Anarcho-Primachismo: Primitivism Or Patriarchy?

  • Posted on: 1 June 2019
  • By: Ria

*This critique was submitted to Wild Resistance May 9th. There was no reply. It can be found at https://veganprimitivist.wordpress.com/2019/06/01/anarcho-primachismo-pr...

“Patriarchy and ecofeminism are distinct from sex or gender. Patriarchy is evidenced in behaviors based on dogma of exploitive domination over others and Earth that assault primal attachments. Ecofeminism is liberation from civilizing agencies, agendas, roles, expectations and biases, reawakening organic lifeway centered on ethos of interconnection in thriving habitat.” Ria

From the secluded intersection of Vegan & Primitivist I’ve struggled to submit an unrestrained essay to the impressive and inspiring anarcho-primitivist journal Wild Resistance 1 not offensive to their framing of humans as natural hunters. Then I stumbled on the film Into the Forest 2 and was shocked I’d never heard it mentioned in anprim circles. The book3 on which the film was based was even more intensely provocative. Side-stepping the contentious vegan-hunter divide, I wrote a review4 of the film and the book for submission.
Their only reply left me first bewildered, then driven to explode the vegan ecofeminist dam:
“The sole reason that I don't recommend this book anymore and it pains me not to because otherwise it's such a fucking good book is because of the head scratching incest scene. I so wish she hadn't done that, it was unnecessary and will remain the reason I don't include the book in my recommendations.”5
By ‘incest scene’ he’s referring to a page in the book where the older teen sisters make love.6 The passage is not graphic. The book is listed as ‘young adult’ literature (i.e. appropriate for teens). This sister love is not pedophilia or nonconsensual, and obviously couldn’t result in a deformed pregnancy. Was this book behind the film shown in mainstream theaters truly too ‘head scratching’ for an anprim journal editor to embrace? Civilization imposes a dizzying array of morality-based rules, and it’s so very odd to see primitivists not only blindly obeying, but policing them. The sex scene reaction is just the opener exposing reflexive imposition of moral authority that is patriarchy incarnate in anprim authority.

Into the Forest’s Controversial Sex Scene Unplugged
Just as in the Indian film Fire7where the sexual relationship between sisters-in-law is an integral first step to liberate themselves from civilization’s customs such as male-female pair bonding entrapment,8 so too is the sisters sexual intimacy in Into the Forest liberation from civilization’s boot on basic instincts. That “unnecessary” scene is pivotal in signaling just how far the sisters are removing themselves from modern culture as they choose wild life, how they are unflinchingly shedding their chains of indoctrinated morality. After this scene they move past their grief and yearning, extinguishing all lingering hopes for return to civilization. Their rewilding begins in earnest. But if you are programmed to feel deep disgust for lesbian, teen or sister sex, you may miss the deeper meanings behind the physical act.
Have humans always placed restrictions on ‘incest’? In Us, Relatives: Scaling and Plural Life in a Forager World9 anthropologist Nurit Bird-David details how in the most common early human grouping still existing to this day, small scale foragers’ core pairing strategy is intermarriage between siblings sets through generations, including first and second cousin marriages. She reveals how this has gone negligently unreported by anthropologists due to western civilization and large scale culture bias. “Were three married couples from two sets of siblings to reside in an apartment building in a modest-sized town, their pluriconnections would stand out. They would not pass unnoticed; in fact, they might be the talk of the town.”10 Resisting bias against natural sexuality, in a booklet of essays and online comment threads Child Sexuality, feminist Chris Bearchell’s reprint from Coming On (c/o Queer Anarchist Network)11 tells true stories of teen women initiating lesbian sex with older women, in the end demonstrating how civilization’s morals and laws “are means of control that back up the more insidious, less formal controls of the family structure and socialization.”12 Have humans always placed restrictions on youth sex? In an excerpt from his book Sexual Friendship: A New Dynamic in Relationships anthropologist Richard Walters reports on the modern myth of childhood juxtaposed with freedom and long term happiness from native children having sexual relationships, including the Mangaia of Polynesia, the Maori, Eskimos, and the Lepcha.13
On what grounds do anprims think they are justified to cherry pick which parts of primitive lifeways are worthy of return? How can humans liberate themselves from civilization without liberating their sexuality? Could it be that anprims are so blinded to their own subliminal clinging to modern prescripts that they unintentionally intend to take patriarchal conventions with them into rewilding? Do they subconsciously or conscientiously believe sexuality in rewilding should be limited to adult heterosexual monogamous pair bonding, anything else still shunned? Will they repress children’s sexuality with the authoritarian shaming and punishment of today’s conventional parents and society?
While incidences of gorilla lesbian sexuality were only recently recorded in 201614, sibling and youth sex seem yet to be substantively scientifically studied. The reason for the negligent reluctance to study these topics may be that gorillas are too much like humans, making it too uncomfortably contrary to contemporary cultural normative. Even people who see through the veil don’t want the controversy; affiliation with taboos could have expulsive implications. Contrarily, feminist Shere Hite’s studies and published reports reveal raw realities on human sexuality such as in The Hite Report on the Family: Growing Up Under Patriarchy.15 While for decades and to this day she boldly persists sharing stories behind the veil often focusing on female sexuality, her liberation work remains despised by patriarchal people and groups.16 But refusal to take on hardest topics to avoid stirring machismo’s beehive leaves an academic style journal entrenched in itself.

