Which Side Podcast – Alice Carnes & John Zerzan

  • Posted on: 19 July 2016
  • By: Anonymous (not verified)

Which Side PodcastEpisode 193: We talk with Alice Carnes & John Zerzan; Anarchists, primitivist philosophers and authors. We discuss Anti-Civilization, Activism, Green Anarchism, Primitivism, Nihilism, Post-Modernism and Much More. #fsd

Listen here: whichsidepodcast.com/john-zerzan-alice-carnes

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this episode should be titled "when our elders become cranky." listening to them "feel sorry" for nihilists and people who don't have kids, who see no future for humanity... good grief, just change a few terms and you could be listening to your (grand)parents who're voting for trump. the condescension and lack of ability to engage with people they disagree with is astoundingly offensive. shouldn't be surprised i guess, but what a disappointment. jz complains that no nihilist he's spoken to has been able to give a coherent definition of it -- as if it's the responsibility of a person who believes in nothing to define nothing. sorry for getting a little zen. bellamy, where are you when we need you?

I mostly agree but you fall into the same trap as jz, though in a much less ridiculous way, when talking about a definition for nihilism. Nihilism, at least in the anarchist context, is not, as jz straw mans, a philosophical position. It is an orientation of a negative persuasion, a tool used to encounter the world, and especially in this context, a tool used to encounter anarchist ideas. Once situation has been understood nihilistically, it is then possible to act in different ways depending on the desires of the individual. There are many ways to use nihilism and being a nihilist does not accompany many of them. Most anarchists are concerned with active nihilism, rather than passive. As it is a tool, using it looks different for each individual.

A nihilist response to this podcast might look something like this: A nihilist orientation has benefitted my personal life greatly, I love some children and not others, I plan to have children in a few years with my partner, and I can't imagine not loving them. Therefore, any naive statement lacking any nuance such as "nihilists can't love kids" should be rejected outright as an essentialization of a group of people. It's worth noting that I'm not a nihilist, but JZ would almost certainly consider me one due to the fact that he considers pretty much any anarchist influenced by nihilism a nihilist even if they've explicitly stated they aren't one.

"Nihilism, at least in the anarchist context, is not, as jz straw mans, a philosophical position. It is an orientation of a negative persuasion, a tool used to encounter the world, and especially in this context, a tool used to encounter anarchist ideas. "

Classic politician talk. (i.e. "Blowjobs are not sexual relations"). Nihilism is not a philosophical position, it is an "orientation". lol. It is a "tool" LMAO.

You nihilists are funny when you squirm and stoop to Orwellian doublespeak.

Nihilsm does not make sense as an orientation compared to say cynicism or anarchy.

"As if it is the responsibility of people who believe in nothing to define nothing."There you have it. Nihilism means nothing. Are you nihilists happy in your not so quiet resignation and admission of defeat?

H is following in the footsteps of his gods jz and kt, creating the same straw man argument in the same bad faith way. He quotes from the first poster yet completely ignores the disputing of first post by the second poster because the second post can't be used to prove his point.

I dunno, as someone with kids, maybe so I can teach them not to believe in dumb shit like JZ's greenwashed leftism.

What's "greenwashed leftism" about JZ's writing? Makes no sense.

Its ironic, but all emotions and hypotheses aside, haha, AP just seems to be Paleolithic primitive communism, minus a cohesive common spiritual superstition keeping it together, unless one includes apocalyptic millenarianism as some kind of morbid negative cult. Existentialists would not stoop to this reflexive binary reaction to eminent doom.

Typo --- immanent not eminent

The nihil-ism part was so painful to listen through geez!

It seems to be the center target of all his diatribes lately. *JZ: These damn kids and their nihilism!*

Then why don't you call in to the show and correct him. Or write him, or email him.

Maybe it's because you're not sure what nihilism is either, but just pretend you are.

Similar questions the media prodded Occupy folks with: "Yeah, but...what are your demands?"

Nihilism is a pathological transitional phase and really is mostly misunderstood when looked at on an individual level...defending it or attacking it is as futile as trying to be a good person or saving the earth. See you on the other side :)

Nihilism is too broad a term, it has as many variants as there are the social/cultural pressures which mould it. Existentialist-nihilist is more accurate and universal as a descriptive. For example, an existentialist-nihilist from EastLA is the same as a Pygmy existentialist-nihilist in the Congo,

Nihilism is just pathological.

No.

Definitely a psychological symptom of dysfunctional relational dynamics which can be cured with a healthy dose of sex and cocaine minus the Freudian narrative. I cured my nihilism with the poor man's version i.e. frenzied masturbation and beer, which left me in a very existential state of mind ;)

Ok let's go this game... Be Zerzan For One Day!

Suddenly get a cult following on the West Coast, a permanent job as teacher at a top-rated university for bougies, have interviews with VICE, countless fuck opportunities with lecture groupies, and always be sure to have dozens of entries in a comment section whenever your name is featured in the thread!

Nihilism is what you get when anarcho-primitivist critique is raped by eco-extremists.

Nihilism is a maximalist orientation used to hide ideological bankruptcy. Usually it isn't the first nor last step for a maximalist to identify as, but it is always a step taken when a maximalist's criticisms outpace their ability to answer them. If the maximalist is able to find answers all the dark pretense is dropped and nihilism fades away in favor of some abstract orientation that is even more obscure or they realize they were wrong all along and vote union.

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