06-28-2016 Anarchy Radio

  • Posted on: 28 June 2016
  • By: Anonymous (not verified)

LISTEN HERE: http://archive.org/details/AnarchyRadio06282016

Brexit -- phoney anti-globalization. The "anti-globalization" movement at its peak
15 years ago. Nihilism and its close cousin, post-modernism. Peak sand? Local
fat cats cash in as poor lose health coverage. Eugene Anarchists for Torrey (2000).
Europe's growing army of robots may become "electronic persons." Internet "Stirs
grief...we're all more alone than ever," Virginia Heffernan. Man marries phone in
Las Vegas. Ad of the week (Cylance), one call.



More disingenuity from John. He is clearly aware that there is a difference between the way hunter-gathers may have generally treated eachother and the way they may have treated colonizing forces. His imposition of the practice of sharing onto colonized people (that is, the imposition of the "value" of forced sharing with the colonizers, as his narrative implies) is an essentializing, western, colonial mentality. If you turn someone's life into a shithole, they aren't going to want to share with you. They will probably want to kill you.

He is pretending as if successful primal war style attacks won't kill a bunch of people.

why subject yourself to it then?

yeah, why don't you just listen to people you agree with, like an anarchist.

good point, its smart to find your antipodes, seek out things you disagree with and think about them...but come on, read the description beneath the silly goat picture, sounds like soundbite tabloid shit

Critique is important, obviously.

True, when hunter/gatherer societies are put under the microscope they're shown to have vulture culture values and tendencies equal to those of the colonizing culture, supporting the theory of physiological imperatives overriding ethical ones, especially during desperate times. Many H/G societies actually flourished after the colonization of their country, others became extinct, suggesting a communication breakdown or irreconcilable policies. We must remember that there is no unified H/G cosmology, and most self-imploded from their self-imposed religious dogma long before the arrival of the white man. Cultural entropy is a real and constant reminder that nothing is permanent and evolution is not a bad thing. Global warming is a sure thing, and in the end will increase the colonizing of temperate and arctic regions by dark skinned races, good luck to them all.

"hunter/gatherer societies (...) have vulture culture values and tendencies equal to those of the colonizing culture" What the f? Give me a reference for this.

"Many H/G societies actually flourished after the colonization of their country" Are you kidding me? name one.

Your entire comment lacks knowledge of the subject matter.

"... most (HGs) self-imploded from their self-imposed religious dogma long before the arrival of the white man." Name some please...

1- The Cargo Cultists of New Guinea
2-The Kikuyu tribe in Kenya, being one of many.
3-Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, Easter Islanders, etc etc etc

You are confusing indigenous people with hunter gatherers.
Cargo Cultists are an example of what in reference to your commentary?

The Kikuyu were not hunter gatherers (at the time of contact). They were farmers with a hierarchical social structure and with territorial aspirations. They reinforce anarcho-primiivist beliefs about the difference between hunter gatherers and agriculturalists, they don't in any way refute or challenge them.

The fact that you think the Aztecs, Mayans and Inca were hunter gatherers is almost embarrassingly uninformed. There are difficult questions one could ask the anarcho-primitivists and examples to support one's claims, but you have missed the mark by a mile.

Oh, so we're going to discard all indigenous representation in the PA bibliography and just concentrate on the "purist" H/Gs, which what, make up about 1% of the indigenous population, and about .0005% of the total global population. You are saying that 99.995% of the world's population are the only legitimate titles land-owners on the entire planet? Anyway, you should brush up on your knowledge of what the H/G identity actually is! A suburban wife dressed by Dior and hunting for the best price for sweet potatoes at the supermarket is intrinsically no different to a H'mung woman searching for the largest yams on a river bank. Same desires, same curiosity. I could call up a renowned Yale archeologist friend of mine to log onto this site and provide you with the modern up to date findings concerning psychological REM data correlations related to activity, but its 2 am where he lives, and I don't think he'd appreciate being woken up to reply back to verify this data and his new thesis to some sceptical do-gooder liberal leftist!

