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it would actually be way easier to talk about that at the Vietnam war memorial...that freakin' wall of names...than in front of some gung-ho patriot, who would just resort to the "every country" defense, "love it or leave it", etc...

of course to the patriot, the statues, national anthems, pledge of allegiances, are supposed to inspire "reverence"...which goes way beyond the state, there's so much nostalgia, sacredness, "respect" (which to some, oh, is fading and it's horrible!) ingrained in many of the worlds authoritarian cultures. It makes me SICK!