43. THE SAND BOOK

from Doomer V Bloomer

In this episode we talk about (okay, mostly complain about) the anti-civilization and anti-utopian pamphlet: Desert by Anonymous. Is this a doomer text, or can both bloomer and doomer agree that it goes too far? We tried to be fair with our critiques but sectarianism got the better of us and we engage in some shit talking, please forgive us.

References:
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert
organisemagazine.org.uk/2019/10/03/desert-review/
anarchistnews.org/content/critique-desert
www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00177-3
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murra…pulation-myth
www.iias.asia/sites/default/file…IIAS_NL49_1213.pdf
yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300182…0/against-grain
salvage.zone/mieville_all.html

Links:
facebook.com/doomervbloomerpodcast
facebook.com/groups/doomervbloomercommune
twitter.com/doomervbloomer
discord.gg/EGkyzpt
patreon.com/doomervbloomer
doomervbloomer@gmail.com
channelzeronetwork.com

There are 15 Comments

OK: It's hard to know what to do with these two. They are probably the worst podcast since silly willy gilly did one a few years ago. I'm pretty sure one of the hosts talks about not even reading the book in this episode. They are bad faith in every critique. The entire podcast is built upon a false premise of what Desert is, which makes the entire podcast an attack of a straw man. These 2 fucking morons don't even realize that the post-left exists. They think every anarchist is a leftist...which fuck...how can you have an anarchist podcast without even being aware that other people are out there with different ideas. They are fucking jargon monsters and agree monsters. At one point one of them says the lame build the new world shell of the old cliche and the dude laughs at the jargon cliche and then realizes the other person was serious and he just agrees w her because he is a "good man." If these idiots had anyone they dislike on their podcast for even 20 minutes their lives would be ruined. Any nihilist, anti-civ, or post-left human who has engaged in critical thought over anarchy would smash them. I fucking hate this podcast, it's super annoying that they feel they should be putting this out there. Its complete trash and I say this as someone who doesn't even like Desert! I'm probably the only one of my friends who doesn't like it, but it's not for the same reasons as these two idiotic podcasters. If they wrote their critiques as a high school paper for an english or poli sci class they would fucking fail because they have zero reading comprehesion. These two religious zealots for revolution and being good and protest and mutual aid and solidarity and every other margarine word jargon bullshit that is so pervasive in "anarchy" somehow manage to say that Desert is religious. Fucking hold up a mirror for five seconds to yourselves, for fucks sake...The rage at this podcast is strong. Channel Zero is a worthless shit show of fucking trash. This podcast and the fucking moron who does the main podcast w Doug who is obsessed with CSpan combined with the Coffee for Comrades shit which is basically marxist good man dog shit...wtf. IGD is "anarchy" for people who don't want to be challenged on anything but their privilege. These morons are supposedly anarchists but can't stop GROUPTHINKING. It's a problem more pervasive than just the left tho, that shitty egoist podcast recently that talked about leftism was the same, they all fucking agree agree agree, they have no ability to have constructive disagreement and dialogue. Those idiots went to the study group in the bay too, you would think they would have learned! Fuck it all, anarchy is trash, 99.99999% of it is group think unoriginal and uninspired trash

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space to talk about the good and reasonable reasons why *you* don't like desert, right?

and agreed about these two podcasters. and agreed about conversations between people who just agree with each other.

btw though, anarchy is too broad to be contained within your "anarchy is trash" comment, and have you heard of sturgeon's law?

yeah! we respond to abusive rhetoric around here, now I wanna know why they don't like desert too!

mixed feelings about it myself, plus a lot of it almost seems like just stating the obvious as time goes on

Heard of sturgeons law which is funny because I’ve read a couple of his books and now I feel like I would like you a lot ha. I guess what I really meant was that anarchy land is trash and why I’m basically mostly outside of it. I have broader idea of anarchy and it involves probably a lot of similar people. I feel like you have a fondness for the golden age of piracy as well as a lot of the fiction writers I like too which is a more expansive fun anarchy than most of what exists in anarchy land. To your point: I feel like sturgeons law doesn’t take it far enough , 90 percent seems really low. To give a proper critique of desert I’d have to dig up my annotated copy and look it over again, it’s been years since I deep dove it

bro chill they both have valid excuses for not having read the book. bloomer needs to finish their psu homework and the doomer is dope sick at reed.

I didn't make it very far into this.

The idea that one pamphlet or one book is going to be everything and say everything is ludicrous, why do podcasters insist on this formulation? Of course Desert has weak points, of course Desert doesn't cover every contingency.

My main takeaway is Desert is best read after the reader turns 40. The youth still have too much belief in the goodness of others, too much hope in the possibility of change for the better and too much belief in their own capacity to make the ends they think they want.
There won't be global revolution inaugurating the Anarchist utopia because there is no global solution ,ie no one size fits all remedy for the shit we face.
(Not to mention, these podcasters don't see climate catastrophe as happening now because they are not looking much beyond their own noses. Look up children, look to island nations to see climate catastrophe has happened already.)

Listened to the whole thing. The podcasters claim that Desert is religious while reacting to it as though it attacked their religion (because it did). Also at some point (I think about 20 minutes in?) one of the hosts literally makes a "dangerous book" argument. They said they wanted to critique the book in good faith but almost everything they say about it comes across as being the opposite of that.

I really liked your podcast where you talk about the “joe rogan phenomenon” lol.

I’m completely surrounded by people who are deep into JR and it can be pretty annoying day to day. It was very satisfying to hear y’all tear that shit up. In particular that bit about joe phenomena being akin to the blind idiot god azathoth had me DEAD.

It’s crazy, man...

Annoyed that I’ve had multiple people say oh so you’re one of those anarchist who read desert whenever I pose a critique. The level of memehood the left has fallen into is a joke. People don’t like desert because they think it challenges their identity as people who’re going to save the world. At this point I find 90% of anarchists boring and dumb. It’s easier to have conversations with people not inundated with leftist ideals. The struggalistas will be the end of me.

The thing I don't like with Desert is its adherence to Collapsism as well as somewhat endorsing the dominant Climate Change narrative.

so I notice that in your story ... you don't like being interrupted while "critiquing" and you dislike people who are motivated to "save the world", you know, do stuff besides "critiquing"... that's boring and dumb.

THEN you imply that their annoying optimism is what will kill you, rather than ... you know, that whole end of the world thing.

THERES JUST NO TALKING TO BORING DUMB PPL, AMIRITE?! LEFTISTS!!!

What lol! People can interrupt away. The dominant strain of anarchism is full of this bullshit that can be found on IDG or the channel zero network. There’s very little critical thought happening. I’m not against doing things other than critique. In fact desert is all about doing things even if the world can’t be saved. I don’t actually know if the world is gonna end. It doesn’t really matter either way. I’m here to live anarchy and find others willing to do the same. I’m not here to Larp revolutionary and to create some prefigurative microstates based on Rojava or something.

This podcast is straight up garbage. I disavow. -10 points for gryffindor.

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