Sometimes at the supermarket yams are actually labelled as sweet potatoes and vice versa. That's why I get my Hmong wife to grow them up at our cottage by the lake. You could say she hunted for the right piece of property but I gathered the down payment

Yes yes, you are H/Gs even when attired in American Apparel, yes, never doubt your intrinsic indigenous nature.

Some people say indigenous schmindigenous, but I say if someone keeps scattering these American Apparel garments all over the forest, I'm going to keep gathering them up. Plus they look stunning on my Hmong wife when she property hunts. I tell her, you better not wear em while your tending our yams.

I'd keep her fully clothed at all times! She sounds pretty hot, and there are a lot of perverts out there, I'd even recommend a burka. Hope this advice doesn't sound sexist?

" Cargo Cultists are an example of what in reference to your commentary? "
From Wikipedia ___" A cargo cult is a millenarian movement first described in Melanesia which encompasses a diverse range of practices and occurring in the wake of contact with the commercial networks of colonizing societies. The name derives from the belief which began among Melanesians in the late 19th and early 20th century that various ritualistic acts such as the building of an airplane runway will manifest in the appearance of material wealth, particularly highly desirable Western goods (i.e., "cargo"), via Western airplanes, though the meaning of the behavior is more complex than a simple misunderstanding of capitalistic commodity fetishism on the part of the Melanesians."
Here we have an example of evolutionary cultural refinement, a no brainer, which also illustrates the universal psychological tendency to lean towards an eschatological cosmos, in this case the X-tian version. If this isn't embracing the colonialists modus operandam then you have a poor understanding of Pavlovian psychology.
Also___" Contact with colonizing groups brought about a considerable transformation in the way indigenous peoples of Melanesia have thought about other societies. Early theories of cargo cults began from the assumption that practitioners simply failed to understand technology, colonization, or capitalist reform; in this model, cargo cults are a misunderstanding of the trade networks involved in resource distribution and an attempt to acquire such goods in the wake of interrupted trade. However, many of these practitioners actually focus on the importance of sustaining and creating new social relationships, with material relations being secondary." This shows the irresistable progress of materialism and entropy within social systems.
Also___"The indigenous societies of Melanesia were typically characterized by a "big man" political system in which individuals gained prestige through gift exchanges. The more wealth a man could distribute, the more people in his debt, and the greater his renown. Those who were unable to reciprocate were identified as "rubbish men". Faced, through colonialism, with foreigners with a seemingly unending supply of goods for exchange, indigenous Melanesians experienced "value dominance". That is, they were dominated by others in terms of their own (not the foreign) value system; exchange with foreigners left them feeling like rubbish men." One sees how pride, prestige and hierarchical power structures dominate all societies, even the ' holier than thou ' indigenous ones. Also___
"The John Frum cult, one of the most widely reported and longest-lived, formed on the island of Tanna, Vanuatu. This movement started before the war, and only became a cargo cult afterwards. Cult members worshiped certain unspecified Americans having the name "John Frum" or "Tom Navy" who they claimed had brought cargo to their island during World War II and who they identified as being the spiritual entity who would provide cargo to them in the future " This may be the secret to acquiring a praxis to convert the masses to adopt existentialist-nihilist societies, by providing them with luxuries under the title " Intellectual Cargo ". Also__
"Theodore Schwartz was the first to emphasize that both Melanesians and Europeans place great value on the demonstration of wealth. "The two cultures met on the common ground of materialistic competitive striving for prestige through entrepreneurial achievement of wealth." Melanesians felt "relative deprivation" in their standard of living, and thus came to focus on cargo as an essential expression of their personhood and agency." This is what I described as the welcome arrival of colonialists in many cases liberating the indigenous/HG cultures of hierarchical dominance.

