System Fail #8: The Ghosts of Democracy


CW: Discussion about sexual assault (including against minors), torture; scenes of police brutality, murder.  

In this episode we look at recent developments in the social war in Greece, fueled in part by the COVID lockdown, the Greek #MeToo movement and the hunger strike of Dimitris Koufontinas. We also sit down with co-editor of We Are an Image of the Future: The Greek Revolt of December 2008 and member of the VOID Network, Tasos Sagris.

English/Greek with some hardcoded English subs.

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Year 2021
Length 24 Mins
Categories System Fail

There are 20 Comments

great book, "Harmful to Minors" (by Judith Levine)

By both the right(who did cancel her at the time of course) and the consentarded age gap obsessed puritanical left. There's a 1997 Politically Incorrect video of Bill Maher defending Mary Kay Letourneau that would be unthinkable to do today. It doesn't help that many anarchists chip into to this repression.

i dont like bill he just happens to make a good point in that clip, "Basically they're having a family and they're keeping the mother in jail because she won't conform..."

There are certain rites of passage which are exempt of any concept of consentual contractual agreement. That's life.

That's life, you rapist shitbag.

I am talking about the rites of autonomous sovereignty you silly novice of life-forces.

And just because of my name don't stereotype me as a rapist Maoist!

grooming kids for adult sexual activity either.

It's a sensitive topic: there are instances of sexual activity with children in lots of different tribes, but in the end the problem isn't sexual activity with minors, it's the power dynamics of people involved in sexual activity and the extent that both are enjoying it or benefiting from it. If you watch the video, were talking about what seems to be another Harvey-Wienstein type of scenario.

For example: if i had a girlfriend, and i was like "i'll eat your pussy if you suck my cock", and she says "okay!" and gets to work on my ding-aling, then i don't see the problem with it as long as i eat her pussy aftwerwards, even if she doesn't enjoy sucking my cock. 1000% anarchist!

"even if she doesn't enjoy sucking my cock" Oh okay, so that translates as the imperative "Just do it!". 1000% anarchist?

What are you, a femme-misoginist who thinks that consent needs to be a legally sanctioned thing? Life is a series of moments, by denying sexual knowledge to children, you are committing a form of rape.

Consent is a govermentalist born term and it only makes sense to emphasize it in very acute situations(in porn and sex work for example) In regards to power dynamics, this applies to everything in regards to adult/minor relations. Think of the absurdity of a 5 going on 6 year old 'consenting' to the 12 year education process which they are no where near truly comprehending. There is of course a small percentage of humans of who become libertarian/anarchist anti-school and education and their value judgements are completely swept aside ie 'it was for your own good'. It's a complete double standard from adult/minor sex where a minor might regret it later on for various reasons which often times are iatrogenic. Education is of course positively enforced to the nth degree.

The anarchist/anarch position should be radical shift on the current ideas of age and maturity which are based on shitty modern assumptions and back to a more archaic/classical standard where over 11 under 18 was pretty well seen as mostly adult. Greater marginal freedom for that age group as well obviously(voluntary education at the very least).

i was mostly joking when i said "denying sexual knowledge to children is rape" (since this is apparently a space where we can embrace humor...) but overall i feel the consent issue should be more of an intuitive thing, whereas, if you engage in sexual activity with someone, you need to at least care about whether they enjoy it for it to be a form of mutual reciprocity. But as i pointed out, if two people wanna treat sex as some exchange-of-favors type scenario like with prostitution (i personlly have no interest in this, even though i've thought about seeking out prostitutes before), it doesn't make any sense for a supposed "anarchist" to jump in the middle of it and start talking about how bad and immoral it is.

Nothing says "commodity fetishism" like prostitution

Prostitution and sex work in general is one of those issues that many use value obsessive leftists don't have a good explanation for as it deals with complex complicated human desires and and marginal wants and needs. I think it's thinks an exchange value activity that actually has some legitimacy and in more anarchic context can and likely will exist at the margins. As far as work goes it's highly preferential and the profession is only made hard by societal iatrogenic trad religious puritanical moral faggery.

