TOTW: Trump

  • Posted on: 14 January 2018
  • By: thecollective

Everybody's doing it, so let's do it too: let's talk about Donald Trump. As anarchists, what are we to make of this guy?

Is this guy the new Hitler of the 21st Century? Or is he just a total idiot and ultimately inconsequential? Or is Trump himself a non-issue, but the pandora's box that he opened of blatant racism, xenophobia and the "Alt Right" the real threat that we need to take seriously?

Perhaps Trump is to be celebrated because he is eroding people's trust and faith in electoral politics and the federal government? Or perhaps Trump is a danger so great that it is worthwhile for anarchists to get out the vote in this year's mid-term elections and/or the 2020 presidential elections? Perhaps this whole thing is just one big elaborate distraction from the Real Problem, and we really shouldn't be talking about this guy at all? Or perhaps not taking the Trump phenomena seriously is just making things worse? Maybe the answer(s) have a little bit of all of the above?



Agree with the conclusion..a little from column A and a little from column B so to speak.

He's playing us all, and why wouldn't he, its his prerogative as an aggressive capitalist of the highest order to manipulate the market by whatever means possible. And what better office to do it from than from the presidency?

The circus and clown act seems to lend credence to notion of a spectacle cast before the public eye to maintain the various illusions of legitimacy (conservatives lamenting the alleged loss of theirs with a mere exasperated plea that "he needs to just keep his mouth shut"). Meanwhile state secrecy and the influence of the pentagon upon civilian life carries on as usual in ways both obvious and in others more covert. This all of course intertwines with the privet sector at numerous levels as well. The inexorable decline of material conditions was rather predictable. What better way to camouflage and redirect the responsibility for it all then with the hideous public display.

As a non US person, Trump running and being elected demonstrates to the outside world just how politically dumb are the people of the USA. He is the perfect symbol of your trash culture. He is a reflection of your values. Then you all pretend to hate the guy and claim you didn't vote for him.

The US is now officially a 'shit-hole country'. Trumpanzees like it that way. They want to stay poor and in a state of infantilization so they can look up to a strong man leader father figure. Hence, Milo's nickname for Trump is 'Daddy'.

And every president gets dumber and dumberer. You thought Gerald Ford was dumb? Wait for Reagan. You thought Reagan was dumb? G.W. Bush was even dumber. You thought no president could possibly be any dumber than Bush? You misunderestimigated Trump.

for all those anarchists and freedom finders! So why are you still in the USA? You hate Trump, right? You hate the system, right? You hate your job, right? So, why don't you go to Rojava and help build The Dream? Maybe because, the high consumption rate of the USA is just too good??? Says so much about many of you who claim you are anarchists! You would rather live in a servitude than strive for what you claim to believe in?

This is probably because most of the people here do not speak Kurmanji (or Turkish or Arabic) and are unaccustomed to international travel.

Because international travel is a privilege and mostly capitalist adventure. FUCK the international, real anarchists are HERE, NOW ! !

because I'd rather not support Kurdish statebuilding nor have to deal with losing my limbs and or/PTSD from combat situations if I can help it

think the peoples of Rojava wanted death etc? You're just another fuckin' armchair gobby shit-talking soft arse westerner like so many who use this site: the white middle class go-to-site for your macho posturing whilst hiding behind you tor browser then off to work work work, you Wage Slave.

I can't afford the airfare to Syria, because I live in a poor sh*it hole country. But feel free to suggest more inane courses of action you've mapped out for my life. Thanks.

Different anon, not sure if it's the same person who seems to love shitting on people for HAVING JOBS. Note: we're not talking about old-school marxist workerist bullshit where we think there's virtue in it or anything, just ultra-shithead troll noise about how anyone who has to wage-slave to survive deserves a kick as well. Extremely safe behind our keyboards, aren't we sweetheart? ;)

touched a raw nerve. You claim to be anarchist but then refuse to take responsibility by blaming HAVING to work etc. Not only that, the people of the USA are supposedly armed to prevent y'all being shit on!! You're fuckin' jokes. Book readers, bloggers, podcasters....certainly not anarchists. Wage Slave...voluntary servitude that's what it is AND you can't handle the truth. Come on, let's get some more excuses from you WAGE SLAVES.

