perhaps the attraction of deleuze lies with his siding with the anti-dialectics of nietzsche.
supposing one has a clash of view with another. the creative energies of either or both sides could be invested in proving the other side 'wrong'. but in doing this, one abandons affirmation of the many different aspects of one's own unique experience-based perspective. as Deleuze says in 'Nietzsche and Philosophy';
"slave morality from the outset says No to what is 'outside', what is 'different', what is 'not itself' and this No is its creative deed" (GM I 10 p. 36). This is why Nietzsche presents the dialectic as the speculation of the pleb, as the way of thinking of the slave: the abstract thought of contradiction then prevails over the concrete feeling of positive difference, reaction over action, revenge and ressentiment take the place of aggression."
the positive aspect of a clash with other is in knowing oneself in a new and different way thanks to such engagement; i.e. one can know oneself better through such engaging. it doesn't have to be experienced as a laborious, negative pissing contest. As Deleuze says citing Nietzsche;
The question which Nietzsche constantly repeats, "what does a will want, what does this one or that one want?", must not be understood as the search for a goal, a motive or an object for this will. What a will wants is to affirm its difference. In its essential relation with the "other" a will makes its difference an object of affirmation. "The pleasure of knowing oneself different", the enjoyment of difference (BGE 260); this is the new, aggressive and elevated conceptual element that empiricism substitutes for the heavy notions of the dialectic and above all, as the dialectician puts it, for the labour of the negative. It is sufficient to say that dialectic is a labour and empiricism an enjoyment."
the beauty of the 'circle' [and we 'do circles' informally] is that by sharing our respective rich and unique life experiences, the participants get to understand themselves better. the debating forum, on the other hand, doesn't care about harvesting all of the unique differences but is a degenerate dialectical pissing contest that progressively 'highgrades' the reigning champion truth through darwinian win/lose competitions that eliminate unique differences [the unique differences are the baby that is tossed out with the dirty bathwater of losers].
in a 'learning circle', the participants do not hold up score cards after each round to determine who will be eliminated and who will continue to the 'next round'. every contribution is valued and none are scored. the notions of 'best view' or 'worst view' have no meanings since everyone's perspective is valuable in contributing to a continually enriching, holistic understanding.
meanwhile, environments like internet forums enable instant registering of 'likes' and 'dislikes' as satirized in 'The Orville', 'Majority Rule' where everyone can register an opinion based 'like' or 'dislike' for any individual's behaviour or views and the public can see on social media, a video replay of people dissing the individual which has an echo-chamber effect drawing in more 'dislike votes, piling up on the 'masterfeed which may elicit even more dislikes so that the individual may hit a dislike level set by authorities as a threshold which triggers an invention to 'correct' the individual [lobotomization or removal] to give him a disposition that will be docile and non-troublesome and/or remove him so that he can no longer irritate the 'majority'.
the dialectic process in a wireless interconnected environment can thus progressively evolve the 'correct set of views' on the basis of uninformed opinion that is viewing fragments.
deleuze hits the mark in aligning with the anti-dialectic view of nietzsche which restores the truth of individual experience to its natural primacy over the hoax of 'objective truth' evolved and perfected by the dialectics of rational debate.
my own writing has been to 'make a case' for the restoring of experience-based truth to its natural primacy over the evolving of objective truth by dialectical debate assessed on the 'masterfeed' collation of 'like' and 'dislike' votes. this is not a 'contender theory' that aims to challenge the reigning champion theories in the orthodoxy. the new paradigm can't arrive as a revision of the established paradigm; i.e. nondualism is not a revision of dualism; dualism is a reduction and 'dumbing down' of nondualism.
Wow you're cooler than I thought emile :-)
>Sometimes when I lay down and relax I feel these packets of energy coming into my body kind of in the chest area and at a time like 4th of July when there's lots of people around I might feel a dozen or more (Gel-Oberon)
>Also at times I can feel a shock at night mostly that feels like a low level cattle prod that seems like an outflow or a diminishing of quality
>I also had an experience where I felt like my energies were being pulled out of me and it made me sick because I was not prepared to defend against it
I also get those feelings of energy coming in/going out and peaking or being sapped. I know several other people who do, and I think it's quite typical for the “psychotic” class of conditions (schizophrenia, bipolar, autism spectrum) or at least empath/HSP. I believe most people have this capacity as “pre-Oedipal” children but lose it through the Oedipus complex and entry into language.
I think it's also the reason why someone can be an egoist and still be concerned about others.
>Haven't you heard of solo polyamory? (Gel)
Both hands at once? My, yours must be huge.
