From Anarchist Communist Group
March 3, 2025
In December 2024 some media sites reported on the rescue of a Ukrainian man and his kitten in the mountains in Romania after crossing the border from Ukraine (https://apnews.com/video/vladislav-duda-romania-ukraine-war-and-unrest-…). They failed to mention the reasons why he fled. The Czechoslovak Anarchist Association (ČAS) contacted him for an interview.
An interview with a war resister who, rather than fighting, escaped from Ukraine across Romanian mountains.
At the beginning we would like to wish you good health and we hope that you and your kitten are alright. Could you introduce yourself to our readers?
Thank you very much. My name is Vladislav Duda and I’m 28 years old. I’m a solicitor but I very quickly realised that this field is designed to take bribes, not to protect human rights and liberties.
I’m from a small village next to the city of Bucha in the Kyiv region. For unknown reasons the Ukrainian media are saying in their materials that I’m from Kharkiv but that’s not true. In the years 2022 – 24 I was involved in citizen-based journalism. I have published many materials on human rights violations in the law enforcement and judicial systems of Ukrainian state power. Unfortunately due to the censorship not many materials regarding human rights violations in the military sphere got published.
Your brave escape grabbed the attention of international media but the Czech media stayed silent because it doesn’t fit their war propaganda. Tell us of your crossing of the mountains to Romania.
Originally my plan was to cross Maramures Mountains in May 2024. But on the train to Rakhiv in Zakarpattia I got checked by the border patrol so I decided to jump off the train. Unfortunately the train was still going quite fast and I injured my head. After I received stitches I stayed two months in a hotel in Rakhiv and was treated as an out-patient. On the 28th of July when I was leaving a supermarket I was attacked by an officer from the local police station. He drove me against my will to the Army draft centre in Rakhiv. There I was held all day in a cage and guarded by armed men despite my documents confirming that I’m unfit for Army service because I suffer with ADHD and OCD since my childhood. But after my friends began to raise attention to my treatment I got released. Afterwards, a judge ordered the state prosecutor to initiate criminal proceedings against the officers and people who illegally incarcerated me. But the Military prosecutor stopped these proceedings which he justified with statements from the perpetrators who stated that I was in custody voluntarily. The prosecutor who investigated this case, Andrei Sokolov, officially stated that I didn’t have a status of a journalist. Later, the judge refused to recognise this circumstance as sufficient to suspend the prosecutor from the investigation.
Due to the strict security of the section of the mountains that leads to the border I had to stay in Rakhiv till the beginning of winter. At last, on the 28th of November 2024, when only small number of border patrol stayed in the mountains I could finally begin with the crossing. Despite the bad weather I’ve met two other men in the mountains attempting to cross the border. And on 6th December, after covering more than 40 kilometres on snow-covered mountain paths (from 50cm to 140cm of snow) we crossed the border between Ukraine and Romania. Unfortunately during the descent on the Romanian side the slope is over 45 degrees and we fell in the river. I was pulled out by the Romanian rescue team.
Why did you choose the Carpathian Mountains crossing for your escape to Romania? At least 16 people died there so far. What are the options to get out of Ukraine and escape the mobilisation into the army? What would be your advice to other people trying to escape?
In Ukraine the life of a person, who isn’t an employee of a state apparatus or doesn’t pay those who draft him to the army, is worthless. My position is simple – I’d rather die for my freedom than for the interests of corrupted bureaucrats.
There are not many ways to escape Ukraine. Men usually either swim across the river Tisza or Dniester or they walk for a several weeks through the mountains to Romania. The borders with Hungary and Slovakia are rigorously guarded and Poland, in contrary to the standards of the Geneva Convention on the Rights of Refugees, is handing the men back to the Ukrainian Security Services.
My advice to people who want to follow my footsteps would be – don’t be afraid of the state bureaucrats and leave Ukraine at the first opportunity. It’s better to be seen as a coward in the eyes of the authorities and the people loyal to them, but stay alive, then to be a war hero but lose your life or health while the Russian and Ukrainian authorities profit out of the war.