"Take responsibility" meaning, what exactly? I already asked you to elaborate on what your plan here is? Your easily reproducible methodology for no longer having to participate in the wage economy at all? I'm not the one making a far-fetched claim here, you are. Therefore, I don't have to defend anarchists having jobs (like, most of them, throughout history) you have to explain how and why you think that shouldn't be the case. This is how argument works, even before we get in to what an arrogant little piece of shit you are ;)

about, blog about etc... solidarity for one thing. In the USA, you have guns, you have technology, you have a population on its knees so you write about: homelessness, racism, poverty, obesity, pollution etc . Not everyone in this world is allowed to arm themselves. You are. What's the point? Even armed, you're still wage slaves!!! There must be thousands of people who feel desperate. You anarchists are supposedly well read, articulate, passionate, able to galvanise and organise, that's what I assume you're all about??? Clearly, I'm wrong. You're armed, you've got cheap communication, you've got the knowledge, the vision. If not now, when, as the saying goes? Maybe, it is ALL just talk. That's what anarchy actually is nowadays...just a critique and that's it? If so, you may as well do more overtime, work more hours and... Yes, anarchists worked in the past... with the idea of getting rid of it... remember that bit?

Why are you even here? To scream at a wall? You're not even talking to somebody from the US, you jackass. You had no reason to assume you were. You're wrong about quite a few things, I doubt your understanding of anarchist thought or history is worth much but best of all, I only need to hang a mirror on the wall you're shouting at. Don't like something, quit whining and blaming somebody you've never even met.

is a fuckin' joke. That's the whole point. You have guns, technology, theory but very little action. I see vegans tabling on the streets do their bit to educate (re-educate people) regarding human and non-human relations and the mainstream bogus history we have been fed via our socialisation. I don't see anarchists doing this, the occasional book fair and that's about it. Vegans also have vegfests too all over, different countries. Why can't anarchists do something similar?

bro. bro! anarchyfest is an idea that's TOO HARDCORE. one that would put vegfest to shame. don't go there, bro. think of what you're doing, bro.

also, lol @ "re-educate". silly bro.

Oh I see … you're a bot.

"What a Paris when the darkness fell! A European metropolitan city hurled suddenly forth from its old combinations and arrangements; to crash tumultuously together, seeking new. Use and wont will no longer direct any man; each man, with what originality he has, must begin thinking; or following those who think. Seven hundred thousand individuals, on the sudden, find all their old paths, old ways of acting and deciding, vanish from under their feet.… On Monday the huge City has awoke, not to its week-day industry: to what a different one! The working man has become a fighting man; has only one want only: that of arms." -The French Revolution: A History

I guess I am thinking about what we didn't know before and do now. Like sure, we know the civic spectacle of politics in the USA is completely divorced from actual political and social action. That those who partake in this system generally have no real politic other than civic duty etc. I mean as anarchists if we don't already understand that, it's a problem. If you still don't you are hopeless.

But other than the obvious shit I guess the damage he is doing on a daily basis to the highest office in the land is something to witness for sure. Can Trump succeed in weakening the concept of this civic duty forever? Seems like a win if so.

Trump definitely caused the quasi moral panic of the #metoo movement among the liberal ruling class. They are eating themselves alive at the moment. Thats not to say that there are no real issues but if we are being smart we should know what we are dealing with. Even if we don't say it publicly. Idpol and the strength of the liberal intelligentsia will likely suffer in the aftermath which is a big win. Let them lower the bar to "being creepy" in a bar as some sort of grand offense. What better way to point out the puritanical nature of centrist politics in the USA. The liberal elite will push this bullshit to where it's looked at like Angelina Jolie adopting 10 kids from Africa.

What really matters is how this all plays out during the economic crisis incoming. The Democrats and liberals in their infinite idiocy will blame Trump, and not just to win. They are dumb enough to believe Trump in a year could collapse the entire world economy. As anarchists and maybe even non anarchist "left Democrats" I wonder if there will be a big ideological push to realize that capitalism is the problem and had played with our money and lives for the past ten years. That is a big hope. I've been saying for over a year now that the dejected "bernie bros" will be better allies to the anti authoritarian cause than leftist college idpol liberals ever could be. It will play out, just not sure how.

