new things, but without confronting and changing the things that make us want to leave here in the first place, we will merely be trailing the worst kind of pollution throughout our presumed refuge/escape.

There is an argument that progress has been a story of the consequences of human behavior getting more and more dire, that the terrain of our actions has only gotten bigger and the consequences of our actions only more decisively lethal to more and more life. Will we only stop when we can destroy galaxies? How far can our destructive reach actually get before we pause and look at ourselves?

The answer to the question posed must be obvious to anyone, at this point. Is space the place for our dreams to run free, for our lives to finally gain the kind of significance and leeway that previous generations have taken for granted? No!

- from Is Space the Place? (No)

Furthermore that Van Halen belt might be tougher to overcome than we think... Which is another part of the lie of science fiction.

YES

Every child has experienced the wonder of a sky full of stars urging them to flight. Looking up one imagines every sort of adventure and delight just a giant leap away. Then, the promises are confirmed by movies that demonstrate, spectacularly, that the future, possibility, and even spiritual completion are as close as the nearest star. If we are heirs to Manifest Destiny then our future is a Galactic Destiny.

For anarchists the hope represented by the stars is even more specific. In this world, where illusions more convincing than human relationships transform capitalism to a way of life, our ideas do not seem to have the room to sprawl out and be tested. Every inch of this planet seems to serve pre-existing gods, most of them armored against exactly the kinds of proposals we recommend. Try out neolithic ways of life? How about gender equality and/or destruction? Passions and Desires? It seems like all of our experimentation is constrained to our own heads and to moments of crisis. This limits our options to active dreaming (when we confuse dreams with the real) or to being adrenaline junkies (who become irrelevant as soon as we can't run a six-minute mile).

New planets, space, represents a resonable response to this conundrum. We can align ourselves with Utopians of other flavors and together, we can leave this place that seems to have no time or energy for ex, perimentation about what exactly we mean by, and hate about, society.

Beyond a critique of the Space/Military Industrial Complex there is an exciting (but troubling) new scene of people (companies and entrepreneurs) attempting to reach space on the cheap and without the governmental bureaucracies that have always been seen as necessary to reach space. Additionally there are other countries that are re-inventing space travel: at the time of this writing there is a Chinese rover on the moon that isn't being discussed in the Anglophone media at all. The grimace-and-bear-it necessary to work with these people/companies is probably more than most anti-authoritarians can take but the work is there and anyone involved today is participating in the early stages of a future worth living in.

Science Fiction, as a category, demonstrates what willful anarchistic sorts of people are capable of (at least in the imagination of their authors). The Mars series by Stanley Robinson (among many tbh) demonstrates that a new world beyond States and authorities of Earth will be a place of more openings and different possibilities than we can imagine when reform, compromise, and negotiation seem to be the alpha and omega of life on this planet.

This question "Is Space the Place?" proposes science fiction. It assumes we have the power to act freely and that with this power we begin to ask questions about how we will inflict ourselves upon the world. Will we be bound to the agreements that make sense in the context of this world around identities and histories of colonization, will we make new agreements based in the ultimate lack of space (of a breathable atmosphere for starters), or will we create a new set of ethics and values once we leave orbit that cannot be imagined while one newton of force presses down on us, every day, all the time.

The answer is obvious. Yes, yes, YES! As wild-eyed Utopians we have always seen the stars as our birthright, but as sober scientists of the future order we must put our bodies where our mouths, and minds, are. If we can't create that which is worth living in here, we must go there! Space is the place for us to spread our wings and put our ideas into practice.

PS: Note that these essays are from a UK organization called the Association of Autonomous Astronauts. They were founded' 1995 with a five year mission to establish planetary network to end the monopoly by corporations, governments, and the military over travel in space. One aspect of the project was infrastructural mapping, identifying the satellite hardware that links up the world communications network. But another was what Konrad Becker calls "escape": "Cracking the doors of the future means mastering multidimensional maps to open new exits and ports in hyperspace; it requires passports allowing voyages beyond normative global reality toward parallel cultures and invisible nations; supply depots for nomads on the roads taken by the revolutionary practice of aimless flight."