To escape with a help of a people-smuggler can costs over 100 000 CZK, which is a lot of money that ordinary working person in Ukraine can’t afford, is that right? Did you consider this option?
Escaping through a smuggler in Ukraine costs 1000 – 15 000 USD. But there isn’t any guarantee that the smuggler is an undercover employee of the Secret Services, who only takes your last savings and then force you to the military service, without a proper training, to die in the first battle with the Russian Army.
I know of examples when the Secret Service organised schemes where they were offering an escort to the border for money. Later, after receiving the money, led the men into a trap set up by the Ukrainian Border Patrol. The Border Patrol then handed the men to the Army recruitment centre which, based on falsified medical reports, declared 99% of men fit for military service despite their medical limitations and sent them to war. In light of this information I didn’t consider the option of an escape with smugglers but I worked out my own plan of escape out of Ukraine.
Let’s return to the time before your escape. Why did you decide to run away from Ukraine? Can you outline your reasons why you didn’t want to fight?
Since 2014, since Maidan, I actively speak out against violations of human rights and freedoms by the Ukrainian authorities. In Ukraine everyone who dares to stand up against the authorities is persecuted. The Ukrainian Special Service organise surveillance and persecution of people who don’t agree with the abuse and torture methods of the Secret Service. I’ve been bullied by the Security Service and it’s minions for 10 years. They manufacture criminal cases, destroy public reputation and try to break the morale of those who fight against the criminal regime. I’ve had enough of being the target of the Ukrainian power structures, so I decided to leave the country. I like my country but I despise that criminal regime of power. I hold pacifist and anarchist views and for that it is unacceptable for me to take up arms and take part in any military actions. I don’t want to die for the interests of corrupted officials who will run away from the country with the money stolen from the ordinary people as soon as the war ends.
You are from the area of Bucha which was mentioned a lot in the media in connection with the war crimes of the Russian Army. What happened there? How are people coping with the aftermath?
I’m not following the news but I’ve heard of the large number of killed civilians by soldiers of Ramzan Kadyrov. As far as I know, Russian soldiers weren’t part of the mass shooting of the population. That was done by members of the Chechen Special Forces. But I could be wrong. In Bucha, the majority of people still communicate in Russian but some people insist on using Ukrainian. In Kharkiv 99% of the population speak only Russian and in Kiev all civil servants, including those in the office of the president Vladimir Zelensky, communicate in Russian. Ukrainian is used only at official events, so the wave of hate towards the Russian language that is spread through the media is peculiar. Ukrainian is used only in the western parts because it’s a mother-tongue for the inhabitants of the western regions. In the east and in Kiev most people use Russian.
What is the mood among the population and what is their relationship with the army? Desertion, escapes and draft dodging is on the rise, what are the reasons? Why don’t people want to fight?
In most cases people support the war and mobilisation if it doesn’t personally affect them or the people close to them. The real patriots are already fighting or were killed. Generally, people have a positive attitude towards the army, but they hate the army personnel that forces people to go to war. Majority of the escapees and deserters on both sides of the conflict don’t want to die for the interests of the corrupted authorities. The children of the officials aren’t taking part in the military operations but most of them are formally on the army list or they are taking part just “on paper”. In reality though the borders are open for them and they are spending money stolen from the state budget abroad. The war against corruption in Ukraine is only a show for the international community. In reality most of the corrupt officials stay free and without punishment. People don’t want to fight under these institutions.
Do you think there is a hope for the end of the fighting and peaceful solution? What scenario, do you think, is realistic?
As long as both warring states don’t steal all the money possible from the budget of the taxpayers and don’t gain all the greatest material profit from the war – the fighting won’t end. When both warring sides run out of material resources, the war will end that very day. Don’t forget that every war ends at the negotiation table.