Zerzan wants to empower HGs when they are capable of THIS! ---- "The so-called "Johnson cult" started when the Lavongai people of New Hanover voted for the American President Lyndon B. Johnson in the first election of Papua New Guinea in February 1964."
Shouldn't anarchists be discarding these utopian indigenous platitudes and head in a different direction instead of living in the past?, .

So I saw the name on here a bunch and then years before I looked it up and saw a book fair photo of him. Fucking hell it was another few years before I figured out all the anon comments mentioning JZ were referring to the same guy. Just last month I pieced together what AP means. Now I think he might have some kind of radio. Still haven't read the guy. Looks nice though.

You'd learn more reading Edgar Rice Burrough's " Tarzan King of the Apes " Tarzan, the aristocrat John Clayton, foregoes his status and wealth and returns to his primitive apish family in the jungle. Does the plot ring a bell? Zerzan's ideology is a subconscious manifestation of a psychedelic hiking fetish allowed to gestate in the highly eccentric corridors of academia.

Except JZ isn't an academic. And I have no idea what 'psychedelic hiking' is.

Eating 'shrooms while hiking in the wilds, what hippies did in the 60s 70s

Living with mom until you're 35yrs old is a variation of academia!

Do you apply this racist colonialist apologia to North American peoples as well? I have a lot of indigenous friends who would love to meet you so you can tell them how they are better off since the conquerors came.

No no no!!! That is a totally different phenomena, being the original inhabitants of the most rapacious capitalist Empire in the world really dealt the cruelest and most genocidal policies of all. Please forgive my broad descriptions. They did give you horses and guns and improve conditions for a short time though, up until the industrial revolution.

Giving horses and guns created a degrading and violent dependence on horses and guns and colonizers well before the industrial rev.

Depends on which tribe. For the plains people the horse and rifle helped provide a bounty of Bison byproducts which resulted in a small population explosion

' The Inuit elders note climate change in the melting glaciers, deterioration of sealskin, and burns on seals, and disappearing sea ice. The attribute these changes in climate to changes in the sky.The tribal elders claim that the sun no longer rises where it used to rise. The days heat up more quickly and last longer. The stars and moon are also in different places in the sky and this affects the temperatures. This is a population that relies on the placement of the moon and stars for their survival as they live in total darkness during part of the year.'
I am not mocking this perspective, its just that it denies any objective analysis of very measurable and obvious facts, something I have noticed also in perspectives applied to everyday organic processes and relationships across the board, which I don't think advance any evolving future for these people, besides being dependent spectators for a colonizing culture intent on maintaining an archaic indigenous cosmology amongst natives, thus disempowering them and crippling the chances of any collective psychological evolution.
I'm not the bad guy here, if just stating facts.

Be the bad guy bro, be it. Holding back deteriorates all of our sealskin.

You mean embrace the hierarchy's official narrative of truth-Science. Empiricism is just a style of thinking. It isn't a superior way to understand the world. If you believe that then you are an ideologue and your empiricism-Science-is an ideology.

Stopped reading at "objective analysis".

HahahAhahAhAha! So funny yet depressing as looking at hipsters to be realizing how some people are still at Level 1 Paladdin.

What I find the most sickening aspect of getting old is when you see how the alienation from some past generation just keeps coming back in newer generations. Some idiots just won't learn, because their cult of society is just guided by faith.

Admit it.

How can I admit anything if I'm a faithless nihilist from East LA?

read "the forest people".

nobody approaches anthropology without their own perspective and values. but some seem to be more heavily laden with ideological points to "prove".

I hate the way JZ thinks H-Gs are beautiful and sensitive. Its pretty brutal and mannerisms are coarse out there, there was no aesthetic except a few crude makings on a cave wall and a womans plaited hairstyle and makeup. Most other things were slaughtering animals, attacking neighboring tribes and making slaves out of captives, discipling wives by beating them etc etc. They were mostly gruff speaking and resentful redneck male chauvinist types which Western anthropoligists and leftists have romanticized.

