Refusing Survival: What Happens If We Don’t Save the World From Climate Change?

  • Posted on: 14 November 2017
  • By: thecollective

source: novara media

It’s ok. You can say it. Everyone else seems to be saying it now anyway. It might even make you feel better.

It’s too late. Just as we were all getting to grips with climate change, the sixth mass extinction, super storms and all the other end-of-the-world scientific prophecies – just as that ‘oh shit, I’d better take this stuff seriously’ feeling had finally sunk in – it turns out we missed our moment. The catastrophe is already here.

There were all those years of warnings, of ‘10 years before it’s too late’ and those ‘100 month’ campaigns. But that was then. For what seemed like a decade there was an annual event – the COP or ‘Conference of Parties’ to the UN climate change agreement, the big global climate change negotiations between the world’s governments – that was ‘our final chance’ that we never took. Every year it was the ‘last shot’, until now, when we can say, well, that’s it then. We’re set for 2°C of average global warming, bar the intervention of some fantastical technological miracle (or some volcanic activity or a meteor hitting just the right number of power stations or the White House).

2°C is bad. All those hurricanes and floods and droughts? That’s 1°C. 2°C will really fuck shit up. And 2°C is the least of what we can expect. Even if all the governments around the world do their very best and deliver on their climate change promises – the ones they made at the last big COP in Paris in 2015 – we are looking at a 4°C world by the end of the century (if not before).
We are officially post-countdown. We’ve missed our last chance at stopping dangerous climate change. We are over the threshold, and the realisation is not just creeping in but rapidly becoming common sense.

Even the word crisis is in crisis.
Crisis doesn’t quite cover it. Crises are things you recover from. Hell, they are ‘opportunities for (personal) growth and development’. Crisis is the engine of economic growth and innovation, the core of government strategy and the basis of revolutionary hope.

There’s no going back with climate change. It has a long recovery time – 10,000 years, give or take. This means that once it’s changed, you (and your kids and grandkids) will be stuck with it.

To be fair, the feeling that it’s too late to stop dangerous climate change has been building for a long time. It started out as a sense of foreboding amongst environmentalists and scientists, a creeping sense of doom and despair. As the various governmental meetings went by, and activist campaigns came and went, the professional optimism of NGO campaigners waned. This loss of hope was matched by a growing body of catastrophic film and literature, mapping out fears of climate catastrophe in apocalyptic technicolor, giant tsunamis and Mad Max leathers.

From being a marginal concern, one that many people until recently took to be an over-exaggeration or doom-mongering bid for more funding or press coverage, the feeling that it’s too late has rapidly become the common ground of contemporary politics. Not only the ground of government policy and military doctrine, but of everyday politics and basic common sense. Everybody knows.

You can see it in the increasing number of newspaper and magazine articles about living with climate change, about managing anxiety and despair, about ‘facing up to things’. True, there are those who talk up sci-fi fantasies of heroic technological interventions like geoengineering. But there is a distinct sense that no one really believes them.

This lack of faith in a technological solution to the current crisis isn’t because we all know that big business and government aren’t interested in properly sorting things out. Well, it is partially that. But the problem runs much deeper. Something has changed with climate change. There has been a much more profound crisis of faith. We just don’t believe in progress anymore. Not really. We don’t even really think Corbyn will sort it all out. There is nothing that will ‘solve’ climate change, or at least nothing that seems to be politically realistic. All that we have left to choose from are least bad outcomes.

The climate change negotiations taking place in Bonn this month, COP23, are an opportunity to take stock of what the emergence of problems without realistic solutions means politically. As something that has no politically realistic solution, climate change marks a fundamental transformation of not only politics but common sense, one that is having profound effects on everything from business practices to military planning to lifestyle choices.

The politics of containment.
Governments proceed by crisis. Each revolt, each economic splutter and financial crash, each conflict or war creates a political response. Out of these crises come new policies or regulations, new alliances between political actors (from politicians and business ‘leaders’ to trade unions and media barons), novel ideas or ways of seeing the world as well as entirely new ways of managing populations, nations, the global economy and even life itself. These new modes of government are never total, and there are always competing visions, plans, alliances and techniques. But we can map power by looking at the rise and fall of different kinds of government.