Banishing Rationale Banishing Vegans
Paralleling this WR bias suppression, a friend attempted to submit biting prose to WR and editor Kevin Tucker replied that they don’t want anything vegan. (personal communication, April 25, 2019) Huh? A nutshell of what I gather from Tucker’s logic proceeds like this: There is no proof of any vegan primitive person ever, which serves as absolute refutation of any vegan primitivism ever, and it is even possible that early humans hunted before known weapons by long distance outrunning prey into exhaustion (and expending ample energy eating the animal’s flesh raw?), though it is not possible to leave evidence of persistence hunting because no signs remain, so if you suggest anything other than hunting humans I’ll quickly dismiss it and stand in the way of others hearing it as well. If there is no evidence of either persistence hunting or vegan primitivism, is patriarchal man-the-hunter bias revealed in attachment to one and aversion to the other?
Despite that it cannot be confirmed, Tucker raises the idea of long distance foot runner hunting origins in his Black and Green Review No 3 article Hooked on a feeling: the loss of community and the rise of addiction, writing that persistence hunting is perhaps humans’ earliest form of hunting, it was widespread amongst hunter-gatherers, but it cannot be proven only because it leaves no tangible forensics.17 In Origins of the human predatory pattern: the transition to large-animal exploitation by early hominins, paleoscientists propose exploitation of large mammals began with pounding stones scavenging bone marrow pre-dating flaked stone tools required to cut flesh by a million years or more. After earliest bipedal primates added scavenging to their long-lasting foraging dietway, they were only able to access parts of killed animals that predators and other scavengers were unable to reach, fatty bone marrow and brains. Scavenging early humans left evidence of smashed skulls and other bones.18
When flat fingernailed biologically herbivore humans19 first hunted they’d need a tool to cut flesh. If first human hunters were persistence hunters, after outrunning mammals deer sized and larger in grasslands and savannas they would have needed to cut the animal’s flesh quickly, not just to prevent rot but to avoid humans’ own predators. During times some humans first hunted they were also prey to ferocious fauna like saber toothed cats who could not only move in on humans’ kills but make a meal of the human as well.20 During this time of mighty megafauna is it not a stretch of imagination that humans would risk running out in the open in midday heat, a behavior that not only exposes them but could trigger fiercer famished predators’ instincts to charge in? Early humans more likely walked softly as foxes, taking refuge in wooded shadows and nooks with a sense of vulnerability lingering lifelong. Their earliest long distance running was running for their lives from predators,21 or passively scavenging by following vultures, taking cover in a position to observe from a safe distance if the predator leaves behind a part of their meal, and when all is calm, stealthily running in to snatch up bones and carrying the marrow containers to a concealed spot for processing and eating.22
In the book From Biped to Strider: The Emergence of Modern Human Walking, Running, and Resource Transport, David Carrier proposes in his chapter The running-fighting dichotomy and the evolution of aggression in hominids that it was invention of weapons that allowed early humans to shift from face-to-face fighting to long distance running. Hominids’ shift from arboreal to terrestrial freed their hands to hold weapons such as rocks and branches for male-male skirmishes.23 In a few million years adding scavenged bone marrow fat (not tissue) into the diet grew brain size24 sparking a new creativity, updating weapons from simple sticks and stones technologies to wooden clubs and spears with sharpened tips or later stone arrows. Scavenging fat led to the big-brained inventive human. Hunting came after.
Some speculate that humans’ first hunts were ambushing in groups from trees, lying in wait for lone large mammals to stroll into their trap area, then jumping down to beat them with clubs. Even weaponless ambush-chasing-trapping strategy would require a killing weapon and cutting tool in the end. Stampeding large mammals such as ancient horses, rhinos and bison off cliffs is not persistence hunting, and fire was used to initiate the herds into stampede.25 But what is the significance of pinpointing when and how humans first strategically killed other animals?
In her article Evidence for meat-eating by early humans, paleoanthropologist Briana Pobiner notes “Soon after butchery marks were recognized on Early Stone Age fossils, articles on the ‘hunting or scavenging debate' in which hunting is implicitly viewed as behaviorally superior to and more ‘modern' than scavenging increasingly proliferated in the literature.”26 Craving to perceive primate humans as natural hunters can be interpreted by those who retain innate compassion for animals as speciesism, an exploitive domination over others that assaults wild co-existence and connections. Evidence of original lifeways is cherry picked to match points of view in such a way that exposes predispositions. Would it mean anything to Tucker if there was indisputable evidence of early human vegans? Do anprims embrace other earlier human behaviors, like rape, cannibalism or infanticide?27 An ecofeminst perspective sees primate human ‘progressions’ in hunting as fomenting patriarchal supremacy over others, concurrently dividing sexes in specializations, hierarchy and roles. Rise of human hunters simmered a long while then boiled into altering and dominating entire bioregions, colonizing the planet, then civilization in its current concentrated manifestation.

Early Humans’ Step Outside Habitat Connectivity
Paradoxically, the rise of the ‘natural’ human hunter accompanies the rise of the human path out of nature. While acknowledging that some foragers sometimes eat animals, if primate humans have a diet mainstay choice between foraging plants or killing animals, what are their selection’s implications on the nature of who they are, and their habitat role? Does hierarchy, domestication and civilization stem from division of labor, such as by sexes, and from speciesism? If so, did civilization have roots in earliest hunting humans? What is the human animal habitat range? What provokes humans into overstepping their habitat boundaries? Acknowledging that it is natural for carnivores and omnivores to hunt, with humans being herbivores in biology28, is the intrinsic sense of compassion for animals fully intact for humans who are omnivorous in behavior? Is there a direct correlation between some humans honing hunting weaponry and strategies, and humans degrading and colonizing the planet?29
While foraging humans require an intimate familiarity with plants and mushrooms to subsist, hunting animals does not involve the same risks of toxins and is feasible in colder weather shifts outside humans’ wild habitat. In essence, once humans refined killing large mammals, they could combine that capability with taming and herding to exploit animals as walking larders.30 How does herding animals into new territories compare to hunting wild animals already inhabiting the new territories? Both had and have a harder environmental impact than foraging.31
In his article Tucker gives detailed insight into how the traditional life of the semi-acculturated Rarámuri (Tarahumara) Indians in the Sierra Madre Occidental Mountains of Mexico has been impacted by waves of colonization.32 A bioregions’ last pristine state is typically considered to be the time of earliest remaining human inhabitation, such as in the study. RaráMuri Bird Knowledge and Environmental Change in the Sierra Tarahumara, Chihuahua, Mexico.33 But what was the habitat condition before and during initial human encroachments? In her article Beyond Multispecies Ethnography: Engaging with Violence and Animal Rights in Anthropology, anthropologist Helen Kopnina critiques radical anthropology thusly:
Anthropologists have mediated between discriminated communities and outsiders… But can anthropological advocacy be applied to the case of violence against nonhumans? ...human and nonhuman lives are entangled and emplaced within wider ecological relationships, converging in the so-called multispecies ethnography, but failing to account for exploitation. Reflecting on this omission, this article discusses the applicability of engaged anthropology to the range of issues from the use of nonhumans in… food production industry, to habitat destruction, and in broader contexts involving violence against nonhumans. Concluding that the existing forms of anthropological engagement are inadequate in dealing with the massive scale of nonhuman abuse, this article will suggest directions for a radical anthropology that engages with deep ecology, animal rights,… and ecological justice.34
Humans’ first forays into the habitat of others appreciably impacted biotic and abiotic communities. Avoiding considering first humans’ impacts is suggestive of human supremacy bias, or speciesism. Humans’ initial invasions tended to have a hallmark of overhunting, dramatically plummeting habitat homeostasis.35, 36 Once their predators and easiest targets were eliminated or dominated into submission, human invaders tended to reduce hunting. They settled more into association with the remaining life, transitioning by learning the plants, mushrooms, moss and lichen, foraging and gathering in a regenerative way as staple foods and medicines.
Archaeological sites reveal abundance of herbal medicines in association with earlier human fossils and artifacts. A 2017 DNA archaeologist Karen Hardy analyzed Neanderthal dental calculus found two individuals in a cave in El Sidrón Spain who subsisted off a vegan diet including mushrooms, pine nuts, tree bark, and moss. One of them had a tooth abscess and medicinal yarrow and chamomile, bitter plants with little nutritional value.37 In a 2019 Evolutionary Anthropology paper, Hardy analyzed plants from seven archaeological sites of human ancestors. Of the 212 plant species identified, around 60 percent were medicinal and edible to humans, 15 percent were non-edible, but may also have been used medicinally.38 In the same sample geneticists later found DNA from poplar — a tree containing natural pain-killer akin to aspirin — as well as a type of penicillin. It’s possible that this Neanderthal woman in pain from an oral infection, took poplar for pain relief, chamomile as a soothing agent and an antibiotic fungus to counteract the infection.39 A stable lifeway emerged benefiting humans and others. Ways of nourishing the habitat evolved into an intricate mutualism that in time took on intentionality, a primal forest management of sorts. Some call it wild tending.40
But for reasons including environmental changes, novelty and adaptive inventions, early humans continued expanding past their home ranges, becoming adept at colonizing, overhunting, controlling predators, and eventually herding tamer animals as portable food resources into others’ habitats.41 Before humans domesticated animals via herding, plants largely comprised the staple diet, meat was a rarity.42 Rarámuri no longer forage and gather wild plants but they garden less nutritious domesticated varieties as their food mainstay. Still, they eat enough assorted plant foods to satisfy all their nutrition requirements; their occasional meat is not required for their health.43 Nutrition science supports that while many humans today are omnivorous in behavior, Homo sapiens primate remains herbivorous in biology.44 From earliest human’s ancestors before hunting and colonizing the planet, the subsistence diet was almost if not entirely vegan.45 Since coming down from the trees human groups and individuals have swayed back and forth in the complexion of their relations and assemblages with nonhuman animals. Those fully in touch with their compassion for all animals remain and resist, longing for a wild forager-gatherer lifeway interconnected in thriving habitat in roles increasing symbiosis and diversity.