Another blanket statement from Zerzan about primitive life, plus completely missing the point that "mutual aid" between a few closely knit people is very different from "mutual aid" within a MASS SOCIETY. What Zerzan was arguing last week was that "sharing was the cardinal ethos" of hunter-gatherers but that "nihilists" thought sharing was "leftist" (while speaking of ITS).
Zerzan has such a capacity to spew disingenuous bullshit. His lecture of ITS and "nihilists" is the same as his lecture of anthropology; he twists and spins them as to fit things within his progressive humanist values, and what isn't there he makes it up.

Yep, Zerzan has shown in the past few years, from the examples you gave as well as others, that he is not post-left (or, in his preferred term, "anti-left") at all, really, but rather a kind of ultra-left green primitivist. Most of his critiques of Leftism are of how it fails to fully live up to the post-Christian values it espouses. JZ did a good job of highlighting the problems of agriculture and mass society, but he never recovered from the 60's.

Let's blame it on the hippy Christian 'shroom culture

What I have learned about H/G life comes mainly from Zerzan's various writings, from "The Original Affluent Society" by Sahlins, from "Anarchy Works" by Gelderloos, and from a few other writers. There is nothing in any of these writings which seeks to romanticise primitive life. What these writers are saying is that domestication,the foundation of civilization, is the origin of most,if not all, of our troubles,including war, slavery,and global techno-capitalism. Resisting, dismantling and abandoning our hyper-domestication and working toward building community will not be easy or simple. It will take a variety of efforts,individual and communal, and will involve a lot of experimentation. There is no one way.One may want to engage with "insurgent resistance" as practiced by Kevin Tucker or create an eco-village or do something else.

what about aromatherapy?

Who nose when they will have the scents to abandon the ol' factory smellter and cease putting their noses to the grinding wheel?

You gotta be kidding. They are worth reading for sure but their arguments tend to massively generalize regarding large amounts of hunter-gatherers and any sort of western academic thinking that arose out of colonizing mentalities and liberal humanism (where the vast majority of their sources come from) should be treated with the utmost skepticism.

I guess you just aren't keeping up with primitivist literature and developments. Most negative commenters here, like yourself, are the ones making 'massive generalizations'. You still seem to think that there are only a couple of primitivist authors-basically John Zerzan and Kevin Tucker and a couple of outdated anthropologists that they rely on for back up. But this isn't the case. Do just bare minimum digging and you will find all sorts of articulate writers, survivalists, thinkers, fighters, dreamers and increasingly large numbers of professional anthropologists who are exploring primitivist outlooks that together constitute a quite diverse set of opinions. This is primitivism today.

Plus there are all the green anarchists who have taken from primitivism and explored their own directions like the insurrectionary subsistence of Seaweed and other BC anarchists. There are also projects like the paleo nodes in Alaska and the people initiating them that are examples of unique approaches from the primitivist spectrum.

And by the way, with the difference between immediate-return and delayed-return hunter gatherers now having been made and explored, its quite wrong of you to take the point of view of 'massive generalizing regarding large numbers of HGs'. Breaking up HGs based on basic delineations like nomadic vs sedentary and IR vs DR, really makes your accusation sound like a personal, emotional reaction rather than one based in any knowledge resulting from following the development of the tendency.

Just check out a few online discussion groups as an example. There are some that have thousands of members. John Zerzan is just the original anarcho-primitivist, but he certainly isn't the most interesting or contemporary or active. I sense that you have a need to deflate perceived celebrities to make yourself sound smart. Why not just engage in some meaningful debate with a few of the thousands of others who are interested in seeing what primitivism has to offer and where its weak points are.

I have done considerable digging and do not know whom you mean by: "all sorts of articulate writers, survivalists, thinkers, fighters, dreamers and increasingly large numbers of professional anthropologists who are exploring primitivist outlooks that together constitute a quite diverse set of opinions."

Have you asked your parent's yet?

what is a "yet"? and who said it belongs exclusively to your parents?