The specific character of a crisis plays a significant role in shaping what form these new politics take. Climate change is a terminal crisis. Not terminal as in ‘we’re all dead’, but terminal as in it can’t be fixed. Once we hit 2°C, there’s no going back in our lifetimes. It can’t be solved. There are only ‘less bad outcomes’ – we can’t fix it, but we can figure out how to minimize the harm or contain the damage. The politics that has emerged through everything from NGO and activist campaigns to military doctrine and government policy is the politics of containment.

The dominant logic of the recent past was neoliberalism. And while it is still there, marketizing everything within reach, it’s no longer the main game in town. At its heart, neoliberalism was a pervasive market logic. It meant subjecting everything to the rational cost-benefit analysis of financial calculus. It was (and is) a profoundly individualized way of thinking and governing, one that while lauding the heroic entrepreneurial individual organized the global economy around ever-fewer powerful corporations and fabulously wealthy billionaires. It was the logic of the market at the service of a global oligarchy.

Containment is what happens when neoliberalism meets an exhausted world – ruined ecologies, chaotic climate, anxious and exhausted populations on the constant edge of withdrawal or revolt. Buried under the anxiety and burst speculative bubbles, neoliberalism promises a chance to win. To make it big. To game the system. It’s a logic of aspiration.

Climate change (and all the other assorted ecological crises of the present) ends all that. There is less money to go around, fewer chances. There is no bright future. The future is a storm surge. A category 5 hurricane. A drought and food crisis. There are no aspirations on a dead planet.

Surviving the future.

“The ultimate objective […] is to stabilise greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere at a level that will prevent dangerous human interference with the climate system.” – UNFCCC

So much for that. If that was the aim of the COP, then what could we say it is now? The main aim of the COP is to manage the current moment through a series of compromises around the interests of nation-states and big business. The way of managing that is through ‘politically realistic’ compromises, i.e. by figuring out how to minimise the threat posed to the existing global economy and the position of the world’s most powerful by climate change. Never mind that people have been subjected to the slow violence of various ecological crises, including climate change, in the Global South for decades, and that these same people will continue to be thrown under the bus by the COP negotiations.

Because the COP starts with the interests of the wealthy and powerful, with the negotiating positions of powerful nations and billionaires, there is little chance of reaching an agreement to end both capitalism and fossil fuel use or of working towards remaking the world in an ecologically sound and socially just way. The rich and powerful will protect their interests. That’s just political realism. And it means that doing what’s scientifically and politically necessary will never even be considered at the COP. What we’ll see – and are seeing – is the emergence of armed life boat politics in the Global North coupled with some ‘investment’ and financial handouts for some countries in the Global South.

The politics of the least bad outcome ensures the interests of the powerful are protected, and that the people and governments of the Global South don’t disrupt what’s left of the global economy. The aim then of this politics is to contain the damage that climate change will bring: not solve it, but minimise it, largely by sacrificing large swathes of territory and huge numbers of people.

We can see the logic of containment at work beyond climate change: from migration (fortress Europe) and so-called ‘workfare’ to political events like Brexit and electoral campaigns to everyday life. We all try to make the best out of crap choices.

This doesn’t mean everybody experiences the current moment in the same way. Not everyone has the same set of bad choices; race, gender, class (just to start) all work to produce a profoundly uneven world, where some people still have more hope than others. But more than this, there are still some people with enough power, wealth and privilege to experience the current moment as one where there is still hope for a ‘better’ future (or at least a comfortable one). But for an increasing number of people, the majority, this is not what life looks like.

Living like this, contained and making the least bad choices, is surviving. It’s thinking and feeling like everything is reduced to survival, to getting just the minimum of what you need, most of the time not getting everything you need let alone want, and not thinking that life will ever be more than just surviving. Survival doesn’t just make us all very anxious – it makes us easier to manage. Living with reduced expectations often means letting go of hopes, dreams and, crucially, demands for more.

Salvaging something from the present.
How can we resist the politics of containment, and the common sense of making the least bad choices? Maybe there is something to be said for letting go of the world we have. If the world, politics and our economic system is broken beyond repair, and if there are only least bad choices at this point, then perhaps the time has come for more radical approaches to climate change. If the state, capitalism, the family, our desires and needs are all damaged, all ruined, then the question is one of salvage. What can we salvage from the current moment? What happens if we don’t try to save what we have, but just move onto the question of what we do now? What if we make politics about building a different world in the still smoking ruins of the present? Not about who gets into parliament, or what policies which government or corporation adopt, but based on thinking about what we want life to be like?