The influence of the Situationist Iternational should be apparent.

- from Is Space the Place? Yes

" there is an exciting (but troubling) new scene of people (companies and entrepreneurs) attempting to reach space on the cheap and without the governmental bureaucracies that have always been seen as necessary to reach space. "

yeah, and i'm sure they can get to space without the devastation and and imposition on the rest of life required to actually make such an endeavor feasible. but then again, that does not seem to be an issue for all the technophiles and transies. that level of technology is quite analogous to capital, in that it requires the domination and acquiesence of others. which is why anarcho-transhumanists (and the like) are akin to anarcho-capitalists to me.

Trouble is that spooks will be programmed into all technology and therefore transhumanism is actually an escape from the inner space of transcendental experience and an abandonment of human desire.

PS. “Without going beyond his own nature, one can achieve ultimate
wisdom.”
Lao Tzu

This whole external escape culture industry, like the transhumanists, object to the idea of internal psychological metamorphosis which explains why psychydelic drugs are banned, because they are an instant method of opening the door to internal universes and resolving the systemic social diseases of the modern industrial age, whose masses are tranquilized with prozac as a quick fix, like the Soma in Huxley's Brave New World, where it is a crime to be thinking about empathy and the inner tranquility which exists in everyone. The hippies messed it up, they made a party out of LSD which could have been respected and ceremonially given in the presence of experienced veterans in a one off session opening the gates to the individual creative and empathic centres of the psyche and curing dysphunctional tendencies, hippies dancing badly and chanting puerile sexually obsessed slogans would even make Jesus angry, and so they banned it.
I have a smoke and look through my medium strength telescope some clear nights and find myself discovering just as many diverse and beautiful worlds inside my space as there are out in space. Dali didn't even need LSD, he was already through the door and breaking all the shackles of the modern Western paradigm.

If you don't like the TOTW you should definitely suggest one. It's pretty clear they don't know wtf to do to get a good conversation out of us.

Casey Brezik is an anarchist prisoner and has written about anarchists and space, has opinions, and wants to talk about this stuff with people. https://kansascityabc.wordpress.com/2016/05/07/anarchists-in-space-casey...

Here's a sample:

My aim here is to present us with an alternative. I think this is a reasonable alternative to a successful revolution, at least in terms of probability. Both are known as “moonshots.” It’s said that it’s wise not to put all of your eggs in one basket. Well, here’s a chance for us to explore another basket.

After this TOTW is over I'll be sending him all the comments in this thread, so give him something worth reading if it's in you.

Casey obviously hasn't got to the stage of mind over matter, that's what prison cells tend to bring out in folk, ideas of great escapes. If his ideas are not really metaphorical musings brought on by his confinement, by real molecular materialist dreams of space travel, well, it may help him pass the time in a fantasy world to kill time, and I fully understand and empathize with that method of handling reality, but if only he knew of the incredible worlds that he has in his cell which he could visit every night, his time would go very comfortably indeed.

PS I don't wish to sound pompous, I've done 3 years myself, its more of a compassionate call to an alternative methodology.

I find Casey to be more entertaining than most anarchists tbh. It doesn't actually matter to me to what extent he's serious. And always interesting to see how different, or not, the perspective of an incarcerated anarchist is from those a bit more free.

do you know if Casey has read this book yet? It was released recently -

Is Space the Place? Yes / No
[ http://littleblackcart.com/books/culture/is-space-the-place-yes-no/ ]
Two comments (yes / no ) from this thread are the introductions to their respective parts of the book. Certainly a great read for anyone curious about exploring this TOTW further.

I have to wonder how many of the folks crapping on space travel for being "escapist" or "colonialist" apply the same standards to their land project aspirations...