>fine tuned for recuperation (Ziggy)
Yeah, long story short: poststructuralism/pomo was a further critical development in critique of Marxism and structuralism in France, emerging as a revolutionary force from the 1968 uprising and its aftermath. It's productive for post-left anarchy, post-Situ and autonomism, but it's mostly been imported by Anglo academics from the 80s onwards – mostly as a weapon against academic Marxism. It's homogenised, kitsched and stripped of its more radical implications, and turned into a kind of ironic performance of textual deconstruction (see feminine jouissance, above). It's fused with idpol (which is a recuperated form of 60s/70s movements also) because of academic convenience. It's then become the dominant ideology in a few academic disciplines (mainly arts and idpol-studies) and in the 2000s got caught-up in the patronage systems of the Third Way. So it's been further modified into a form of tech/hysterical sublime which can't see capitalism at all (if it talks about capitalism/neoliberalism then it's either as a cipher for “western reason” or in terms of “class” as an axis of oppression). Anyway – the thing is, this way of doing things has been absolutely *promoted* by (the Third Way/liberal wing of) global capital in the universities and related sectors, it's absolutely mainstream now, and it's no wonder the people trained in this ideology are producing stuff which is so recuperable – their ideology is a product of recuperation!
You look at someone like Manuel Castells, or Kenichi Ohmae, or Kevin Kelly (90s neoliberals and proto-Third Way), and their work is full of this “capitalism as immanent flow – people need to be flexible and surrender to the flow” crap, which is really a way of saying, people need to surrender to global capital and not try to defend their land, jobs, welfare rights, etc.
>don't really have a plan to deconstruct the state (Ziggy)
Yeah, the standard argument is: there's no “state” or “system” or “capitalism”, power is diffuse and everyday, we're all effects of power (“power is productive not repressive”), so the real hierarchies are things like race and gender, they're not enforced in a top-down way but through everyday relations, we're effects of these relations so the focus is on self-change and not social struggle. If the elite or the system had wanted to deflect attention from themselves, they couldn't have come up with a better theory for it!
>It's BAD FAITH ARGUMENT folks. This is why we don't "engage with emile seriously". (Random Lurker)
I'm tending to agree.
In addition to ad nauseum repetition, he doesn't seem to know the common meaning of basic words (like “dualism” and “dogmatism”), or to be able to explicate whatever private meaning he's attached to his words. He just contradicted himself blatantly about physical reality vs perspectivism after openly denying what he previously said (or appeared to say). Whenever he's caught out in a contradiction or a false scientific claim – which is often – he reacts defensively and turns it around on the accuser.
>He's an arrogant dick and this is about his ego, not discussion (Random Lurker)
Superego in my opinion. He pretends to dissolve his own ego while attacking everyone else's, without seeing that this ego attacking itself is still ego. It's the standard structure of religious thought – which is basically what Emile is giving us.
Thanks again @critic for your exhaustive efforts here. I'm a reasonable person, if not an overly nice person but I firmly believe the only value of this place is good-faith discussion. That's why I resent emile, he's like the guy on the bus who won't shut up, not a major transgression but after an hour … you grind your teeth and wish he would. I also feel thecollective is already doing everything they can but I'll point people to this thread to save time in the future.
this is an exchange on a bulletin board. you are like a fellow standing in front of a bulletin board and reading comments posted by someone that irritates you and every time he posts another comment you read it and get irritated again, and start muttering to yourself, ... why won't that guy shut up. arggh, ... i can't escape from his continuing harassment. we all keep replying to him and telling him how annoying his not shutting up is to everyone, ... and what does he do, ... he keeps replying to us for fuck sake!
this bulletin board on this screen in front of me is really very offensive. it's just like being on a bus with a guy that won't shut up.
We're not talking to you emile, you've made that functionally impossible, it was your choice.
and say, and say, and say, .... but 'talking-at-but-not-listening-to' is the standard approach for those who wish to rally the herd to marginalize others.
Talking-about as in, "Every time I talk to that guy he just calls me an idiot so why would I keep talking to him?"
@critic I am a unique one, you will never meet anyone like me again. Although it wasn't that bad why did you insult my polyamory, are you mad at solo poly?
Hot off the presses:https://youtu.be/NWbUOmaflZc
Polyamory is not unique, and it is anthropocentric, so weigh up all the intolerance that this has in its active roll and sure, it makes for melancholy baby, baby.
I didn't say that polyamory is unique I said that I am a unique one.
You're too sentimental and mystical kiddo to be unique, sorry to break the bad news, just settle for eccentric and leave the heavy unique existentialism to the nihilists, mkay?
where once there lived a giant mouse,
the wind now blows through an empty house
Thanks my fellow poet dood,,,
where once there lived a giant rat
two feet deep in someone's twat
now there is a giant rut
the wind now blows from an empty butt
Wow, I can't believe I've had two opportunities to refer to zoophilia today.
Huh? Insult? It was just a harmless joke :)
(& never heard of solo poly before, thought it sounded like poly masturbation which kinda doesn't make sense but fits in nicely with the Stirner clone-fucking jokes (also, "must have a huge dick" is a complement). Just looked it up, I thought that was just what poly is, as opposed to "open relationship"... ah well.
That neurotic woman in the video on the other hand, with her "keep a tally of positive and negative interactions" (good behaviour stars?) and "if you pretend you like tea, you're raping me"... she needs some insulting. She looks like what would happen if you gave speed to a zombie. "Tip number 1, learn where the clitoris is. It's dangling over my head, because I'm a cunt" hahahaha!
@critic you have a sexy rhetorical style but your dirty poetry is pretty bad.
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