We have missed our moment, and if we stick to working with the political and economic systems we have, then we really do only have less bad choices. But if we start with the idea that the world is beyond repair, then it creates a space for a politics of salvage. Salvage politics is about taking what we need and putting it to use for us. It’s a politics focused on social reproduction, and not seizing state power or fixing the economy. It’s not about retreat, but about refusing to participate. It is about taking what we need from those who have it – from the small oligarchy that effectively manage the world – and doing the hard work of making another world.

Published 12th November 2017
This work by Novara Media is licenced under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International Licence


Fuck me, this post us well out of date! It's like the writer(s) has/have just woke up and smelt the coffee! Go back to bed and come back when you have something new, even newish to say. 'Novara Media: The Media of Ages Ago' is an apt tag line.

Maybe you've gotten too used to being ahead of the curve? Anarchists love to be self-denigrating around here and some people come here just to hurl abuse but one of the things we've always been is years ahead of the more mainstream discourses.

Perhaps Novara media is writing to a slightly wider audience that's lagging a few years? That's how (good) radical ideas permeate and become a better understanding on a bigger scale. It takes time!

you may be unaware that many of the 'wider audience' don't give a fuck about much else but themselves. Look at how many activists burn out trying to wake people up. Look at how many projects, you name it, shut down due to lack of interest. Death by convenience is what your wider audience wants. 'It takes time!' Wow, how may times have I heard that one??? Most people, it seems, want paying to say or do anything against the grain, such as NGOs etc..oh wait, they are the part of the status quo as they jump from one NGO cause to another. Your wider audience doesn't exist in the way you like to believe it does... look around you... they don't want to know. They don't want you bringing them down with your heavy shit. They want X Factor and pizza. Do me a favour...

Look at you, trying to convince me there's no point in anything. I'm not your therapist and of course you can do whatever you want, including nothing? Makes no difference to me but you know what's by far the most tedious thing to this jaded, old anarchist? Endless snarky comments about futility that serve no functional purpose at all.

always try and interview David Attenborough...oops, I should say SIR David as he is poster fogie of 'the wider audience!' Like, what the fuck has this dude ever done for the well-being of biodiversity? Have you ever heard condemn farming for example? Have you ever heard or seem him challenged on the mainstream wider audience media? No. The wider audience don't care but you will not accept that because it fucks with 'your hope.' Even JZ, the Head of Team Hope, is not so hopeful these days. Go on then, tell me where you see the situation changing? Please don't tell me to read and watch social media, books etc.Who is actually fighting back? Those that do, typically end up in jail and their few supporters (close family and/or friends) go on podcasts etc begging others (that wider caring audience) to write to their activist comrade prisoners because their comrades been forgotten about. Why? Because no one gives a fuck, that's why. Or is Novara Media suggesting that going on protest marches aka parades is making a difference????

My "hope"? Hahahaha oh that's good.

Nah negative nancy, long since abandoned hope. I just understand how media works. I'm watching the baby boomers becoming dimly aware of the grim future they've already condemned us all to. Anyway, you seem nice! Maybe chill the fuck out and polish your weapons? The apocalypse might not be so bad for those of us who don't trust to "hope".

"Or is Novara Media suggesting that going on protest marches aka parades is making a difference????"

lol, NO! The article is asking what we might do now that nothing will make a difference because it's too late? This seems to be a very difficult concept for people to really come to terms with.

What if it's too late? What if there is literally nothing that will make a difference?

Wake up dude! Your point was dealt with in the post by 13.33 and a couple of others. Keep up!

I really don't understand comments like this, or the ones about how such and such isn't 'anarchist' enough to be on this site. Do anarchists have better things to say about actual events in the world than 'non-anarchists'? Or is it all just endless theorizing about societies that don't exist?

If they do have better things to say, let's hear it. Here, I'll start. The world would be a better place if people who had nothing to say said less.

Cut the catastrophe kids(it might not actually happen or 'they' may figure something out). The above quote remains the optimal way to be anarchic in a none anarchic world. The only other option is ITS which should be of no interest to those whose drive is self-enjoyment and intercourse with the world.