What does your family and friends think about your escape?
I don’t have any friends in Ukraine because of the persecution by the Ukrainian Security forces. They make outcasts out of the people who fight for justice and human rights by spreading slander about them and force other people to stop communicating with them. My mother supports my decision. But I don’t communicate with other members of my family because of their ties to the Security Service. Moreover, my father Andrij Duda, almost got me in prison on the basis of fictional accusation because among his relatives are members of Security Service.
How is your life as an emigrant? Are you afraid of the Ukrainian Secret Service? What are your plans for the future?
Here, where I am currently, I feel safe. I’m not afraid of the Secret Service, I have found myself on the brink of life and death many times, and these situations have strengthened my morale. I’m not hiding my situation, my personal details or how I look. It is possible that the Ukrainian Secret Service might try to kill me or return me back to Ukraine, because I have already received threats from people close to the Security Service. However, this cannot in any way affect my world views and force me to stop believing in them. Plans for the future is best to keep secret, otherwise it’s highly likely that their realisation will be thwarted. But I wouldn’t mind climbing Mount Everest.
What would you say to all the people in Ukraine and Russia if there was a hope that everyone would read it?
I would like for them to realise that it is pointless to lay down their lives or to take someone else’s life at the order of the authorities that profit from the war. There are no winners and losers in the war, all armed conflicts end by negotiation. Millions of lives ruined by the world powers’ lust for dominant political role. These lives will never be appreciated. There is a proverb – A live dog is better than a dead lion.
Thank you for the interview and we wish you all the best.
Thank you for addressing such a sensitive subject and for your support for free opinions without censorship.
Comments
"In Most Cases People Support the War"
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Sat, 03/08/2025 - 16:01
An interesting report. I am sure that his account of the corruption and authoritarianism in Ukraine is accurate, even if it does not disprove the evils of being conquered by an imperialist aggressor.
The author identifies as a "pacifist," meaning that he would oppose any war or armed conflict, even a workers' popular revolution against the Ukrainian and Russian states and capitalist classes--let alone a war of national self-determination.
He does report that "In most cases people support the war and mobilisation.... Generally, people have a positive attitude towards the army...." That is the Ukrainians broad political view. But by now, after three years of a stalemated war and so many dead, many people do not want themselves or family to go into the army. Not very heroic but certainly understandable. That does not mean that they no longer support their country against Russian occupation and exploitation.
I have transcended the…
anonymous (not verified) Sat, 03/08/2025 - 16:27
In reply to "In Most Cases People Support the War" by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
I have transcended the binary Left/Right political narrative and its corrupt brainwashed herd/authoritarian control mechanisms spectacularized with the mythological fallacy of heroic salvation! I am on higher ground.
"Powers keep on lying While…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 10:06
In reply to I have transcended the… by anonymous (not verified)
"Powers keep on lying
While your people keep on dying
World keep on turning
'Cause it won't be too long'
Fuck the minority that…
Wayne Price (not verified) Sat, 03/08/2025 - 19:35
In reply to "In Most Cases People Support the War" by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
Fuck the minority that opposes the majority working peasant people and women people of the Ukraine any means (NATO).
Wayne
Not By Me
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 14:45
In reply to Fuck the minority that… by Wayne Price (not verified)
I try not to insult people who disagree with me. Rather, I try to change their minds, or at least the minds of others who follow the discussion.
you really showed your whole…
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 10:44
In reply to "In Most Cases People Support the War" by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
you really showed your whole ass on that quote selection wayne
"but they hate the army personnel that forces people to go to war."
this is the rest of the line you selected, which is about the brutal authoritarian nature of press ganging and forced conscription, which if you do not strongly condemn, you aren't a fukin anarchist and/or clearly know nothing of the reality of being caught up in an armed conflict
the person's pacifism has nothing to do with any of that btw, but i can smell your desperation to cling to your position. do we really need to discuss how people shouldn't need to flee from a mass organized kidnapping program to force them to go die in a ditch?