Only one parent, otherwise the apostrophe would need to follow the plural s.

It could be written " Have you asked for your parental yet? " It depends on whether a "yet" is an objective noun. " Parents' if an adverb of time

Typo " Parents' " if a noun, "Parental' if an adverb of time

Improving Anarchist Literacy Foundation

Parental if an adverb of time and a yet is an abstract noun describing a concept, like ' permission '

I was referring partly to the very many highly informed and articulate folks I have encountered in online forums. Many of them have revealed that they are anthropologists or run wilderness schools or are just interested in developing their understanding of the story of humans. Some are involved in eco-activism and defense of the wilderness or are standing with indigenous people in their reclaiming of their traditional territories.

I also mentioned the author Seaweed and the other very interesting folks in BC, Canada, who have taken from both primitivism and insurrectionary ideas to create their own personalized tendency.
see https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/seaweed-land-and-freedom or the BC blackout link I posted above

There are others like Jeriah Bowser http://www.jeriahbowser.com/

See too http://forums.feralculture.com/ for some highly intelligent, informed debates and conversations that aren't afraid of taking from or starting with, primitivist ideas.

But mostly the people I am referring to are just all the unique individuals I have met over the decades who have not only been influenced by JZ, David Watson, Fredy Perlman and anthropologists like Woodburn ( see https://egalitarian.wikispaces.com/Immediate-Return+v.+Delayed-Return+Sy...)
but who have developed their own ideas and practices based largely from a primitivist starting point.

It boggles my mind that people think that Jz and his pal Kt are the only primitivists or that their primitivism is somehow 'primitivism'. Anarchists need to break away from their awe of celebrities and be their own celebrities.

And regardless of JZs relevance as an original thinker today, he has had an enormous influence on anarchists throughout the world for the past thirty years. His books have been translated into probably ten or so languages and his speaking tours are well attended. Perhaps he is getting repetitive or ideological, but he broke new ground and in that sense, along with the post leftists, helped anarchism regenerate when most anarchists were stuck in the 19th century in terms of direction we were heading.

I am very familiar with contemporary discourse and see out a wide variety of thinkers. Your original post did not mention these however and I was addressing the ones you did with the exception of gelderloos as I have yet to read that particular book. Generalizing as ir and dr are indeed mass generalizations. Often hgs are more one way or the other. It can be a useful distincton but there is not a solid line and every band is different. You clearly aren't aware of the strong degree western civilized thinking pervades "well known" primitivist and especially anthropological and psychological academic arguments. This is why I recommend people interested in rewilding become familiar with the rest of the post left.

There are too many anonymouses running around here. You are confusing me other commenters.

Anyway. ..In most discussions I have had with other people interested in HG lifeways and whether the delineation between IR and DR might become ideological if we aren't careful, almost every single person said " of course". I know that Seaweed has written about this, noting that nature is infinite gradations, not clear lines, so expressions like sedentary and nomadic or IR and DR, are difficult to pin down precisely in the organic world so we can't base our theories on them, rather they are just helpful insights. But there is an empirical quality to the general difference and it more than often seems like the best explanation of why some bands were hierarchical and some not.

I'm still not sure who the primitivists you are referring to are exactly. Are you just talking about Zerzan and Tucker? I think primitivists are too diverse to generalize about. There are academics and ideologues in every tendency sure, but no more within primitivist circles than others.

As for a high 'degree of western civilized thinking' pervading primitivist arguments. Of course! It pervades your and my thinking too. It pervades post-leftist perspectives, surrealist perspectives, individualist outlooks, etc. Its difficult to recognize let alone to shed the ideological layers and belief systems we've been born into. I'm not sure why you highlight 'western' though. Eastern civilized thinking isn't that different.

Western cultural values would be more accurate than the vague " Western thinking" expression, Eastern cultural values are different!! Same thing with the commonly used Judeo-X-tian label, totally innaccurate.