Those are the only 2 options if you lack any imagination or praxis of your own.

Also, there's plenty other things to do besides drinking and being merry, they just don't involve politics or catastrophic worrying.

Prescience is a fun game,,,,

Ah, Progress!, You just CAN'T stop it, can you now . . .
The intensification of farming over the last century has increased the rate of soil erosion as much as 60-fold. ". . . according to the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization, the world on average has just 60 years of growing crops. . . . To keep up with growing food demand, the U.N. estimates 6 million hectares (14.8 million acres) of new farmland will be needed every year. Instead, 12 million hectares (29.6 million acres) a year is lost through soil degradation." (UK Guardian, 3-25-15) This is covered up (for now) with an ever increasing application of chemicals. China dumps two-and-one half times as much per acre into its Land as the U.S. does.

Hahaha nice to know that anthropocentric extrapolations will be a thing of the past in about,,,hmm, let's see,,,,,,.Wait, it all depends of course on what ones national status is, thus the UNs dedication as a monitoring institution for all the former colonialist nations, and their part in fostering the idpol ideological constitution with their foreign aid packages, oh my god, I hope our Sambian buddies aren't singled out by TERFs as being patriarchal authoritarians. Thoughts?

don't go there in their respective podcasts. Instead both waffle on and on about the Trump and The Bourgeois and the working class, for fucks sake. Yes, It's Going Down and Rev Left Radio, isn't it about time, you did a podcast or two on the ruinous state of the land and....this isn't just because of Trump, Capitalism etc??? What's that, why don't I leave an anonymous comment on their respective posting blogs? Why, because neither have such a platform, preferring to control to dialogue instead! So, I'm hoping they will get my point from here.

There's plenty of topics worthy of discussion, why begrudge them their choices? We've watched the Post-Left make its powerful critiques of the failings of the old left for a number of years now, anyone with half a brain agrees with you that ecological catastrophe is one of the most urgent issues of our time. The problem is that critiques and publishing aren't enough to DO anything about these problems, people still need to get together and do more than complain.

Ziggy: It ain't about proclaiming a catastrophe, it is about taking stock of the situation. And the whole "eat,drink be merry" is kinda hard to do in a starving world isn't it? So how do you make sure that's even a possibility? I agree as far as the environmental movement goes mind you...

Tried growing food over the last years? Shit is getting strange. Add to that the on going freakishness and the loss of species, particularly those low on the food chain.

Currently most people don't need to fend for themselves. What will happen in the industrialized world when we will have to?

Look at previous hard times like the world wars and what kind of infrastructure and skill set that were in place then, compared to now.

@ appears as a thorough urbanized phenomena as it is, mainly concerned with these issues as an abstract. I don't know how it is where you live so I could be wrong, but where I'm at (and places I've visited) seem to focus much more on structural debates and understanding, rather than more of a hands in the dirt approach.

Then there is the point redpanther makes about food production and the condition of the soil. Another concern in this is how globalized food production is and the superstructure it depends on. The whole infrastructure which keeps this machine pumping is built for good years with rather stable weather patterns, as are the methods of cultivation. Cut the import of fertilizers, shortages of petrol, lack of imported grains (for livestock and bread), and other ruptures in world trade...

Have seen others around here propose something of an @ survivalism, which sounds like a strange creature. Not sure if you have to go as far. But to actually learn the skills and get practical knowledge on subsistence matters is certainly a good bet. Don't even need a catastrophe to proclaim as much, just watch the rise of the precariat for instance.

What will happen when the food distribution systems begin to break down on a large scale? Basically, the end of the conversation. Folks will be in for a rough time if their only skills involve tech, publishing, theoretical debate and scoring points for online snark.

History has plenty of case-studies, most of them are quite bleak.

It's starkly obvious what will happen. There are many heavily-populated cities on the coasts, and all of those people will have to move. Mass migration / competition over dwindling resources + violence go hand in hand. Agents of the state are well-versed in history and political science and they have a strong grasp on large-scale population control. The people will be hungry, sick, dying, and they will never win.

Nope, another poster here, I believe this is correct, there will be a mass die off, they, the consumerist sheep, will be the ones smelling

troll harder

In poor areas an all(at least some are). Material lack and spiritual suffering are not always one and the same.

