B&G Podcast 15: BAGR Roundtable Discussion

  • Posted on: 9 October 2018
  • By: thecollective

From Black and Green Podcast, October 4, 2018

Had the pleasure of swinging by Eugene, Oregon to meet up at John Zerzan’s house over last weekend along with five other current and former editors of Black and Green Review to talk about the journal, direction, discussion about the anarchist milieu and the directions to push anti-civ discussion. Featuring John Zerzan, Evan Cestari, Lilia, Cliff Hayes, and Yank.

Listen / Download here:



So much for green anarchism as any moment of anarchist regeneration, excitement and regrowth. John Zerzan is not an anarchists arsehole.

This was ok, sure is time to seek the magic wand and wish for new alternative relationships other than just civilized commodity consumption. Maybe the paleo-nihilists can break new ground.

Why are you waiting for someone to 'break new ground'? What new ground needs to be broken? Why don't you stop waiting around for the perfect ideology or the perfect messiah, and start actually doing something.

I'm trying to start a paleo-nihilist kindergarten but not getting any positive support from anyone about the idea. Can't say I didn't try, guess I'll just stick to cynical tirades on social media.

Primal Anarchy! KT slags off ANews again which begs two questions why does ANews keep accepting material from KT and JZ, and why does JZ and KT keep sending material to 'crappy' ANews? Had to laugh when JZ said he always on the lookout for new perspectives and would be intetested in discussing them! We all know that is complete bollocks. They admit the problem they have is being another product to consume then discard. Vegans are doing more to 'save the planet' than B&GR crowd, something KT outright slags off as he is determined, before he dies, to be Caveman with his spear and walking tall as he goes to kill a being he has no need to kill. Layla AbdelRahim's perspective as a vegan primitivist has not been discussed by B&GR crowd; whether her petspective is viable etc, what would it mean for humans to be vegan and primitivist, oops, I mean be vegan and a primal anarchist? Why doesn't JZ invite Layla on to Anarchy Radio to discuss it on his show? JZ refused to discuss ideas with Aragorn! And I agree with Chisrl's summary of JZ's total unpreparedness on last week's show.

You're advocating anews censor JZ and KT? Deplatform them? How anti-authoritarian of you. God you sectarians really want your own filter bubble don't you. Maybe go to your safe space.

JZ has had Layla on a few times.

Vegans aren't doing shit about anything, except virtue signalling about how righteous they are.

To ask why is to be anti-authoritarian? How authoritarian of YOU!!! Re Layla: being a vegan and primmie was never ever even remotely mentioned; sort of like an unsaid 'let's not go there?' Layla has also previously alluded to her being ostracised by some because of her perspectives...would KT and JZ be part of that? I'm confident Layla would be up for a meaningful discussion on humans-as-primates, would JZ then later make snide remarks about her perspectives as he has done regarding others? JZ mocks egoists and nihilists so why not also mock a vegan primitivist, so steadfast is JZ in his perspective. As for you last point point about vegans 'aren't doing shit...' could this anonymous really be KT as this comment is very KT-like? Just like Elon Musk is 'a piece of shit.' KT does like to overuse 'shit' in his rants. Bellamy is a 'piece of shit too.' Anarchist News could reject JZ and KT if the two of them feel so negative towards ANews, why wouldn't that happen; it isn't being authoritarian. It's not like JZ and KT are being prevented from going elsewhere. I note no word of reply regarding A! inviting JZ on The Brilliant. Come on KT, own up, it's you being the anon commenter, right?

07:41 Yes, to ask why anews continues to accept JZ and KT postings is to imply anews should not accept their postings, given the critical context of your comment. How else are we to understand your comment?

The fact that JZ doesn't mock vegan primitivists in the same way he mocks egoists and nihilists is evidence of what exactly?

And no, sorry to disappoint, I'm not KT. But I do agree, JZ should have gone on A!s podcast.

Weeeell, JZ is aware that in the last 20 yrs, with the explosion of microchip technology, that a global anti-civ realization is not happening, that a new angle of engagement must be found and renamed to embrace and maximize the coming generations fledgling awareness of the need for sustainability and conservation and efficiency in energy systems. Multiple influences have fragmented the once solid and homogeneous anarcho-primitivist brand into diverse regional varieties of values from atheistic Mormonesque homesteaders to primal paleo-nihilist hobos existing on the fringes of cities and abandoned ghost towns. All of them have been waiting for a blueprint which relates to their idiosyncratic leanings and quest for non-industrialized non-authoritarian liberty from institutionalized custom and culture.
JZ is burying the ideological hatchet and welcoming a new start to a less tech type of simple wild living within the shell of a sensible and sustainable manufacturing society.

jz supports manufacturing and kt is a maoist movie critic? what is happening?? has the world finally broken green anarchy? one would think this would have been the decade for it to finally shine..or fail utterly and disappear i guess

Paleo-nihilism no palamino. If this is Paleo-nihilism news site then let them say so. Stop broadcasting anarchism-hating crap from the likes of creepy Zerzan, slippery Aragon and that Anarchy-ism TROLL, Einzig. As for Tucker - he sounds doubly suspect if he is a left-commie as well as one of these fringe eco-fash types. If he's trolling here anonymously I hope he gets SWATTED off. All power to the anarchists!

The brave paleo-nihilists and primal anarch knights shall boldly feast on vegetables, fruits, nuts, eggs AND milk products such as cheeses and yoghurts to keep their biceps and muscularly skeletal physiology at its prime!

We, the anarcho-domesticatus-erectus sub-group of anti-civ moderate neo-modern workerists wish to be recognized by the anti-Marxist non-idpol apolitical paleo-nihilists, pleeeeeeeeeeease?


17:54 Hey dude, that came accross as a pretty domesticated and civilized response from someone purportedly claiming to have anarcho-primitivist values. How do you justify this contradictory behavior?

HEY WILL EVERY FREAKIN -ISM JUST STFU!!! The world is dying, RIGHT NOW! All we ask is everyone to reduce their consumerism, the clothing and gadget fetishisms, their tourist destiny fetishisms, their image and identity fetishisms, their paranoid securuty fetishisms AND JUST BE THEMSELVES IN THEIR BEINGNESS OF THE NOW!!
So damn easy, and the carbon footprint could, I say maybe COULD be maintained at a sustainable level, but everyones gotta get rid of all that cultural identity crap they are attached to and be the humble paleo-nihilists they were born as, mkay!?

Don't hold your breath!

in relation to her thoughts on 'controlled use of fire' as I'm sure her views are different from KT in that fire has had the most fundamental impact on humans. Sadly, Yank doesn't make her views known but is an editor of B@GR. One has to wonder how many other perspectives never see the light of day of this supposedly open-minded (non-ideological???) outfit. KT cannot bring himself to mention Layla's name. B@GR, being such a small band of outliers, need all the support they can get, one would have thought? JZ talks about not being invited to TED talks, well primitivists (of not the KT brand) equally don't get so much as a mention! So, come on Yank, let's have some thoughts from you or has KT put you in the silent partner bracket?

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