And of course with collapse comes war and conflict. The inner cities will erupt and gentrification will break almost immediately. How will Trump handle it? What will Democrats do? I don't know.

are a Racist, Misogynist, Homophobic, Transphobic, Imperialist Monster!

As much as I loath Trump and everything he stands for, one good thing he has instigated is a new critical perspective on PC and the Idpol incursion into everyday affairs.,.

What there needs to be is a movement of non meanspirited political incorrectness(apolitical correctness). The edgelover needs to be the answer to the edgelord.

Yes, and irreverence negates righteousness.,.

Is that what you think you're doing? "Negating rightiousness?"

We have Trump in the White House ALL because Privileged, Selfish, Racist White "radicals" FAILED to vote for Hillary! Oh, and those Privileged, Selfish, Racist Working-Class Whites who voted for Obama twice, and then voted for Trump. Oh, and the Black turnout fell 7%, the biggest drop ever in one presidential election. Oh, and 29% of Latinos voted for Trump.

i thought anarchistnews was a trump-free safe space.

Anarchism is against snowflakes.

are a Racist, Misogynist, Homophobic, Transphobic, Imperialist Monster TOO!

And Sambians are the perfect race huh?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic but I don't know anyone arguing that this moment isn't at the very least rare. That said, you'd have to be a fool to think the USA will be leading the way into some worldwide upheaval. The middle class will claw at themselves if they have to in order for their continuing slice of normalcy.

Now parts of South America , Southern Europe, Turkey and a few others sure.

If you are being serious id love to hear what "movement" will be heading into this revolutionary situation with momentum.

"'d have to be a fool to think the USA will be leading the way into some worldwide upheaval..."

That's right -- do nothing. You're good at it. You've got a Doctorate in that...

Still waiting on what movement you would suggest is leading the way. Balls in your court bro. Let us know!

The Movement of the Jehovah Witnesses Who Have Had Psychodelic Altar Wine every Sunday for 4 years.

And only the anointed ones partake and there's not many of them left so virtually nobody in JW church touches the Starfire or Shamanna bread.

But seriously, X-tianity is subsumed by the innate human creative potential. Just one epiphany suffices,.,

Let's go over this nice and slow, just for the benefit of a-political U.S. of Aye types:

1. By all credible indicators the United States is a society in sharp accelerating decline,

2. The large, stable, aspiration middle class that guaranteed profound social stability is in sharp long term decline,

3. The political class is outlandishly incompetent at even the most basic managerial tasks.

And none of this is new. This tendencies have been emerging and with ever increasing speed since the 1970's/1980's.

There are no large formal structures like social democratic parties and unions and the mass popular political culture that goes with these to integrate what in this country is becoming an ever more extreme widespread discontent. There are no forces within the conventional dynamics of the U.S. that can slow, stop, or reverse what's happening. And as can be seen with the plans for mass deportations and forced labor for Medicaid, the only answer Capital's political class can come up with is more repression, more violence, more redistribution of wealth upwards to the private sector elite -- and the unmistakable clear message they deliver with this is that a steadily increasing majority of people in this society have absolutely no stake in the perpetuation of this social order...

Now, do something you aren't accustomed to doing, and crack open a history book or two -- where does this lead?

Some of us are already well aware of this and moving to towards the new possibilities. The long night of hipster nihilism is ending and although the daylight will be ugly, things get bad enough and people start to move.

To a revolution leading to seizure of power of a new authoritarian class, in this case some monstrous amalgamation of IDPol, Black Nationalists, and Latinx Nationalists, for whom the IGD-types will be a small band of footsoldiers to be later liquidated or reeducated.

I thought the same thing, old boss/new boss paradox.

Yeah, if your political perspective is one of complete paralysis, you can safely assume that nothing you do will make anything better and things will just keep getting worse. Reality has a tendency to validate confirmation biases like this. But serious anarchists aren't trying to recreate the mistakes of the past. We're better positioned than any other tendency to anticipate those mistakes, if you've done the reading.

What about for being insufferable? Just in the leg ;)

Man, I sure fucking hope so. All the 20-something, 30-something, thoughtful, energetic people are flooding into the egregious D.S.A. for lack of an authentic anti-capitalist & anti-statist alternative.