I meant JZ and KT and the decently large (at least in terms of all the people interested in primitivism) number of followers they have who take their ideas as the words of gods, as well as pretty much any academic, commonly anthropologists and ecopsychologists, who make primitivistish arguments within academic context, e.g. salins, woodburn, glenndinning.

I generally agree with most of what you've written.

"There are too many anonymouses"

make that anonymice

Kevin Tucker used the term "insurgent subsistence" which is a form of resistance.

Actually Kevin Tucker just published an interview with others who use the expression. I don't think he uses the expression or that it is something he personally advocates. It originally came from a group of friends associated with the author Seaweed, who uses it in his writing. The same people also use the expressions insurrectionary subsistence and organically self-organized subsistence movements.

Sounds like a liberal weiner-word to me.

Except that as far as I know, most of the people using the expression have literally been standing on the front lines with indigenous people for many years in their fight to stop industrial expansion in their territories. They are taking risks as well as living in/experimenting with ways that are consistent with their philosophy.

see for instance https://bcblackout.wordpress.com/

Thanks for the correction.I think Kevin Tucker used the expression "insurgent subsistence" in a Black and Green article,but I do not recall the context. If he was quoting someone, then the term still maintains its potency. What he is attempting to do in Canada is important and anarchists should be paying attention to it

Thanks for the link, watched a couple videos with the Bot, she's quite advanced and ambitious.

Here is the link to the KCRA story about black blocs that john mentioned:

Dear Brave Soul,

I have kicked this comment out to hereabouts because when they get thin like that everything seems to be an exclamation point and that bugs me!!!! I hate exclamation points!!!!

Good thing you got a translator because all that "snarling guttural non-verb non-noun Whorfian dialect" (in your capable phraseology) is indeed difficult to pick out, even for an experienced hand like me. It all seems that the same dried turds shat out over and over again, ad nauseum in repetition do we thrust. Are you sure there are only 6 actual sounds in the entire language? Mein Gott! Its our impression here at the Rewrite Department that there are only 6 actual ideas expressed in the combined total of all 5.76 million comments biffed up and barfed out by the EMILE9000 over the last spew years, and even fewer ideas in any random pasting shat out by the poxy lips of Le Way or by the puckered mouth-anus of the Bi-Sclepps KKKritik. Six sounds or six ideas? What does it matter? Someone has got to translate that bullshit into English-motherfucker-do-you-speak-it and sure I'm glad it isn't me. Pay the translator whatever he wants then cancel the check after he's left the office, I say. We must protect our bottom line!

PS. My assistant tell me that John Denver isn't dead and that he faked his own death just like Elvis Costello did back in 1977.

Yes, that's right, the 6 quintessential sounds that create the Whorfian Dyslexium. Onomatopoetically represented by these 6 universal noises :===

1) Explosive human fart in tiled cubicle.(fortississimo)
2) Short crisp elephant trumpet (staccato)
3) Bear grunt (accelerando)
4) Underwater fart (morendo)
5) Human baritone dry-reaching (gustoso)
6) High pitched scream in basement (dramatico)
So you can see that if combined into infinite combinations and sequences within a spatial relational corridor, and repeated infinitely over and over again, one will eventually arrive at some conclusion about something in relation to some yet to be realized context which is not related to anything anyway, right?

Indefinite conclusions about something in relation to something yet to be realized is what the Spatial Plenum is all about. Yes, I checked. Vive la differance!

What do prinitivists have to say about the idea that natural resources COULD be extracted ethically? Along the lines of what this guy is talking about:
I.E.- slaves diamonds etc used to be bought from anyone who could use force to control it. Using cilivized menthods to end the buying of resources unfairly taken/stolen from people living on the land the resources came from could end the major argument primitivists have against civilization.

The alienated mass murder of the first world comes to bangladesh as the global first world and the global third world becomes more homogenous across national borders: http://nyti.ms/29ogZdc
Globalized class society and the hyper-civilized alienation and mass murder that accompanies it becomes more smoothed out around the world.

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