Submitted by anon (not verified) on Thu, 02/13/2020 - 01:29
hold on Mao 17:59.
"Are you implicitly trying to make the case for governance? Is your concern that if the radical decentralization idea were to go into effect then it would result into violence and warring? News flash, we already have violence and warring in virtually all 1st world countries with governments".
No, I'm not making the case for governance, I am pointing out a sociological fact. And no, we don't "already have violence and warring in virtually all 1st world countries". Where in the actual fuck do you get that idea from? Canada is at war with nobody, same with Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Japan, Germany, France, Italy, Switzerland, etc. Which 1st world countries are at war?
"I don't speak for Bellamy or know the specifics of his ideas around this but I doubt he envisions anarchists peacefully co-existing alongside white nationalists living as literal neighbors or perhaps living a block or so away from each other."
But that is exactly what Bellamy is literally implying. Where are all these disparate ideologies going to live, if not near each other? Do you think they are just going to scatter to the four corners of the world? These opposing ideologies already live next door to each other within the same countries. You could be living next door to a white nationalist or a communist right now. The only thing keeping them from killing you is the state. This doesn't mean I support the state, I am merely pointing out the facts of the situation we are currently living in, and how absurd pan-sucessionism (based on some fantasy of discussion and agreements) actually is. You cannot reason with white nationalists. Racism is irrational, by definition. White nationalists are deranged, bloodthirsty psychopaths hell bent on domination and control.
"People could voluntarily band together based on their chosen criteria, and for example if a large portion anarchists decided that they all wanted to live in Berkeley CA (or the entirety of CA) they would do that. If a large group of fascists decided that they want to live in Virginia and make that their "ethno state" they could do that as long as we all agree not to interfere/transgress with each other."
LMAO! Listen to yourself. Do you not see the utter ahistorical nonsense of this claim? Do you think this has not already been tried? Look at Israel. Are they peacefully co-existing with Palestinians? Did the Hutus and Tutsi's peacefully co-exist in Rowanda? Did the European capitalists co-exist peacefully with the Native Americans? Did the Nazis peacefully co-exist with the Soviet Union? Do you honestly believe fascists are misunderstood pacifists and just want to be left alone and keep to themselves? Do you think communists with their world-wide revolution want to? C'mon man, this is too easy to refute. You can't be this naive, can you? What Bellamy is proposing is Walt Disney anarchy. It's pure fantasy based on a child-like Kumbaya vision of the world.
"Given the fact that there are fascists/white supremacists/ authoritarians/ etc. living in the US amongst us now, I do see the voluntary separating as more practical, viable, and desirable if the state disappeared."
If the state disappeared the white supremacists would simply resurrect it for their own purposes. They have already murdered more than 180 people over the last 20 years. You would see even more killings, more Mosque shootings, more Synagogue shootings, more shopping mall shootings, more stabbings, more people being run over by vehicles, etc. As bad as things are now, they would be exponentially worse without a state, unless anarchists decided to rise up and defend themselves and everyone else against the white nationalists by killing them. But then that would go against the whole idea of peaceful pan-successionism.
hold on Mao 17:59.
"Are you implicitly trying to make the case for governance? Is your concern that if the radical decentralization idea were to go into effect then it would result into violence and warring? News flash, we already have violence and warring in virtually all 1st world countries with governments".
No, I'm not making the case for governance, I am pointing out a sociological fact. And no, we don't "already have violence and warring in virtually all 1st world countries". Where in the actual fuck do you get that idea from? Canada is at war with nobody, same with Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Japan, Germany, France, Italy, Switzerland, etc. Which 1st world countries are at war?
"I don't speak for Bellamy or know the specifics of his ideas around this but I doubt he envisions anarchists peacefully co-existing alongside white nationalists living as literal neighbors or perhaps living a block or so away from each other."
But that is exactly what Bellamy is literally implying. Where are all these disparate ideologies going to live, if not near each other? Do you think they are just going to scatter to the four corners of the world? These opposing ideologies already live next door to each other within the same countries. You could be living next door to a white nationalist or a communist right now. The only thing keeping them from killing you is the state. This doesn't mean I support the state, I am merely pointing out the facts of the situation we are currently living in, and how absurd pan-sucessionism (based on some fantasy of discussion and agreements) actually is. You cannot reason with white nationalists. Racism is irrational, by definition. White nationalists are deranged, bloodthirsty psychopaths hell bent on domination and control.
"People could voluntarily band together based on their chosen criteria, and for example if a large portion anarchists decided that they all wanted to live in Berkeley CA (or the entirety of CA) they would do that. If a large group of fascists decided that they want to live in Virginia and make that their "ethno state" they could do that as long as we all agree not to interfere/transgress with each other."
LMAO! Listen to yourself. Do you not see the utter ahistorical nonsense of this claim? Do you think this has not already been tried? Look at Israel. Are they peacefully co-existing with Palestinians? Did the Hutus and Tutsi's peacefully co-exist in Rowanda? Did the European capitalists co-exist peacefully with the Native Americans? Did the Nazis peacefully co-exist with the Soviet Union? Do you honestly believe fascists are misunderstood pacifists and just want to be left alone and keep to themselves? Do you think communists with their world-wide revolution want to? C'mon man, this is too easy to refute. You can't be this naive, can you? What Bellamy is proposing is Walt Disney anarchy. It's pure fantasy based on a child-like Kumbaya vision of the world.
"Given the fact that there are fascists/white supremacists/ authoritarians/ etc. living in the US amongst us now, I do see the voluntary separating as more practical, viable, and desirable if the state disappeared."
If the state disappeared the white supremacists would simply resurrect it for their own purposes. They have already murdered more than 180 people over the last 20 years. You would see even more killings, more Mosque shootings, more Synagogue shootings, more shopping mall shootings, more stabbings, more people being run over by vehicles, etc. As bad as things are now, they would be exponentially worse without a state, unless anarchists decided to rise up and defend themselves and everyone else against the white nationalists by killing them. But then that would go against the whole idea of peaceful pan-successionism.