When you break out of the subcultural-ghetto, you run in to some pretty serious problems with balancing security and reaching out to strangers. We've been wrestling with that a bit but I'm already seeing all these folks you're talking about, casting sidelong glances at the anarchists, bashing their foreheads against the brick wall of electoral politics and then wandering over to the black flag with warm smiles and questions.

I agree with you.

"Security"? Nothing has to be particularly clandestine here. The most effective social struggle is going to be out in the open.

So you've totally slept through all the antifa shit? Our last space was targeted as a centre of "cultural marxism". The whole point of the reactionary street presence is to target explicitly radical spaces, even if they only perceive them to be left-leaning. If you don't have any alt-right creepers trying to dox or ultra-nationalists trying to reenact their own version of westside story, lucky you.

Don't know what I mean by security? You're dangerously naive my friend, might want to reexamine the implications of your original point.

IGTT 7/10 for the itsgoingdown larping.

I'm only a troll if I'm making stuff up. Do you even strugglismo bro?


These 2 things don't belong.

“You Betcha!”

Street protesting is totalitarian fascism, in that it is hierarchical, authoritarian, and expects 100% participation,.,

No, fringe social set one vs. fringe social set two doesn't add up to a hill of haricot verts. That's stuff the proles watch on an uninspired episode of 'Black Mirror.'

So where do you fit in to the marxist pecking order then, your majesty? Should I stick out my pinky finger while I address you? Is eye contact ok?

If society is really just one large prison can MUMIA ever *really* be free?

I said I was a strugglisbro, not that I'm a million years old. Haven't seen a Mumia poster since I was 20, how old are you grandma?!

Yes, your extended pinkie finger will be simply delightful.

At first glance it is exciting and encouraging to see people who call themselves anarchists use violence against politically organized racists, anti-immigrant scum and militant homophobes. The contemporary antifa phenomena is not strictly speaking an expression of the anarchist subculture, but the two overlap, and antifa is the most visible public expression of something close to the anarchist subculture in today’s United States. In this the antifa phenomena also parades the worst aspects of today’s anarchist scene. Violent protests against the extreme right are always short-lived. They do not demand a long-term committment to anything with deeper social roots than the scheduling of more spiky anti-fascist entertainment events. As an extreme left fringe culture fixated on an equal marginal extreme right fringe culture, antifa cannot contribute to the rise of anything more enduring and substantive than an endless series of public brawls with extreme right-wing creeps. A significant unspoken motivation here is that antifa actions don’t tax short attention spans and allow scenesters to accrue subcultural capital with their fellow scenesters.

As the UK libertarian socialist group ‘Solidarity’ put it in their statement, As We See It in the 1960’s:

“Meaningful action, for revolutionaries, is whatever increases the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self-activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification.
Sterile and harmful action is whatever reinforces the passivity of the masses, their apathy, their cynicism, their differentiation through hierarchy, their alienation, their reliance on others to do things for them and the degree to which they can therefore be manipulated by others -- even by those allegedly acting on their behalf.”

On terms like these, antifa fails. We live in a time that is more conducive to the rise of an anti-capitalist mass movement than any other period in American history. Brawls with fascist and racist scumbags may paradoxically sometimes be necessary but they are also an entertaining distraction from more important efforts that are going completely neglected. Antifa stuff feels good. This is its main appeal. The most that can result from antifa actions in the world outside of sporadic confrontations is enthusiastic spectatorship or passive approval on the part of working and poor people who will themselves never get into public fistfights with Nazis and College Republicans.
Regardless of all claims to the contrary the antifa phenomena is not anti-capitalist. A perspective for the abolition of wage labor and market relations is not integral to this kind of politics. Antifa is not geared toward ongoing social struggles in the larger society around us.

A long-term movement for revolutionary change can only grow from conflicts between exploited people and the larger commodity society that we reproduce and confront in our daily lives. Efforts relevant to this lack the high drama of violent protest ghetto events, as they should.

The terrain of the mundane is the only terrain that matters.

We already had this conversation. The crux of your argument being "antifa fails" at your stated criteria.

Not only do I disagree, not only is this highly subjective for you to be attempting to make it in to a dichotomy but you have to work pretty hard to deny that in at least SOME instances, antifascist organizing has "increased the confidence, the autonomy, the initiative, the participation, the solidarity, the equalitarian tendencies and the self-activity of the masses and whatever assists in their demystification." It does all these things. Not always, but often.