"not very heroic" ... wow! as if you're qualified to judge that from the armchair
Actually I wrote, "I am sure…
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 14:53
In reply to you really showed your whole… by lumpy (not verified)
Actually I wrote, "I am sure that his account of the corruption and authoritarianism in Ukraine is accurate." I didn't think it was necessary to point out that I "strongly condemn" corruption and authoritarianism. In fact I am for the revolutionary overthrow of the Ukrainian and Russian capitalist systems and states. Which I have stated repeatedly. Having that as a goal does not mean refusing to support the Ukrainian people against Russian imperialist aggression.
no ... i said the press…
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 19:31
In reply to Actually I wrote, "I am sure… by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
no ... i said the press ganging, which is just a war machine functioning as intended, although not all war machines drag people to the front against their will. i suppose most would, when circumstances are dire, which is a great example of why anarchist opposition to these things should be principled and total
The evil of being conquered…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 11:16
In reply to "In Most Cases People Support the War" by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
The evil of being conquered by an imperialist aggressor like Russia does not disprove the evil of the imperialists of NATO and Israel and their Ukrainian state junior partner either, nor does it disprove the evil of militarism in general, which anarchists used to consider opposition to as "heroic" rather than submission to, as you do. NATO, Israel and the Ukrainian state are not involved in any war of national self-determination in Ukraine and Russia. They are involved in imperialism and colonialism around the world, the suppression of the self-determination of many peoples. You yourself do not support "workers' popular revolution against the Ukrainian and Russian states and capitalist classes", you support submission to NATO/Israeli/Ukrainian militarism and imperialism. You are like Kropotkin in WW1, in contrast to Bakunin in the Franco-Prussian War. Both wanted to save France from invaders, only Kropotkin wanted to do it through the state, whereas Bakunin wanted it done against the state, through civil war by the peasants and workers against both the French and Prussian states. You're still so stuck in Trotskyist politics that you can't even be bothered to understand anarchism and anarchist history, let alone anarchist anti-militarism and anarchist support for national liberation. You don't even support the Palestinian Boycott Divestment Sanctions campaign, so you can't be in support of national liberation wars. You simply support statism when it's done by your preferred imperialist camp.
so is that the definition of…
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 11:23
In reply to The evil of being conquered… by anonymous (not verified)
so is that the definition of "campism" then? or an example of it?
i only heard of this word recently
The wikipedia entry on it is…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 11:53
In reply to so is that the definition of… by lumpy (not verified)
The wikipedia entry on it is decent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campism
Contrary to popular belief there can be and usually are more than just two camps. You could technically be a prole campist against all states and capitalists. The Non-Aligned Movement, a camp separate from both the West and the USSR, used to be more of a thing.
Wayne Price is a campist of the Western variety because he explicitly prioritizes the Ukraine/NATO/Israel camp over the needs of decolonization in the Americas and Palestine (among other places). Just like Kropotkin was a campist because in WW1 he prioritized the needs of the French and Belgian states over the needs of people in Algeria or the Congo.
thanks for that! especially…
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 12:27
In reply to The wikipedia entry on it is… by anonymous (not verified)
thanks for that! especially your examples, which helped it click
Another Lie
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:09
In reply to The wikipedia entry on it is… by anonymous (not verified)
You write, "Wayne Price... explicitly prioritizes the Ukraine/NATO/Israel camp over the needs of decolonization in the Americas and Palestine."
This is simply a bald lie. My support for Palestine against Israel and its U.S. backer, as well as my lifelong support for national liberation movements (as opposed to the many anarchists who reject national self-determination on principle) is an open record. Support for self-determination for Ukraine does not contradict support for self-determination for Palestine or any other country.