Natural Human Vegan
Despite anprim’s and civilization’s man-the-mighty-hunter storyline, there have been vegan primitive people. What speaks powerfully to me is enduring innate impulses toward veganism, especially countless independent instances of pre-indoctrinated pre-schooler rebellions against eating animals that rise up worldwide, such as shown in a video compilation.46 When some children first find out they’re being fed animals, their intrinsic empathy for animals launches a passionate revolt. Early humans created mythologies and rites in order to overcome their innate aversion to harming animals by hunting them.47 But if it’s science that pleases you, you’ll lag behind if you don’t keep up with the latest, such as the 2017 DNA analysis of two vegan Neanderthals’ dental calculus.48 Yet man-the-mighty-hunting-caveman mythology lives on, rationalizing enormous harm to domesticated and wild animals and their habitats, including humans’.49, 50
Without DNA, foraging lifeway leaves so little trace it is limited to indirect evidence, such as in a study reported in April 2019, Insights into the Timing, Intensity and Natural Setting of Neanderthal Occupation from the Geoarchaeological Study of Combustion Structures: A Micromorphological and Biomarker Investigation of El Salt, unit Xb, Alcoy, Spain. Evidence from eleven Paleolithic hearths suggests short-term occupations by high-mobility low-impact possibly seasonal bands. Their lifeway did not degrade the habitat as topsoils remained rich in herbivore excrements and herbaceous plant residues. The herbivore excrement suggests presence of mega-fauna. There was no evidence of conifers in the topsoils, but there was evidence of pine cone charcoal in the ash, suggesting fuel sources were carried distances to hearths. Fire setting was under some level of control, yet researchers report “no anthropogenic components were identified in any of them, suggesting that the activities carried out around them did not involve… cooking practices involving deposition of bone or char residues in the fire.”51 While suggestive of nomadic folio-frugivore foraging, these particular primate humans only left indirect evidence for interpretation. In civilization’s patriarchal sciences, studies such as these also have little impact on biased over-ascription of hunting to an entire group, even an entire species, when any evidence of hunting is found.

How Speciesism Overtook All
In a manner portrayed in Andrew Schmookler’s The Parable of the Tribes: The Problem of Power in Social Evolution,52 an ecofeminist theory on origins of civilization may be summed up thusly: in step after step, expanding weaponized aggressive hunting humans overtook uncontentious humans and nonhuman animals in spasms with intervals and steady waves. Over a long stretch of time nomadic bands with a gentle-on-Earth foraging lifeway were overcome by and integrated into a predatory, dominating approach that spread the species across the world. After humans controlled all land, floods of even more brutal, more dominating humanways overtook and incorporated weaker others. By the end Earth was scorched by the fire of intensified human exploitation. Primate humans mistakenly believed that by dominating other animals they had freed themselves from their animal selves in supreme power evolutionarily bestowed upon them, repressing that they had snared themselves in dependence on the death spiral of ‘progress.’ Petrified to free themselves from their own trap, they pretended it was ‘natural’ and marched onward holding torches of supremacist speciesism higher and higher, eventually triggering a stampede toward the cliff’s edge, plagued with primal inner unease.
In an interview on Final Straw Radio Tucker declared, “We do better as hunter-gatherers. The only egalitarian societies to have ever existed long term in any way in the history of humanity has been nomadic hunter-gatherer societies.”53 No long term foragers or forager-gatherers have been egalitarian? In this overstatement, overgeneralization is indicative of authoritarian man-the-hunter bias. On what basis does anyone claim to know the lifeway and dietway of every egalitarian people and individuals that comprise the group? There is a montage of evidence on hunters behaving in ways quite contrary to flowing with nature,54 which calls into question validity of correlations between hunting and egalitarianism that cannot simply and continually be excused away. While Tucker and I agree that “(P)atriarchy is one of the first side effects of civilization,” is human primate colonizing via killing en masse egalitarian? Does it matter if “(W)e do better as hunter-gatherers” if others do not fare well under the human primates’ brutal rise into top predator position? Is rationalizing that primate humans are entitled to inhabit the entire planet as top predators because that is their natural evolutionary trajectory not patriarchal speciesism?
A more open and empathetic lens exposes raw realities behind patriarchal denials, such as the 2018 survey Subsistence Practices, Past Biodiversity, and Anthropogenic Impacts Revealed by New Zealand-wide Ancient DNA Survey revealing the evidenced story of less than 2,000 aboriginal Polynesians first to arrive to New Zealand. Subsistence hunting impacted fauna diversity, specifically driving moa, sea lions, fur seals, penguins and others to extinction or extirpation from the mainland. Elephant seals were driven from their breeding grounds.55 This story had many repetitions, same plot different characters and settings. Much farther back some early humans degraded life on Earth via hunting megafauna to extinction. The journal Science published a study in 2018, Body size downgrading of mammals over the late Quaternary led by the University of New Mexico’s Felisa Smith, showing early human hunting-caused extinction events starting at least 125,000 years ago, roughly 75,000 years after Homo sapiens entered the scene. The magnitude and scale of this extinction event surpassed any other recorded in the last 66 million years. Evidence is also clear that the extinctions were not due to climate change:
“Elephant-dwarfing wooly mammoths, elephant-sized ground sloths and various saber-toothed cats highlighted the array of massive mammals roaming Earth between 2.6 million and 12,000 years ago. Prior research suggested that such large mammals began disappearing faster than their smaller counterparts — a phenomenon known as size-biased extinction.
…as humans migrated out of Africa, other size-biased extinctions began occurring in regions and on timelines that coincide with known human migration patterns, the researchers found. Over time, the average body size of mammals on those other continents approached and then fell well below Africa’s. Mammals that survived during the span were generally far smaller than those that went extinct.
…the research team found little support for the idea that climate change drove size-biased extinctions during the last 66 million years. Large and small mammals seemed equally vulnerable to temperature shifts throughout that span”
University of Nebraska-Lincoln’s Kate Lyons, who co-authored the study with Smith and colleagues from Stanford University and the University of California, San Diego, went on to say that restructuring from large to small mammals has “profound implications” for the world’s ecosystems. Large mammals tend to be herbivores, devouring large quantities of vegetation and effectively transporting the associated nutrients around an ecosystem. When they disappear, the small mammals are poor substitutes for important ecological functions.56 In their rise to power, whether intentional or not, the human species traded away their wild compassion, their wild life, the life of wild others, and the whole wild world.