I've watched it happen in my town and I've lost count of all the other people writing about it in other cities. No, that's not limited to IGD either. It's all over all the aggregators like reddit and many others too. Why bother denying it? Just trolling? How dull.

But I do agree with other critics that antifa is ultimately limited in its scope, which is why it should only be one small part of something bigger. This debate was settled at least 6 months ago, arguably almost a century ago. Time to move on joker.

and here is another, from a different angle, of the significance of anarchist hesitation before antifa and any thrown-symptom of enthusiasm in our times. thank you for these thoughts. i think they are some of the most important here. the last line is something worth meditative-sloganeering, maybe something to inscribe on your next banner.

'The slogans they did not shout: ‘Our involvement constitutes the content of our desire to escape from it;’ ‘As proletarians we were separated from this land, we now may never return to it;’ ‘The capacity of the productive relation exceeds all capacities to resist it;’ ‘We are powerless to transform the circumstances that have produced us;’ ‘We are also our own police;’ ‘‘Our politics are merely the incorrect formulation of the problem of our existence;’ ‘Our autonomous actions rehearse the limit of our historical determination;’ ‘If we are to chant, then we must chant against ourselves.’'

to clarify this was in response to 16:08.

For the record: I never ask for my essays to be republished on anews and I haven't commented here for years. What these damn nihilist primmies do is selectively pull essays they think will provoke reaction and then misquote the WIlliam Gillis, quote out of context the WIlliam Gillis, or make up quotes to serve misrepresentative narratives about the William Gillis.

Soon you will feel the full power of the force.

Everybody knows this.

"We've already had this conversation" -- where've I heard that line before? Hmmm. If we've had this conversation before it doesn't matter since nothing's been communicated. Doing a violent slight variation on the same protesty-protester shit that's had zero impact on anything and everything since the collapse of the much-ballyhooed anti-Vietnam war movement at the time of the Kent State massacre nearly fifty years ago is going to produce the exact same results -- and that's no results at all.

1. What's going to draw large numbers of working people/dispossessed people into some form of collective direct action -- at first, something small and extremely specific, and then -- possibly -- rapidly advancing in a big way into a potential society-wide confrontation? If you are limiting your understanding to the narrow framework of action that's taken place in the U. S. in recent decades, you are going to be missing something.

How does a convulsive society-wide mass movement, with all its contradictory qualities and necessary false starts, come into being? This is the big question, it's a complicated one, and I myself don't have a pat answer. All I know for sure is that the antifa stuff isn't going to do it.

Trump expresses the Alt- Right perspective.
The DSA express the Alt-Left perspective.
Neither express the sentiments and inclinations
Of those of us on this Site.
We here not attracted to Structures of ideology and Identity.
These above perspectives are the opposite to our predilection for
Autonomy, mutual aid, mutual respect and activity that reflects Movement,
Collaboration, and innovative ways of developing ideas, concepts and praxis that bring in others. Trump is a definitive threat to us. We need to continue our efforts at weakening
His appeal to those vulnerable to his Suasions. Unfortunately this will have to be our
Primary political concern. It will paradoxically allow us to explore many ways to interact
With others. January 20th demonstrations offer us great opportunity, for all sorts
Of activity. Let’s make the most of it.

damnit, I thought that all Those randomly capitalize letters would Spell something. Poor hunch. Disappointed. Hahahaha

Same old outdated A.I. from 2011. What else can you expect from that Azano bot?

Gibberish. Grow up, hippie.

that is the Donald with the union the egoists! Maybe Trump is a brother nihilist? Hey, Rydra, what do you say?

The "Gibberish. Grow up, hippie." - comment was intended in response to Azano. Sorry about any confusions.

There is no discussion here of how to take advantage of what Trump does for large-scale subversive purposes.

We need to get out there and interact with the protesters.
In our community, the anarchists lead the way with Black
and Red and Black flags. The chants are deafening and spirits are high. Old Hippy?
Proud of it!

Hitler, Stalin, Satan:
Trump is a "devil President" if I have ever seen one, and I have seen some seriously bad ones in my time. Ronald Raygun, who was responsible for over 100,000 dead in the Central American civil war he gave new life to. Dubya Bush, responsible for the regional catastrophe of the invasion of Iraq and Daesh therafter. Now Trump, who wants to deport 12 MILLION people and under whom hundreds of felony cases have been filed against protesters and political opponents.