You were asked on this very…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:32
In reply to Another Lie by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
You were asked on this very site what you think about the fact that Israel has been arming Ukraine and you said Ukraine has a right to Israeli arms. You've reiterated this more than once on this site. Which means you don't support BDS, which is a much lower intensity threshold than wars of national liberation. You can't even own up to, or don't even understand your own politics, but are too busy falsely accusing others of being liars to even try to figure yourself out.
All Imperialisms are Evil
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:03
In reply to The evil of being conquered… by anonymous (not verified)
You inform us that "The evil of being conquered by an imperialist aggressor like Russia does not disprove the evil of the imperialists of NATO and Israel and their Ukrainian state junior partner either." No kidding! And if this was *nothing but* a war between Western imperialism and Russian imperialism, then I would oppose both sides.
But whatever this is for Western imperialists, I am focused on what it is for the Ukrainian people. Something you have no interest in. For them it is a war for national independence, for their lives, for their culture, for their self-determination. In this war, they have taken arms from the Western imperialists (who have their own imperialist goals) but it is Ukrainians who are fighting and dying and being massacred while fighting for their country's independence from imperialist aggression. Unfortunately, not being anarchist-communists, they are not trying to overturn their state. This is their mistake. But they are right to resist another state's attempt to subjugate them. Anarchists are on the side of the oppressed and not neutral between oppressed and oppressors.
"And if this was *nothing…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:26
In reply to All Imperialisms are Evil by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
"And if this was *nothing but* a war between Western imperialism and Russian imperialism, then I would oppose both sides."
Ok, so you admit that you're a campist then, as well as not being an anarchist, because your opposition to Western imperialism is conditional on whether a certain country (Ukraine) is doing something you like or not, but not conditional when it comes to Russia, and you don't oppose all states if some are doing stuff you think is nice.
By the way, it doesn't at all follow that if a person opposes the Western imperialist camp then they must by definition not care what the situation is for Ukrainians. A person could in fact care about both, even equally, which wouldn't make much sense if they were American and not Ukrainian, but it's still possible. Then again, anarchism and anti-imperialism aren't just about thoughts and prayers for the victimized. That's just liberalism and moralism, not anarchism.
Further, there's more than one example of national oppression and national resistance where the resisters were themselves imperialist colonialist oppressors: the Quebec liberation movement and the Boers in South Africa, for instance. They really were oppressed by the British and the anglo-Canadians, they really resisted, and they really were racist colonizers of other peoples at the same time. Kind of like how the Jewish people really were oppressed by European states, but the Israeli state they sponsor (and that you don't support boycotting since it arms Ukraine) also really oppresses Palestinians.
Two things can be true at the same time, and the fact that they're both true doesn't mean you have to commit to one side. Anarchism isn't simply when people fight. Racists fight too. Anarchism is a methodology as well as an ideology. It's not just when Wayne Price arbitrarily decides that Western campism and militarism are okay now because they're really being violent against other violent people in a way he happens to think is peachy keen. Again, that's just liberalism and has nothing to do with anarchism.
You don't have "self…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:31
In reply to All Imperialisms are Evil by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
You don't have "self-determination" when people are being forced to go to the front for the Nation. Self-determination means if people are saying "no", this has to be respected. Plus there is no such thing as self-determination in a proxy war backed by two opposite blocs, or any sort of "independence" whatsoever, as if a side eventually wins, they'll be having huge gains over what's left of the country, like a Marshall Plan and beyond.
Tho this convo feels somewhat outdated atm, as the new regime in the US is clearly not committed to support Ukraine any longer, and the power dynamics in the Western world are brutally shifting due to Orangeman and Poo-tin.
I wouldn't say this is…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:51
In reply to You don't have "self… by anonymous (not verified)
I wouldn't say this is accurate. The first Trump presidency was the first American regime to arm Ukraine, whereas the Obama and Biden regimes were friendly with Putin at different levels (politically in the former case, economically in the latter). Trump in 2018 said he was going to pull all American troops out of Syria but then backed down on that, leaving a garrison of hundreds, with US forces taking part in the Battle of Baghuz Fawqani. Trump again announced troop withdrawal ahead of the Turkish incursion and again reneged, leaving hundreds of troops there. Part of liberalism is when you pay more attention to what politicians say than what they actually do.