Are you serious? Land projects can be done now and are a lot easier to accomplish, as actual space travel isn't able to be done now at all, except to the moon and space stations and that isn't what these people who have dreams of space colonization are talking about. Its not even clear that it will ever be reliably done in our lifetimes or ever. Also despite how terrible agriculture is for the environment, extracting the materials and developing the technology for space travel of that magnitude would be far far worse. Not to even mention that the moment that kind of space travel is developed, all the authoritarian powers of the world would beat us to space colonization and even if some how in some dream world anarchists would be able to independently extract the materials and develop the technology for space travel it doesn't mean that the moment the authoritarian powers develop it they wont come find us and destroy us as we would be in their way. so just because you escape the earth doesn't mean we would be free.

Actually not. The recent breakthroughs in EM drives and space sails are incredibly interesting, especially for the balance of cost efficiency they're offering.

BUT if we can't make anarchists break free from the prisons or manage to build a network of antiauthoritarian sustainable eco-communes that aren't another colonialism for white privileged people, then howmare we supposed to even figure out how to get to orbit?

Or is it like one of those unreachable goals aimed mostly at having a PROCESS that males us get our shit together?

actually not what? Space travels possibility? Are those two recent technological devices making it possible to travel very very very long distances in a really really really quick amount of time? or helping a space ship capable of withstanding the journey of not only the speed, but the distance? if not then its still not possible for us to travel to other planets yet and who knows when we might be able to. I mean for right now humans can only go as far as the moon. And that's not even taking consideration of what kind of materials are needed to live on a particular planet, if one is lucky to make it to a planet that ends up being exactly like earth then fine then you wouldn't need anything to crazy, but if you are unable to get to such a planet and have live on a less livable planet than earth than you would need to have the materials and the technology to build a completely airtight livable facility. and then one has to question whether its desirable to only ever experience the inside of a building (which i think would be absolutely miserable). but in the case of the earth like planet, there is the very real possibility of spreading illnesses that could kill many of the native species and also the problem of colonization, of essentially forcing ourselves on to the species the planet.

Also unless those recent developments and any future developments are made out of magic and good thoughts the ecological problem still exists.

You also didn't respond to the threat of mainstream science of the authoritarian forces of the world most likely getting to it first and stopping us from going into space or in a crazy dream world getting to it at the same time as us or after us and coming upon us and destroying us. basically the solution isn't just running away, i mean we could go find an island somewhere on earth to go live on as well, but that doesn't mean that our Anarchistic commune would be safe from Authoritarians coming and kicking us off one of their island territories or from an island a rich person happens to own or wants to own. Its not even a question of being able to make it happen, its a question of whether or not it even makes any real sense to entertain it in the first place. I just don't think it makes sense to even entertain it, I mean i like this planet and want to continue living here, i just don't like how human civilizations have made life on this planet terrible, but also like i said before escape is not going to save us.

Well that's the point with the whole escapism (which space travel kinda is, but there are many more pervasive and popular forms of escapism), of wanting to flee due mainly to not be able to rationally and assertively confront the fact of our existence in this society, and not developing a good enough culture of struggle against it, so that the revolt itself becomes more appealing than the escape.

All I've seen since summer 2012 in my area was the most disgusting wave of acquiescence to the dominant order I could have thought, right after Germany in the '30s. It's so depressing. Yet these new Boomers, the millenials, keep on behaving like everything's alright and the rev on its way. Like the 34th capitalist revolution, in fact. So this shit only makes me wanna further myself in some arts or history (or arts history) university department, and gather some dust 'til 20 years later I can be an armchair anarchist too! Or see ya in a few centuries or something! lolcry ;-)

I'm the OP who posted the land project question. Knew it was gonna touch a nerve, heh. Putting aside arguments about the practicality of spaceflight for now, I'm glad I did. Anarchists have an amazing capacity to generate 3-foot-long critiques of anything *except* our own ideas and plans. Let's face it: most land project schemes couldn't get less likely to happen if they involved Alpha Centuri. They're escapist as fuck, and actually involve "colonizing" space which is already home to living things (and usually people). Folks got mighty upset when some of us tried to bring this up during the land TOTW, but have no problem taking swipes at this stuff because it has nothing to do with *their* dreams.