By one report we've had at least four people killed by or because of fascists inside the US since Trump took office. I was nearly a 5th. A failed criminal prosecution over the Deploraball nearly brought about my death (in custody) almost a year ago. In the end they failed: I survived, and their criminal case also failed, so I am still standing-and still fighting with determination increased by their attack.

Trump's 2015-2016 calls to the crowd for violence at his campaign rallies invoked the early days of Hitler, where the Brownshirts or SA were always at their Fuhrer's beck and call to do battle with any and all political enemies. Now Trump's campaign against even the corporate media (much less our own) has gotten so blunt that even a member of Trump's OWN party called him out, saying Josef Stalin had spoken the exact same words about the press being the "enemy of the People." I shoot video myself, when I hear those words I think of journalists being rounded up and sent to gulags. No doubt so does Trump, with a grin on his face.

The US has had worse, but I think you have to go all the way back to the genocidal Andrew Jackson (architect of the Trail of Tears) to find one. At the very start, the Six Nations (Iroquois) named George Washington "Town Destroyer" and to this day they have applied that name to every US president therafter. Guess what? They've all earned it!

This is a good analysis -- now we must move into a new kind of organized, collective, real world action relevant to the everyday life concerns of mainstream wage earners. This is the only way to solve the problem.

Instead we will deal directly with the
Most pressing issue which is the
President , who remains a distinct and present
Danger to us all.
Jan 20, Saturday is the time where we
Come out in great numbers all across the
Land to announce our rejection
Of DJT and his disgusting behavior
As well as his ALT/ right “Program”-
In the Streets. Everywhere. Loud and Clear.
If not now , When? We will be out there
With many others of different persuasion, but
Eager to hear our views, our anarchic
chants. And our total disgust with this
Latter-day Mussolini. The People United
will never be defeated. And of course:
Whose Streets ? Our Streets.

He's actually an ineffective leviathan head of state who is steering a declining empire and providing comedic value in the process. He's not substantially worse then Obama when it comes to things like border issues.

Do what George(Carlin) would do and stay home and rub one out.

I respectfully disagree.
The Phenomenon of “Trump”
Is a distinct sociological Phenomenon.
Similar to the emergence of figures such as Mussolini, Hitler,
Huey Long and other Authoritarian scum. Trump is the type of leader
That is contemporary with our time. Similar to other Alt-right characters like Le Pen
In France. It has swept all over Europe.
These people are all disgusting and existential threats including for those of us on this site.
Yes to , you , as to individual sense and activity. The Union of Egoists, per Stirner.
In our era this includes a variety of activities . This includes the spectacular
sentient force of demonstrators one and all exposing and confronting Power
as ensembles in public on the streets. Visible, a force of kinetic movement.
Wehave no better way to express our disgust, our hopes, and yes, our dreams.
Saturday Jan. 20 is the time, our time to act in our autonomous styles to start
To confront, Openly, this Alt-Right Nightmare. The shut-down showdown
Shows we are at the right place and the right time. Step by Step.

While the ideas associated with Trump do need to be undermined Trump is just a symptom. Does he have similarities to Mussolini, sure, but so did Berlusconi and he clearly did not turn out like those classical fascist leaders. Trump is The US's Berlusconi which is nothing existentially threatening.

is a typical Republican style politician. His personality was indeed flamboyant
but his politics were conventional. The Alt-Right phenomenon was and is represented by The Northern League in Italy, located in the Industrial North. This has been so for 30 years. My Italian born
Brother-in-Law, while intrigued, dismissed them. He was a committed Republican here in the States.
He was a Berlusconi follower and supporter.
Stop trying to conflate the Democratic and Republican Parties, which are Bourgeois formations ,to the
Neo-Fascist White- Supremacist Right, Led by Stephen Miller, The main Ideological and Top Advisor to Trump> IN the White House. Labeling Trump as simply typical Capitalist is naive.The Alt-Right is our No.1 enemy Period, end of Story. I Like Peter Lamborn Wilson too and Stirner .They inform me Philosophically, Sociologically but Not as to current US politics.