OK you wanna drag me through…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 16:37
In reply to I wouldn't say this is… by anonymous (not verified)
OK you wanna drag me through the mud of boring mainstream political arguments...
Obama's admin was the first to enforce a myriad of sanctions on Russia, as early as the Spring of 2014, and that's also when Russia was kicked out of the G8. The fact Obama was still talking to Poo-tin didn't make him "friendly" with the guy... that's just called "diplomacy" you ignoramus. Taking sides, moving the goalposts, lowering defenses and even defending Poo-tin against Zelensky, tho -like Trump has been doing lately- is what counts as being "friendly".
"Part of liberalism is when you pay more attention to what politicians say than what they actually do"
No, u fool, that's got nothing with do with ideology. That's just being a dupe. Gazillions of MAGAtards have been doing the exact same with Trump. People do this on all sides, even among anarchists.
anons anons... please! this…
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 20:24
In reply to OK you wanna drag me through… by anonymous (not verified)
anons anons... please! this isn't the place for normie arguments about obama's foreign policy, have some dignity!
Hear hear, any and all…
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 08:21
In reply to anons anons... please! this… by lumpy (not verified)
Hear hear, any and all statist foreign policy is taboo, it invokes the dreaded left/right binary narrative, which attracts ignorant seething simpletons into the thread, with their stupid narrow herd morality and mythical heroic self-righteousness!
Who is more foolish? The…
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 07:23
In reply to OK you wanna drag me through… by anonymous (not verified)
Who is more foolish? The fool who says "part of" or the fool who doesn't know what "part of" means? More than one group of people can be gullible and focus on talk over action at the same time, they don't cancel each other out, hope this helps.
Oh, and the reason people are saying Trump is friendly to Putin now, as if it's a new thing, is because he cut off weapons and intel to Ukraine (and maybe also because his people are meeting with the Russians). Which is kinda like what Obama did, except Obama never started arming Ukraine with lethal weapons in the first place, as Trump did and as Zelenskyy just thanked Trump for specifically.
WELL... have fun with that!
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 19:05
In reply to Who is more foolish? The… by anonymous (not verified)
WELL... have fun with that!
"Not very heroic" On that…
Tim Declercq Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:29
In reply to "In Most Cases People Support the War" by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
"Not very heroic"
On that subject, how did it go arguing your case for bombing the people of Donbass directly to those people themselves to their face?
Tim, there is no such thing…
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 08:50
In reply to "Not very heroic" On that… by Tim Declercq
Tim, there is no such thing as the "people of Donbass", there are only proletarians and bourgeois, worldwide (shout out to Pitbull). True internationalists do not acknowledge any divisions other than class divisions. True internationalists do not live in any country, nor do they speak of any country or territory. True internationalists put their fingers in their ears and say "I'm not listening" when anyone talks to them about colonialism or occupation. Please rejoin our class struggle, return to the factory, and dispense with your social-patriotism.
"return to the factory"
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 09:31
In reply to Tim, there is no such thing… by anonymous (not verified)
Get back to work, plebs!
Dog seconding: "WORK! WORK! WORK!"
A peculiar form of trolling…
Tim Declercq Mon, 03/10/2025 - 11:17
In reply to Tim, there is no such thing… by anonymous (not verified)
A peculiar form of trolling for sure. But it fails, anon, Wayne Price is still not off the hook for answering the question.
Don't get me wrong King Tim,…
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 13:28
In reply to A peculiar form of trolling… by Tim Declercq
Don't get me wrong King Tim, I agree that Wayne Price, President of Burgerville, shouldn't be let off the hook. I propose, in the name of equality, that he should have to go to the Donbas at the exact same time that you go to the DRC and that you both livestream yourselves telling people in the respective countries to their faces that they are reactionary for having fought against Ukraine/NATO or Belgium. True proletarian internationalism demands it.