Toward Embracing Ecofeminism
In the Final Straw interview Tucker stated “Out of all the social sciences I think anthropology has really led the way in terms of upending patriarchy, upending a lot of the colonial background, upending a lot of the ecological notions… This is our link to understanding the consequences civilization has had across the world.”57 That is exactly what radical anthropologist Helen Kopnina does in her calling to include nonhuman animals in advocacy,58 and what comparative anthropologist Layla AbdelRahim does in her thematic study on human predation. In AbdelRahim’s interview with Puntickovani Chrobaci, entitled Layla AbdelRahim on anarcho-primitivism, red anarchism and veganism, she correlates civilization with predatory humans:
Because, as I argue in the book,59 the premise in civilisation is to consume, kill, and colonise, it yields an anthropology rooted in predation: both killing and rape. Namely, civilised knowledge constructs the human as the ultimate predator and the world existing in a “natural” hierarchical “food chain” to be controlled, reproduced, and consumed. Again, observation of the principles of life reveals that hierarchical systems of subsistence are parasitic and unsustainable since, in order to thrive, life needs diversity, mutuality, and symbiosis. By constructing an anthropology rooted in consumption of labour, flesh, and life, civilisation thus yields unviable cultures of socio-environmental relationships and hence we are witnessing the anthropogenic death of the world, which is literally being devoured by civilised human animals. This is an emergency situation and we do not have the luxury to reflect on whether we can “go back” or just scamper along trying to salvage our dying bones.60
Man-the-mighty hunter myth as ‘natural order’ justifying early human primates spread across the planet sheds light on modern humans’ reluctance to admit that early humans left swaths of environmental predation impacts,61, 62 as well as their disregard for other animals’ experiences as humans invaded and obliterated their habitats and predated on them. Reaction to these realities is typically rationalization, denial, silence and willful malicious ignorance. Are waves 63, 64 of colonizing predatory humans more than mere generalist and niche opportunists surviving by natural right, no matter if it is a bloodbath ending in detriment of intact ecosystems? How are barriers to seeing human primates as something other than obligate hunters not denial that manifests as “sets of behaviors based on dogma of exploitive domination over others and Earth that assault primal attachment?” (excerpt from top quote)
To open one’s ethos for reconsideration is a vulnerable deed, holding the uneasiness of exposing oneself outside one’s comfort zone. How would WR feel about requesting Layla AbdelRahim65 submit one of her pieces on her foundational theme human predation, including human exploitation of nonhuman animals? How would WR feel about requesting self-described dread-headed freak and playful savage, nihilist, green anarchist, vegan, straight edge queer who runs Warzone Distro,66 Flower Bomb67 to write an anprim hard-hitting vegan-themed piece for its audience? If WR has time and inspiration for a written discussion with me not on sister-sister love, but on my preferred focus, civilization through colonization, why decolonizing the planet is essential for both primitive humans and thriving life across Earth, 68 I’m open to it.
The implications of ethos can linger exponentially. While WR builds an academically intelligent case, if a case has patriarchy embedded in its premise, in practice it manifests in actions such as policing sex in a conformist culture, promoting hunting in today’s nature degraded world, and ignoring humans’ entitlement to live everywhere on the planet during this human-caused sixth mass extinction event.69 WR bringing attention to indigenous land protectors and animal liberators is appreciated and vital. But with so many anprims attempting to return their lifeways into hunter-gatherers exploiting ‘resources’ in nature’s death spiral, what does anprim do to defend and assist wildlife and their habitat from rewilders?
Humans have proven that they can adapt. Anarcho-primitivism urgently needs action and clarity adapting its habitat role from takers to givers, from rewilding themselves in struggling wild remnants to protecting and rewilding the remnants. In these times bushmeat hunting is driving a global extinction crisis70, and domesticated animal agriculture is using 1/3 of global arable land for animal feed, and 26% of terrestrial surface for grazing.71 Ecofeminist dietway can take many forms gentler on Earth. Urban anprims who choose to explore rewilding themselves can adopt a less impactful local foraging diet 72, 73 from ‘weeds’ before they spread into nearby natural areas, giving wild lands and threatened species time to regenerate. Anprims can scavenge from civilization’s excess o plenty, or glean fruits and nuts from nearby trees before they overripen.74 In larger swaths of remnant wilds they can learn which species are invasive to the local indigenous habitat and assist indigenous species recovering by harvesting the human-introduced invasives.75, 76, 77 In everyday compassionate dietway ecofeminist anprims step down from the civilized human primate pseudo-role of world’s top predator and give space for return of habitats supporting true indigenous nonhuman top predators.
“Widening the circles of inclusion and involvement,”78 illuminating ecofeminist perspective within anarcho-primitivism’s narrative could be inviting for others to consider and connect, could shape into a new, old way of relating to each other and to other animals based not on speciesism and predatory exploitation, but thriving interconnected diversity in essential roles rewilding Earth.