There was actually a certain amount of hysteria around him at the time and he had his detractors who through the F word around a lot.

Trump I would say is between Berlusconi and Mussolini but much closer to the former. It's his fans that are the issue not him. He's not an ideologue like those two who led Italy and Germany. The people you listed such as Stephen Miller may be in a continuum with what ends up being hard fascism but they don't quite fit the bill as being equivalent to people like Goebbels. Even Bannon is a halfway point and he's fired and out of a couple of jobs now.

I agree that Trump , like Berlusconi, share the fact that they are businessmen. However, Berlusconi never had any Alt-Right
politics. He is a media mogul, presents himself as a bit of a Dandy. He saw the Northern League as an outlier and as a proto-fascist formation. He never had any advisors
like Gorka, Miller, or Bannon. He despised and feared the N.L. and never formed an alliance with them formally or informally.
He never expressed Alt -Right themes. He never associated with Alt-right figures.He never praised the Alt-Right Leader like Le Pen
(the Father). Trump has praised Alt-Right Figures such as Le Pen's own Alt-Right Daughter.The Nature of the Alt-Right is the issue. It proposes
Nativism, White Supremacy, "Great Works" of investment as "Infrastructure" , such as the "Big Wall" along the Mexican Border,
Airplanes from Boeing, fantasies of "Bringing back Steel, "big time". His megalomania, pathological Lying,
'grand pronouncements', Blustering, etc. speak to a severe , unrelenting Character Disorder very similar to other proto-facsist and Fascist figures, past and present, as we all know. Berlusconi is no where near as Pathological.
And ,of course ,appealing to the erstwhile "Working people" who have been "forgotten" ( sounds like Hitler, Mussolini,). Trump complemented other- Alt Leaders who recently won in Europe.He disparages the bourgeois liberal or conservative politicians like Macron, Theresa May, Trudeau etc.
May has even refused to invite him to Great Britain . So therefore unlike Berlusconi, Trump is indeed Alt-Right. And of course,
Berlusconi would never cosy up to the Alt-Right Putin > for sure.

"As anarchists, what are we to make of this guy?"
Probably not just "fucking" him...
I think either anarchists do what michael sanford tried to do out of this guy... a carcass... or they shouldn't talk about this idiot at all....
bla bla bla...

When I see his image I instantly place him as the mutated combination of Rodney Dangerfield and Liberace and get a few laughs, similar to watching Dr Strangelove, or how I learned to love the bomb, satirical perspective kicks in,.,

Maybe I'm just tired. But I think that anarchist people need to get out from the capitalist world and make their own. All people that don't support us, they support official government political line (because the politics buy them).

That's about the correct assessment though to refine the point a bit you can find outliers on the inside of civilization that can help you out or you can involve anarchy in within a grey area of city state society as part of a continuum.

Maybe I'm just tired. But I think that anarchist people need to get out from the capitalist world and make their own. All people that don't support us, they support official government political line (because the politics buy them).

This is completely pusillanimous and one hundred percent typical US anarcho weenie shit. This is all I have ever encountered in your scene. It is a scene for weaklings and spoiled children. Any real adult with any drive and vitality in them, any backbone and nerve, can see that this social order has no future, and is now approaching an almost ideal point of vulnerability for a new kind of real world mass social struggle politics -- and no one in your subculture is enough of a fully adult woman or man to contribute anything here.

That's exactly what anarchy entails Kev, NOT. That's not how anarchism and anarchy rose up to begin with btw and certainly not how it rebounded in the 60s and 70s.

the question is loaded and i doubt you are an anarchist, its quite sad that your level of debate is on par with the globalist main stream media and corporate bankers, Frankfurt school inspired Marxist ideology will never crush human sovereignty, love resonates at a higher frequency and shills, echo chamber apparatchiks beware, trump is the manifestation of humanity's response to the duopoly of politic enslavement, its global!! wake up ! and trump is the elitist nightmare, putin refused and threw out the Rothschild central bank,, that problem they could isolate and attack later but with trump starting to dismantle the levers of global dictatorship they are freaking out, so enough demonizing him in the name of anarchy admit you are a plastic anarchist riddled with personal issues and stop lying mostly to yourself old anarchists like me have a long memory and will never be fooled by straw-man revolutionaries and larping spawn of marxist academia, the people are going to win,


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