Is obviously a bourgeois born mistake. You are the land essentially. One has to indigenize oneself to the surroundings that one finds affinity with. You can't exactly do this with outerspace as it is born mostly on frontier fetishism.

I forgot to say how your definition of "escapism" is completely off the mark, or really too inclusive. To go on starting a communal eco-living somewhere in the countryside where nobody cares is not escapism, that's rebuilding a relationship with the real world, or setting very different conditions for a concrete interaction with the world. Escapism involves a flight, usually delusional, away from it.

It's the fanboy pipedreaming...
it's me playing Skyrim for too long at night (where I could instead be having sex and play games with anarchoids around, you know)...
it's multitasking on several screens the whole day long... it's hopping around the world, or multi-city travels, assuming you're rich enough for those +1200$ economy-class tickets every year...
it's investing, yes, on space travel or genetic research on a cure against mortality, if you're even richer than that...
i.e. it's the contrary of engaging with the real world that is in front of your face, where you are.

But you can't escape while embracing a social context. Creating conditions for a life, in the here and now, within this world -EVEN IF IN RUPTURE WITH IT- doesn't mean escaping it. It's "dealing with it"... exactly the first thing escapists WON'T do.

...was a reply to 11:02

And additionally, there is indeed the potential for a new-same old colonialism in land projects. It's not about land projects in themselves, but in the way they are carried, by who, for what purposes/intent, etc. you can't compare some White ecofascist land project as there are in some places in northern US, with the anarchistic eco-communes you got in Western Europe.

By putting all land projects in the same basket, you feel like equating the ZAD in 2012-13 with the Malheur "resistance" a year ago.

wtf is a "land project"? unless one refers to their life as a "project", the word makes no sense. as someone above said, living on rural land and attempting to create a life in symbiosis with that land, is called a life.

yeah, true. I just ain't too much in semantics hair-splitting... A "project" does feel business-like and in itself devoid of all the wilderness of life. Sounds too protocol, too formal, too cybernetic, in this very lame German hausprojekt fashion. Perhaps this mindset is a reason why many "land projects" have split apart over the years.

Should I devote my acres to food forestry, or buy a contract with Monsanto for some amaizeing profits. Have you seen the size of the mansions & combines a humble farmer can afford to purchase these days?

They don't own the machines or mansions outright, maybe after 20 years of contractual obedience, and then the machine is worn out, like the land it has worked and the people who toiled upon it, and the house is a poorly built and flimsy structure with an extravagent veneer and still under mortgage, because the climate altered and reduced expected quotas, and the farmer only has peace of mind if he took up transcendental meditation during the tornado season.

Shorthand for "I want to shit in a bucket and then grow vegetables with my own shit". Now perhaps you see why they came up with a coded phrase?

^reply to q: WTF is a land project?

i am the one you are replying to, and believe it or not, i shit in a bucket. but i wouldn't grow food with my humanure, at least not for several years (while it cooks out all possible pathogens).

You must be surrounded by buckets,,,,,, *dryreaches*

jeez... the whole point of shitting in a bucket is that it is easy to move and dump. as opposed having to move your outhouse once your hole is full (esp if you had to dig it by hand). that can be both efficient (store it where the fuck you want) and practical (wanna leave it for someone?)...

Ouroborical on a longer time scale perhaps, but ouroborical nonetheless. Moraouroborical, we say. Om, and amen to you, son of Atum in Christos' light, and unto you an evening's night. *stoic jazz hands*

...is to bring them back to the source of this pathogenic shit.

i.e. stock up your shit in an sealed bucket for about two weeks, then deploy at entrance of target area, wearing a gas mask of course.

Oh wait no! I was suggesting ontic doer-deed activities... forget it keep the philosophy text walls on the problem of universals according to a gay pedantic hair-splitting medieval monk. Sorry for this brief moment of anti-intellectualism, my dear singularities!

Whatever, still,,,,,,,,,, *dryreaching*

Vegetarian and vegan feces has a pleasant and sweet odor compared to the feces from heavy meat and fat eating folk and can be added to the garden a few weeks after being passed, just saying,,,,,

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