I don't disagree that there are existential potentialities of collapse going into this century. Maybe the green revolution will come to an end, maybe the machineologists figure out a 21st century successor that buys time again. The point is none of us know when or even if this contraction will actually happen. If there is a contraction it might not even be as bad as some are saying particularly if the whole permaculture thing along with other scaled down bioregional solutions are in place.

As it stands I don't put it past this semi-global society to figure something out. When you live in the information age with all kinds of inputs from smart mother fuckers solutions happen. There's a big difference between Rome and Easter Island for instance and there's an even bigger one with the society that we are stuck in. They figure shit out. Not that I'm celebrating this btw.

Yeah there are plenty of smarts around, and optimistic machinists and techno nerds, the stuff they come up with, even just recreation equipment, these solar powered electric mini scooters, or concentrated nutrient farms producing spironella algae, the capitalist machine is using 10% of its energy on its citizens for 300% more nett profit, robotics ultimately, and the population housed in malls the size of Cuba, well, look at most capitalist cities now, ragged at the edges, but heading towards a new minimalist aesthetic in architecture,,,

Orwell had the prescience 70 yrs ago, 1984 was actually post WWII 1948, publisher warned him It will be banned, make it sci-fi and blow history wide open, sooo, 2024, 2084, all the same, the same paradigm, same libidinal economy, the same stupidity,,,,,,haha,,,the Giant Fucking Mall society, the ultimate totalitarian world, all the dead prisoners think they are free,,,,,the ones behind bars ARE the free, hmm, I spose one has to be an existentialist nihilist to appreciate the sweet irony, amor fati,,,,,,,

I agree that the whole collapse thing ought to be avoided. I guess it's sorta like the whole thing with fascism. It doesn't really answer much,and it seems to miss the mark.

That something will be done to solve this are perhaps more of a danger,cause who will be the ones benefitting from such a thing in an increasingly precious world?

I ain't saying it needs to be bad/traumatic for those left out, I think that depends on how you currently spend your days. The thing is though that IF it is to be ok for more than a few of us things need to happen before it goes sour.

Takes time to learn things,to adapt,to build up resources,to get the soil is of little help in such a case. Nor is some permaculturists somewhere or all means,it can be done.but it is a shit experience trying to learn all such in hard times rather than in good times.

The Impending Collapse is symbolically similar to the Great Evening and sharply close to the Rapture/Second Coming. Very likely it is already happening, but more accordingly with Marx's prediction of systemic "rotting" under a neverending capitalist plutocracy like we have now. The system is rotting and you just gotta spend some time at university to realize how it does. But this rotting is affecting lives, including those, like non-humans or children, that are innocent. ("think of the children!!!" lol right)

If you look at history of older, lesser advanced civilizations, just look at what made the proles not just survive but adapt... they developped skills and trades, they became craftmen and merchants. Phoenicians, who were the closest to an anarchistic society in the old days, had the best of both worlds, literally.

Venetia btw is still a predominantly craftmen city. It changed little from what it was back in 15th century, just lost economic and politcal importance, but if the collapse woudl suddenly accelerate and make the dominant systems fall down, the joke is that a Venetia, among other small and more traditional economies, will survive and maybe become once again predominant. Because little people in the West these days know how to craft the basic things we use, that do not require electric power or fuels. Or at least I'm seeing more anarchists involved in intellectual jobs or low-skilled manual jobs... well like most proles out there. But all it's doing is making us more subservient and also pretty useless.

Like who knows how to build a decent solar panel or water/wind turbine, or melt recycled plastics into new useful stuff? Ok perhaps 3D printing may allow the latter at some point, but you still require tools and knowledge for the chemistry part. So the collective weakness of the proles these days is how everyting got extremely channeled and compartmented, to a point you require a degree in engineering to do stuff that is quite simple actually and that everyone would need. So more than just leanrning skills to later keep them for yourself or your own elite crowd of petty-bourgies (as in Game Theory applied to social relations i nthis beautiful world), what is required as a means of emancipation at this point may be that thing I asserted a decade ago when went to anarchy more seriously:

To develop networks and infrastructures aimed at decompartmentalizing technical, scientific and linguistic knowledge. Like infoshops and bookfairs, but ones that re focus on other things than debating philosophy and petty politics.