ria montana, forest and wetland rewilder
https://veganprimitivist.wordpress.com/

Endnotes
1. Wild Resistance: A Journal of Primal Anarchy, www.wildresistance.org/.
2. Rozema, Patricia, director. Into the Forest. Performance by Ellen Page, and Evan Rachael Wood, Elevation Pictures, 2016.
3. Hegland, Jean. Into the Forest: Bantam Books, 1997.
4. Montana, Ria. “FUGUE STATE: A Review of ‘Into the Forest.’” Vegan Primitivist, 28 Apr. 2019, veganprimitivist.wordpress.com/2019/04/28/fugue-state-a-review-of-into-the-forest.
5. Black and Green Review. “Re: Submission: Fugue State.” Received by Ria Montana, Re: Submission: Fugue State, 23 Apr. 2019.
6. Hegland, 1997, Pg 160.
7. Mehta, Deepa, director. Fire. Performance by Shabana Azmi , and Nandita Das, Eagle, 1996. The film is loosely based on Ismat Chughtai's 1942 story, Lihaaf (The Quilt).
8. Suparn, Verma. “1997. An Interview with Deepa Mehta (on Her Film Fire).” Redfinn on the Net, Movies, www.rediff.com/entertai/oct/24deep.htm
9. Bird-David, Nurit. Us, Relatives: Scaling and Plural Life in a Forager World. University of California Press, 2017. Pgs. 100-1.
10. Ibid. Pgs 101.
11. “Queer Anarchist NetworkOrganization Profile Published 1988.” Queer Anarchist Network, www.connexions.org/CxLibrary/CX3370.htm.
12. Bearchell, Chris. “Pedophilia: Views from the Other Side.” Child sexuality, Ardent Press, 2008. Pgs 1-4.
13. Walters, Richard. “Save the Children:. Child sexuality. Ardent Press, 2008. Pgs 8-19.
14. Grueter, Cyril C., and Tara S. Stoinski. “Homosexual Behavior in Female Mountain Gorillas: Reflection of Dominance, Affiliation, Reconciliation or Arousal?” Plos One, vol. 11, no. 5, 2016, doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0154185.
15. Hite, Shere. The Hite Report on the Family: Growing up under Patriarchy. Arcadia, 2014.
16. “The Official Website of Shere Hite.” The Official Website of Shere Hite, www.hiteresearchfoundation.org/.
17. Tucker, Kevin. “Hooked on a Feeling: the Loss of Community and the Rise of Addiction.” Black and Green Review, vol. 3, Spring 2016, pp. 53–131. Pg 87.
18. Thompson, Jessica C., et al. “Origins of the Human Predatory Pattern: The Transition to Large-Animal Exploitation by Early Hominins.” Current Anthropology, vol. 60, no. 1, 2019, pp. 1–23., doi:10.1086/701477.
19. Mills, Milton R. The Comparative Anatomy of Eating . 2019, adaptt.org/archive/Mills The Comparative Anatomy of Eating1.pdf.
20. Hart, Donna, and Robert W. Sussman. Man the Hunted Primates, Predators, and Human Evolution. Westview Press, 2009.
21. Ibid.
22. Thompson, 2019.
23. Carrier, David. “The Running-Fighting Dichotomy and the Evolution of Aggression in Hominids.” From Biped to Strider: the Emergence of Modern Human Walking, Running, and Resource Transport, by D. Jeffrey. Meldrum and Charles E. Hilton, Kluwer, 2004.
24. Thompson, 2019.
25. White, Mark, et al. “Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: Interpretative Narratives of Neanderthal Hunting.” Quaternary Science Reviews, vol. 140, 2016, pp. 1–20., doi:10.1016/j.quascirev.2016.03.004.
26. Pobiner, Briana. “Evidence for meat-eating by early humans.” Nature Education Knowledge 4(6), 2013. https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eati...
27. Hrdy, Sarah Blaffer. Mother Nature: Maternal Instincts and How They Shape the Human Species. Ballantine Books, 2000.
28. Mills, 2019.
29. Smith, Felisa A., et al. “Body Size Downgrading of Mammals over the Late Quaternary.” Science, vol. 360, no. 6386, 2018, pp. 310–313., doi:10.1126/science.aao5987.
30. Clutton-Brock, Juliet. “The Walking Larder.” The Walking Larder: Patterns of Domestication, Pastoralism, and Predation, 2014, doi:10.4324/9781315746456.
31. Nibert, David Alan. Animal Oppression and Human Violence: Domesecration, Capitalism, and Global Conflict. Columbia Univ. Press, 2013.
32. Tucker, 2016.
33. Miller, Andrew M., and Edward Doolittle. “RaráMuri Bird Knowledge and Environmental Change in the Sierra Tarahumara, Chihuahua, Mexico.” Journal of Ethnobiology, vol. 37, no. 4, 2017, pp. 663–681., doi:10.2993/0278-0771-37.4.663.
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78. Wild Resistance: A Journal of Primal Anarchy, www.wildresistance.org/.

Comments

Not because they’re being too aggressive, or lewd, but because they’re being too conservative? That’s a twist.

Amazing story, but at what point does a vegan sex libber just give up and quit AnPrim? Even if she’s right, it just doesn’t seem like a good match.

"it’s so very odd to see primitivists not only blindly obeying, but policing them."

You don't know the difference between policing and not bothering to recommend a book?

If they want to be credible they have to at least attempt to keep bizarre personal opinions separate from their editorial roles.

So is Ria going to apply for whistle blower protection? Is Wild Resistance going to respond to the complaint or just ignore it and keep going pumped up on all that testosterone?

Haha, Wild Resistance is an explicitly political project, not some fake neutral journalism.

If they just realized they made a simple mistake condemning the sex scene, that they learned from it or whatever, it would be a nonissue. But when confronted so many people dig in their heels and bury their head in the sand. This isn’t an over-sensitive micro aggression claim. Manly Anprims take liberation to the farthest extreme, until their women want sexual liberation from them. Then they’re left scratching their heads.

It's cool that you think feeling differently than yourself about some weird sex scene is a "mistake" they need to realize. Who fucking cares?

Orly?

Well you know what that makes you, 13:11? A proto-imperialist ooga booga sexy patriarch shitlord, that's what!!

I'd like to state for the record that Ria is beautiful, stunning, brave and doesn't afraid of anything. ESPECIALLY YOUR EVIL BULLSHIT EDITORIAL GATEKEEPING BROUHAHA!

"BRO"HAHA, amirite?!

Editors aren't LIKE da cawps! They ARE da cawps!! Astute analysis komrad!

Hungry male person gonna slaughter meat on deserted island and then have sex with lonely woman regardless of politics OR ELSE DIE!!

This isn’t just an AnPrim issue, it’s a man issue.

HUNGRY MALE PERSON GOIN TO RAMPAGE THROUGH EVERYONES SUITCASE LOOKING FOR DRUGS AND MEAT AND THEN GONNA HAUL THE LADY IN THE SPARE CABIN OF THE 80 FOOT YACHT WHICH VISITED HIS ISLAND AND PROCREATE WITH HER TO KEEP HIS GENES THE DOMINANT SURVIVOR COS HE'S GOT ALL THE ATTRIBUTES (and balls)TO GET AWAY WITH IT, COS THAT'S REALITY IN THE JUNGLE OR ON THE DESERT ISLAND!!!!!

^^^So this is the eternal anarcho-machismo, a universal hunger without moral restraint?

