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I've been following this thread, and its all over the place. For a start, Leway has been deleted as usual, what's new? And he was agreeing with Alan Watts view, so anon 18:07, Leway didn't call zen a religion, but you're contradicting his view, and he described the spirituality as a self-consciousness as a vector towards connecting sources of creaþive energy, that's NOT RELIGION, that's social energy!