Now there ARE social centers that attempted to do some of this, but it doesn't go far and deep enough. Martial arts and patch-making workshos are going to make you feel and maybe look edgy, but they ain't going to get you the tools for acquiring a social edge. How about social centers filled with books of medicine, microbiology, chemistry and physics stolen from universities? Workshops in accounting or soil chemistry? Self-serving workshops on practical games? There's this stuff that anarchists from 120 years ago had started devleopping, that wasn't really picked up and improved upon, later on.

The best I saw to be coming close to this was legal defense workshops (by Outrage au Tribunal, in Mtl) and they were well-done, reality-focused, although they were just kinda serving their intended purpose. They didn't provide with tools for a creative or active capacities or abilities. Legal defense are defensive, passive measures, that arise out of specific situations of urgency. But what of all the more long-term and more active capacities that can serve your daily life, while also allowing you to survive out of civilizational collapse? Come up with practical solutions to this and you got my dirty government money.

I developed a practical advanced first aid skillshare awhile ago and offer it to anyone that might be interested but without social spaces where people gather on a regular basis, there's only so much I can do. Plus, none of this stuff is rocket science, you just need to wake up in the morning and decide to start learning a new skill instead of consuming buzz feed articles or whatever.

Learning a couple new skills per year is relatively easy for anyone with the spare time.

I’m partially making fun of myself, but wouldn’t it be fun to take over one of those “living history” villages? Do you know what I’m talking about? They’re similar to an amusement park or a stare fair, but the attractions are demonstrations of skills such blacksmithery, creamery, candle making. Now that I think about it, “Agriculture-Tourism” is similar in this way: stay a week on a pretty little farm and learn to put-up jam. Anyway, I like your post. Though, I’m much more attracted to craftsman technology than what’s going on now, so perhaps I’m biased.

So only men are involved in crafting? Haven’t wimen been invented in your little world yet? smh...

I build little, masculine-looking doors so that people bother to knock. You should see their faces!

Haha.. in Europe they call tat autonomous communes, or intentional communities, or eco-villages. They got craftsmen, and yes, tourists mostly from White North America come around to "wwoof" for a few days/weeks. Not saying it's not a good model of "eco-tourism"... just not there enough around here!

...waves of attractive, impressionable young interns from college flooding in every Summer to learn... and serve. THINK ABOUT THAT!

"there ISN'T enough"


Yep,those are good points you're making.sort of like subversive open labs. And I think it also a good idea with regards to communicating ideas out...

Sustainable agriculture voices are never heard from,
I've asked so many anarchist organic farmers:
"will there be a literature?" There is a small one,
like low nitrogen release farming, which keeps nitrogen
in the soil instead of releasing it and having to apply fertilizer.
So we need research (again) into these sustainable techniques.
Hydroponics seemed to fall apart pretty quickly.

There is an an enormous financial incentive for doing things wrong.
That will have to be interrupted, beginning with corporate-state actors.
Management of resources has to be done by someone other than Exxon Mobil, Halliburton
and the contemporary, toxic American state. Major change has to happen here, folks.
Teepees by the Missouri River ain't gonna do it. Gandhi is finished.

The world's leaders have known about this for a long time, according to Mike Davis'
"Planet of Slums" (2006). Rand Corporation has already done the demographics. The
picture ain't pretty and all the decision makers already know. Its a managed wipe-out
of the poor (Prince William's population reduction). Witness today's house vote to remove
13 million low-income people from medicaid.

One thing that might help would be better screening to keep FBI out of our ranks. Something
might actually get done then. Our class-caste-based perspective has to break down along with all
the corporate-state mechanisms that enable it : I mean, what, you went to business school
at UCLA and now feel you deserve to manage this? All of that has to go. The bought judges
and legal system, the profit-prisons, the military...the reform will have to be total. This is why antifa looks
like small potatoes, even if Aragorn doesn't think so. Ask yourself what part of day-to-day life needs
to be saved, protected and defended. The hospitals and sewers? The electrical grid? Public education?
Then propose to change those systems into sustainable ones. No more university meritocracy.

If its too late already, why bother to write an article? That's left-journalism "vulturing": "Ah, look at this juicy
piece of carrion! Ain't that gross?"

Time to get busy.

It's only too late to save anything that vaguely resembles the current society, good fucking riddance!

Not that I'm failing to acknowledge the great suffering and death but you know ... Not a fan!

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