Not, look Ria, predation, prey are part of the physical world to perennial degrees. Anarchy should not be locked into some anti-natalist excess denying logic. My mode of interest is actually the archaic excessive period BEFORE civilization where the Paleolithic landscape likely checked the growth of civilization in check, things like sacred geometry and megalith building. Go back to that with post-civilized lessons and cut out the civilization(Mad Max setting with horticultural greenery and without the structure of war-though there will always be strife). This plays to my idea of an alternative egoist ecology that integrates psycho modern visions of excess with the earth(which doesn't actually need saving).

There will be predation inter animal killing to some degree which is simply what physical reality is. Then the grass will grow.

predation and prey are one of the natural checks against a single species becoming too dominant, what needs to be looked at is how we all are going to satisfy our diverse needs in a way that's self-destructive to all the life sustaining institutions, and i don't even know where to begin with that.

There's an attempt to stifle "masculine energy" by talking shit about hunting and meat eating, but anarcho veganism has a ton of "masculine energy" associated with it, like how they disapprove of just about everything that every single person does in modern civilization.

I'm going to my cabin.

I took the mega citations as a parody of academic primitive journalism.

defense mechanism "You need to back that up."

i was talking about sources in a broader way, to really understand this essay i would have to ask a bunch of questions about what she's referring to in the text, i would have to watch the movie mentioned and read the book, i would have to pick apart the semi-academic language it was written in. I often don't read the things shown and recommended to me on the internet, here i pay attention to the comments more than I do anything else, ill quickly read the articles to avoid falsely equating what is being written about with something else.

Overall the problem i have with ria are the schools of thought she's descended from, i praised the rewilding concept because it's something that we all can study and do with our time, and is a way to get exercise. "Vegan feminism primitivism" is something i can't get on board with, it seems like a lot of it revolves around trying to find the true source of evil and banish it from your heart.

& where to post. I initially submitted it to Wild Resistance knowing they would reject it, just hoping the editors would at least consider it as feedback. After wavering for weeks on if I should post it at all, I decided to not self-silence. Then no place seemed appropriate to post it. I was aware of the issues you're raising, but thought the main points could be understood & discussed.

So are you not feminist?

I can see them ignoring the vegan argument, it’s called hunter-gatherer for a reason. But the sexual liberation part. AnPrim has a woman problem. And a conservative authority problem. JZ seems more open to including various oppressed groups, but honestly most AnPrims don’t.

It's not that I'm not a feminist, it's that I'm not anything really. Trust me...I cringe at vegan more so than feminism. I also dont like the idea of idealizing hunter gatherers, even though I think its badass that there are fewer humans in an HG world

More link cringey_nihilist

i don't have the ability to delete anything on here, not exactly sure what you are referring to.

i hope you are not a mosquito, as i smack those when i have the chance, but may your re-wilding efforts in the crazy summer heat be wonderful

I just have a problem with domesticated humans overexaggerating early human predation to justify continuation of domesticated humans' unwild hyper-predation.

'anti-natalist excess'? Isn't that an oxymoron?

nice chatting with ya

has so many fucking sources, I'm not even going to pretend that I can understand what the meat of the essay is here from reading it by itself.

I think we need to institute a militarized revolutionary nudism, we take off our clothes, go into streets with guns, and when the piggies come around to fuck with us we start shooting at them. Of course, this is an all-martyr movement, but one that's more worth dieing for than anything else I've seen in recent years.

not even good as a premise for a joke

Patreon, oh yes). He would have Ria grouped with 'Doomer Culture' coz it's The White American male who creates these groupings and decides where to allocate people. Doomer Culture could ever be an American invention: name it and commodify it and fuckin' sell it $$$$$$$$$$.

"Dig up Cobain, we're gettin' the band back together, we got a message from Gad"

C'est La Vie

The Boomers v The Doomers hell yeah!

I tried watching "Into the Forest" but it felt like total yuppie post-apo pipedream, so ditched it after 20 mins. But so I understand it evolves into the implosion of the good-valued liberal family model, with the annoying yuppie father dying and the sisters are to get near-incestual lesbo sex, that's telling me to give it a try again, lol

and somewhat implied in the movie. The book explores much deeper with both emotion and action of rewilding.

The book and the movie drag for a long while, but then explode into a rewilder's dream. I can't believe it gets no attention amongst rewilders. That's why I initially wrote the review.

Its sort of like liberal kids took acid and forgot who were their relatives and friends, and got all aroused from watching Baywatch while tripping, then got into a 15 minute orgy which seemed like forever, and then came down of the trip all cuddly-wuddly thi king ---Hey, it would be good to do this highly amoral thing again, but normalize it without the drugs.
No, life doesn't work like that naive liberal teen hipsters!

to AnPrim and anarchy and society, as seen in a few comments here. Some people think it’s a small thing, but when people discriminate based on small things, collectively that makes a publication biased not in a freedom of association preferential way, but an oppressive way. Thanks for speaking up. Maybe it’ll make people think twice, or encourage others to speak up too.

#metoo

Good god there is so much projection here. WR didn't publish a piece that someone wrote. That does not in any way equal oppression. What fucking world is this?

So...

*Hesitates*

Are we all cool w incest now... Or only when it's gay/lez?

Lol, I still dont know who's the mysoginist POS here, they say it in the comments, but I mean, what's going on?

Serious Q

would Ria and others be OK with incest between a brother and sister?

especially since anarcho-primitivists know that civilization indoctrinates with heavy doses of morality controls. Those who learn about primitive humanways should know there are vast ways humans do sex that are scorned by civilization. Adults openly having sex in front of children, children having sex with children, hell I remember hearing about a primitive people still around where mothers teach their virgin sons how to have sex. Don't know if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me. Anprims do have indoctrination reactions, but we just need to be aware of it & keep it in check.

I just broke both my arms

Going to make certain categories of sex immoral, box them all in no exceptions, it does seem odd that an anarchist would nix a book he thinks is otherwise great even when moralistic society sanctions it appropriate for teenagers to read . It’s one thing for an adult to rape or manipulate a child, but society has broadened the definition of incest, trapping in the net some things that obviously don’t belong. Personally I’ve never had a problem with any consenting adults or teens hooking up. Siblings included. I draw the line at consent. Liberation is a pillar of anarchy, sexual liberation included. Too many bigger things to worry about.