I suspect it's not possible to have a punitive system and a stable power-hierarchy (whether it's adult-child, male-female, white-black, screw-con, pig-civilian, boss-worker) without traumatising and fucking-up the subordinate group to some degree. Because otherwise each member of the subordinate group will assert its needs or boundaries and the situation will equalise. If someone isn't in favour of children's liberation, then either they're deluded or they're in favour of child-abuse - end of story.

Hence: I agree there's a huge double standard, fucking kids is meant to scar them for life yet so many other kinds of trauma are legal and encouraged, like compulsory schooling, child-grabs, police brutality in schools, schools designed like prisons with CCTV etc, putting kids in isolation, beating (in some countries), force-feeding/forcing to eat things they find repulsive, forced exercise they find painful, banning from seeing friends or destroying/stealing property of sentimental value... etc etc. Also there's studies which show time-out does as much harm as beating, because kids interpret it as parental abandonment and thus life-threatening. At the moment this is covered-up by the focus on pedos and child-on-child aggression/bullying/etc, which both serves to excuse totalitarian control of children "for their own safety" and provides an excuse for why so many people grow up fucked-up (letting the system off the hook). Also age-of-consent is an arbitrary way to handle the problem and the current age is biologically speaking too high.

This said, I have huge worries with child-adult sex because children are so easy to manipulate (that's also a huge issue with compulsory schooling and a bunch of other stuff). Honestly... aside from a minority of rebel kids who were usually fucked-up early, it's possible to sweet-talk, trick or authoritative-tone kids to "consent" to just about anything. Like, believing in Santa Claus, heaven and hell, they mustn't swim in the lake cos there's a monster that will gobble them up etc etc. Also because there's a whole set of early worries in pre-pubescent children of a Kleinian type... fears of being penetrated and incorporating a bad object for example, which any actual sexual interaction will trigger. And finally, because with pedos one is usually dealing with projective object-substitutions in which the child is only imagined to enjoy, be sexual in the appropriate way, etc; and the impact on children is generally to encourage artificial persona-formation, an "adult" surface which later becomes a false secondary ego. So there's analogies with stuff like kids doing hard drugs or very dangerous activities, or fighting in wars.

I think you may be over thinking this. Kids are incredibly resilient and it is possible that sex without penetration could be as exhilirating as a ride on a rollercoaster and a few days later the thrill would be forgotten. Its only when brute force by authoritarian sadistic orgasm addicts enters the equation that permanent harm is done.
I myself have children and enjoy hugging and kissing them. Just common sense and a personal code tells me that tongue kissing children is disgusting, especially during the covid epidemic.

Is that engineering it is probably a bad idea. The NAMBLA PIE folks from back in the day made some good points that I still argue stand undefeated(the iatrogenic factor as argued by O'Carroll). However, I think their prescriptions are probably not good ideas as they are based on more adult(for lack of a better word) dynamics.

That all said, I'm not against a non mechanical organic emergence of pedophilia in some local hotspot that involves a highly carnal culture with solid carnal knowledge. Moderns have become retarded from such knowledge and I don't trust them to be this culture. I do think if cases happen where there is no concrete victim(no statuary legal faggery) then just let it be however uncomfortable one might be with such an event. I tend to like Wolfi/Feral Faun's position on the issue as he articulated it back in 1987. I do agree that psychological asymmetries and manipulation are not things to ignore.

What does definitely have to happen is that pretty well everything north of pedophilia be allowed. There is no good reason for any kind of formal carnal restrictions once pubescence kicks in(maybe guidelines on things pertaining to relationships but nothing in regards to immediate sexual relations) . The current modern mores are historical aberrations from 99 percent of human history where this was all just tuesday.

Definitely the easing of the puritan moral imposition that particularly retards adolescent exploration and creativity without the adult dynamic taking the fun out of it.

those who play into the "dumb innocence" narrative are committing an intellectual disservice by viewing younger people as "lesser-than" and thus enabling low maturity/development

if some 'anarchist' wants to increase the age of consent to 25 (keeping in line with one theory) go ahead and try to refine the relationship between sex/science/and State

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