It's hyperbolic nonsense like this that makes it hard to take feminism seriously sometimes

fuggin word soup comments come in all flavors of shit

More Muhrican thighs to clear the idpol air pleeeeeease!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo2qQmj0_h4

That is very important how identity groups have their own special brand of morality, there are so many more varieties of moral and ethical standards out there. There's the American gay left factions in California now spreading into Canada. At the Catholic Central American the Christian Eco-terrorists are bigotted homophobic all the way down to Terra del Feugo, yet ironically Antarctica is a gay stronghold. Over in Africa the whole continent is homophobic, why not, women outnumber men 2 to 1, lesbians outnumber nancy boys 4 to 1, that's an imbalance which ceases when one reaches the Middle-East, which is openly homophobic to the degree of death penalty, with just the tiny pocket of gay friendly Israelis inhabiting a tiny nation, but not the orthodox, who are homophobic.
As we travel in to the Mediterranean, the old Latin machismo carries on the homophobia into the Euŕopean interior, through the Slavic and Germanic Regions with a small pocket of gay friendly people clustered around Amsterdam, made numb by free drugs and a stoned police force.
Asia is mostly homophobic except in the sinful sex markets which cater to the tasteß of desperate old affluent Westerners with a taste for young boys and girls, but this is all concealed and hidden from the world in shame.
In China its the firing squad for homosexuality, unless you can pay your way out of it.
Any thoughts on the identity moralities and how they all single out macho-nihilists as the enemy?

Tyhis is shiocking ionsanity of macho- nihjilist sociofuckin pathic trolling. Wtf can whople fiocling world not jkust dioe from ghay totality, thatz fiucklinbg craxy,!

Here there is a strong feminist and anti-nihilist bias...I find the trolls who say this stuff to be pretty creepy...usually they prefer the anon handle cuz they are busy fighting oppression and dont want evil nihilist men to come and rape them.

In relation to this thought, was there any evidence that TK was homophobic, transphobic a little in his main essay, implying it's a mental disorder, but anarchists have said he was homophobic and i would just like to know the truth about this.

To the snowflakes, anything that slightly resembles criticism of gay culture is homophobic. Just dare addressing how the Greco-Roman patriarchy was as gay as it was brutally misogynist, and how some contemporary gay circles are celebrating this same desecration of the women, get ready to be slandered as homophobic or TERF as soon as you turn your back.

Fucking liberal weaklings especially won't address these issues F2F, but rather bad-mouth in yer back when/where it's no longer possible for you to respond to these accusations. JZ's defaming of TK is a golden instance of this. Most of TK's writings were attempting to be realistic, critically steering away from the "noble savage" romanticism still present among anarchos and leftists, with the whole talk on "indigenous anarchism". Many of the mesoamerican tribes were under an authoritarian rule; that's a well-documented fact admitted even by their descendants. There were monarchies and priest classes, even if there was also a level of balance of power among the tribal social structure.

a. fuck the altright language
b. tk was a dick, speaking of sexism. sure he had some absolutely relevant things to say, but he was also a dick. so what's your point?
c. SOME people who are talking about indigeneity as something worth paying attention to are not romanticizing, and other people are. your rhetorical device of "the whole talk on 'indigenous anarchism' " is a cue that you're saying that only romantics talk about what indigenous cultures could teach us.
tl/dr: you'r post is simplistic and rifs alt-right, and i'm cranky and had a bad morning. which doesn't make me wrong, just easily irritated.

Cam down bby have a cheese

Xox

seek 'validation' from K. Tucker? Let it be. He is NEVER going to publish your work regardless of how many citations you include, references etc. You're vegan for one and a well-articulated one at that. Yes, Ian Smith (apparently vegan?) is part of the KT zine but Smith doesn't speak out for non-humans as you do. Even Smith doesn't acknowledge your work which is interesting. For another, you are female and articulate about issues which Tucker refuses to engage with; this may be threatening to him? KT never mentions Layla AbdelRahim either, not that I'm aware of. I used to buy Black and Green Review but stopped after a three issues due to repetition and the lack of critical analysis of so-called primitive peoples: their histories and cultures. Does Tucker reply personally to you with his critique of your submissions and why he won't include your work? I doubt it.

WR can only handle a submissive token vegan, so at least they can say they have one,

What’s the anarchist-primitive view of morality? What is its function, and should it play a role at all?

I’ve always been aware of the crazy moral rules cultures impose on sexuality, siblings included. I’d guess that millions of people are either hiding their sex life or repressing it. It doesn’t seem like humans are naturally life long monogamist or all heterosexual. Just can’t figure out why humans make all these crazy rules and enforce them with such shaming and even brutality.

Yes its even in Añtarctica the purest non-identity continent in the whole world. When will morality stop?

Discussed that we don’t think society should tell us whether or not we should have sex. We’re attracted to each other but choose not to act on it due to repercussions. We’re open about our thoughts and feelings, even both of our spouses know. We talk about it openly at certain gatherings, but not in front of our parents because we are sensitive to the fact that society puts the responsibility on them to enforce the insanity and we don’t want them to feel they’ve failed us. We know we’re not alone.

If you have children pleeeease invite me to birthday party beautiful little inbred darlings with webbed feet hmm!

5:17 You true brave anarchist family u! keeping it autonomous and nuclear anarchist clan way, warrior clan JZ luvs u

The primeval desire which has plagued brothers and sisters through the millenia, and only had a brief awakening during the Roman Empire before christianity banned it!

Hence, gay fascism is the shit, amirite?

I think the anon was showing how X-tian morality had cònquered a mighty Empire, and today, in another mighty USA culture, values have done a full circle, and that this eternal cycle is an innate human quality which oscillates between diverse polarities over the eons, from Roman liberal fascist gay /X-tian puritan homophobe binary to the present US liberal idpol gay /puritan fascist homophobe with X-tian influence waning.
Though the Gomez guy had X-tian all over, well, to the south of US and South America, not so much Africa, mid-strength Europe. But the gist of Gomez was that X-tianity was the main moral authority in the latter 2,000 years, and Eastern religions to a lesser degree.
Yes, indigenous moralities are all over and diverse but ultimately undergoing cyclic eternal re-evolutions, which, if they had had a written language history, would be recorded.
My conclusion as always is if one is living within a Super-Cult, either put up and shut up, or get the hell out of it, or learn to deal internally with your own ressentiments!!
NOW READ SOME BOOKS AND STFU!!

thanks for opening up. People don't come close to even imagining how much we're repressed. Once you let yourself break free from it, it explodes your mind. The underpinnings of my graduate thesis case study on freeing children from authoritarian hegemonies of schooling were a combination of Summerhill's A.S. Neill, Homer Lane and Wilhelm Reich. Here's pieces of wiki on Reich:

1897 –1957 Austrian doctor of medicine and psychoanalyst, author of The Sexual Revolution (1936),

Reich's work on character contributed to the development of Anna Freud's The Ego and the Mechanisms of Defence (1936), and his idea of muscular armour—the expression of the personality in the way the body moves—shaped innovations such as body psychotherapy, Gestalt therapy, bioenergetic analysis and primal therapy. he coined the phrase "the sexual revolution" and During the 1968 student uprisings in Paris and Berlin, students scrawled his name on walls and threw copies of The Mass Psychology of Fascism at police.

argued that neurosis is rooted in sexual and socio-economic conditions, and in particular in a lack of what he called "orgastic potency". He visited patients in their homes to see how they lived, and took to the streets in a mobile clinic, promoting adolescent sexuality and the availability of contraceptives, abortion and divorce, a provocative message in Catholic Austria

His message of sexual liberation disturbed the psychoanalytic community and his political associates, and his vegetotherapy, in which he massaged his disrobed patients to dissolve their "muscular armour", violated the key taboos of psychoanalysis.[13] He moved to New York in 1939, in part to escape the Nazis, and shortly after arriving coined the term "orgone"—from "orgasm" and "organism"—for a biological energy he said he had discovered, which he said others called God. In 1940 he started building orgone accumulators, devices that his patients sat inside to harness the reputed health benefits, leading to newspaper stories about sex boxes that cured cancer.[14]

Following two critical articles about him in The New Republic and Harper's in 1947, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration obtained an injunction against the interstate shipment of orgone accumulators and associated literature, believing they were dealing with a "fraud of the first magnitude".[15] Charged with contempt in 1956 for having violated the injunction, Reich was sentenced to two years imprisonment, and that summer over six tons of his publications were burned by order of the court.[n 2] He died in prison of heart failure just over a year later, days before he was due to apply for parole.

Reich's failure was that he attributed behavioral reactions to unknown external instigators. If he had pursued the investigation of internal semantically derived cognitive processes and influences and critiqued conventional cariculum and moral education there would have been a lot less snake oil claims tarnishing his observations.
Just cannabis and meditation can heal what libraries of Western medicine write psychological and physical cures for, including Reich's commie left mechanistic methodology describes!

I thought I wrote long sentences LeWay. I have to take an hour to digest this. Your brain runs deep.

Its simple Ria really, people have to wash up after themselves ìs all.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sKZTdkvr4qo

but if you are letting yourself into being corrupted by this petty, windbaggy troll called LeWay, you've lost your head already. Don't do LeWank... Just. Don't.

Sorry Ria for being so long winded, I shall try to be more concise during our next verbal intercourse, *sigh*

description of reich's therapy, i've read about him briefly in some other anarchist texts, have faintly wanted to buy his books over the past seven years. I may not be a vegan eco-feminist, but i hold none of my criticisms here against you personally, i'm just intellectually lazy cuz i get tired of reading...

sexual liberation is important, but as we've all discussed here before there's no such thing as "free love", there are all sorts of other stipulations with having sexual relationships that most people now adays don't want to put up with.

celebrity_nihilistm, I enjoyed your earlier response that you deleted. If you choose to be a reed, then I choose to be one of many tiny flying insects hovering in organic flow with others as one, that gets a bit too close to the water's surface and finds itself in the mouth of a juvenile salmon. jj

some say with freedom comes responsibility.

appreciate the conversation

now off to the forest

Ria, You’ve studied children’s liberation? Would love to hear more about that. Do you have anything online?

No genes for sibling sex avoidance have been found. There are cultural pressures for children who share a home to avoid sex no matter their genetic relations. But there are stories of siblings separated at birth meeting later in life who have a strong sexual bond before they discover they are related. Sibling avoidance is a cultural phenomenon morally enforced.

"there are stories of siblings separated at birth meeting later in life who have a strong sexual bond before they discover they are related."
No genes for sibling sex attraction either duh!
Everyone has a strong sexual bond initially with everyone they meet, that they end up being related is coincidental. Duh!

"Everyone has a strong sexual bond initially with everyone they meet"

not true in my case. in fact, very far from it. what is the basis for that assertion?

i read in school a long time ago about a universal taboo on incest, but that's probably bullshit because up until very recently people only had the option of fucking their family members

I don't care, but even as a hardcore nihilist, THIS 13:28 ^^^ is the sign of cultural dysfunction and decay,

It was just a parody of celebrity-nihilist's claim that this was once the normal behavior of everyone, in which case we'd all have birth defects.

ya lost me at: "Patriarchy is evidenced in behaviors based on dogma of exploitive domination over others "

yet another ideologue positioning THEIR oppression as the root of all oppression. jeez... replace "patriarchy" with "racism", shake twice, and viola!

Interesting read Ria, especially the parts after the conflicts that seem to have inspired it.

I dated my first cousin and no one in our family seemed to mind, maybe because we lived in different states. But they probably would have minded if they knew that my sibling and I ‘played doctor’ until we were teenagers. Some morals go unspoken, ya just sense it, and that was a strong silent energy. We don’t ever talk about it, we just pretend nothing happened. It’s one of the most natural ways of interacting I’ve ever had.

To show the degree of repression, what would happen if parents let their kids ‘play doctor’ and authorities found out.

If they resisted, they'd be seeing real doctors and nurses in the emergency ward.

13;30 Are you my older sister? It must be a generational thing. Kids 'playing doctor'. Sometimes I wonder if parents too understood, subconsciously perhaps, what 'playing doctor' was and gave kids their privacy & freedom.

Yes, its sooo sad to see the infantile purity of sensual empathy being straight-jacketed and restricted by the elders of every culture. I wish I was your older sister, but look at it this way, I am in spirit your intimate friend along the wilder road to creative and healing natural expression. Tranquility to you Ria.

From a scorned admiring troll.

People that are into him more often then not are on the right track. I would echo what Le Way said about his commie weaknesses. My radical project is neo neoteny which I think makes more sense for the psychomodern then wildness which is a spent force of a term at this point. Taming and domestication are actually connected to some good things as people like Chris Ryan argue. You want to avoid what leads to purse pooches and prisons, but taming and even primary domestication can be useful for psychosomatic expansive excessive human conditions. There is my concept of neotenous knowledge which lets visions of excess flow through child adolescent behavior and not adult reified ancestry and the power apparatuses that come from it. Unlike the primitivist I'm ok with what existed up to 12000 years ago and even reworking some civilized excesses in a post-civilized way. Archaicism not primitivism.

And also, bother some as it may, let carnal anarchy flow whatever the age or related non related dynamics. As long as the adults are not the power determinant anything should go so long as no hardware/software harm is done. Reich's findings on the Trobrianders should be a clue.

I know, but well, Freud's been through the mill also, like Reich, with a heavily sexualized analysis leading to hysterical conclusions, that particular era, still weighed down by the puritan X-tian neo-Victorian morality of an industrialized monastery, could not help but develop an unrecognizable neurotic methodology in itself. And with the frigid Hitler as the antagonist, this is why history spews out books with titles like Mass Psychology of Fascism. In this era we can have the mass psychology of consumerism, or of democracy, nay, of Capitalism!
In this era the book should be titled Mass Extinction and Starvation of Capitalism, eating is more important than sex, so is breathing, they are basically just bodily functions which should be exempt from any ethical or moral control.
But for his time Reich wrote interesting ideas, but did not apply enough of his own medicine on himself to cure his own lapse into dysfunction.

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