"I agree that Wayne Price {…
Tim Declercq Mon, 03/10/2025 - 17:29
In reply to Don't get me wrong King Tim,… by anonymous (not verified)
"I agree that Wayne Price {...} should have to go to the Donbas {...} telling people in the respective countries to their faces that they are reactionary for having fought against Ukraine/NATO"
What are you rambling on about this time? Who said Wayne has to travel to Donbass, let alone to tell anyone they are reactionary? Obviously my question here to Wayne refers to my earlier challenge to him from a good month ago: https://anarchistnews.org/comment/78915#comment-78915
I see you are making it your real trademark to take something someone said, then add a whole bunch of your own assumptions and inventions, and then pretend as if you're responding to something that other person said instead of just to your own assumptions and inventions. Exactly like how that discussion about Lenin went as well, and exactly like in that discussion about Lenin I will now just leave you to fight the windmills of your own creation. But of course not without leaving you with a good relevant quote for you to enjoy :)
"All we can do is to laugh as we gaze at this spectacle, for one cannot help laughing when one sees a man fighting his own imagination, smashing his own inventions, while at the same time heatedly asserting that he is smashing his opponent."
So, "go tell it to their…
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 19:35
In reply to "I agree that Wayne Price {… by Tim Declercq
So, "go tell it to their face" (from your linked comment) meant go online and tell them? With all due respect, that's kind of weird, your highness. You are becoming too detached from the people, not to mention your memory of your own statements. It's like you've become two people. Perhaps it was too soon for me to criticize you after your loss of Rwanda, Burundi and the DRC. Hoping you come around eventually. The proletariat needs your charity and guidance.
What? No complaining about…
Tim Declercq Mon, 03/10/2025 - 19:50
In reply to So, "go tell it to their… by anonymous (not verified)
What? No complaining about the quote I gave? No outraged whining that an anarchist is directly quoting Stalin smacking down on anarchists? Sigh...why do I even take all that effort to deliberately pick that specific quote and deliberately leave out the source for you to find out for yourself...
And yes, of course "directly to their face" is meant figuratively for "directly to them personally", as is bloody well obvious from what I said.
Down the Rabbit Hole?
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Wed, 03/12/2025 - 18:15
In reply to "I agree that Wayne Price {… by Tim Declercq
Tim is still raising this, so I will say something. (Otherwise I was bowing out of this list, letting those who disagree with me have the last word.) Tim has raised this sort of argument with me before. He wants me to examine some particular situation, do research, interview people, read documents, etc., and then discuss it with him. (For example, is he writing about the Ukrainian government's bombing of Donbas while it has been occupied by the Russians? Could be justified. Or before, when there was some real grassroots movement for autonomy? Not justified I would assume. All this would have to be examined.) Of course, no one else on this list will know what we're discussing (arguing about), since no one else will have done this research.
No thanks. I will not go down these rabbit holes with you Tim. I would rather discuss broader issues, such as how anarchists should relate when their (capitalist-state ruled but non-imperialist) country has been invaded by an imperialist state.
Should we not support the workers and other people of our country if the state takes arms from imperialist enemies of the invader? If not, does that mean that I was wrong to support the Vietnamese people against the U.S. imperialists in the 60s because their Stalinist leaders took arms from the imperialist Soviet Union? Does that mean that we should not support the Palestinians against Israel and the U.S. because their jihadist, M-L, and nationalist leaders took arms from the regional sub-imperialist Iran?
And I see no point in arguing with those of my fellow class-struggle anarchist-socialists who think that class conflict is the *only* conflict of importance--not gender, not race, not sexual orientation, and certainly not exploitation of oppressed nations. All these interact with and overlap with class exploitation.
"He wants me to examine some…
Tim Declercq Wed, 03/12/2025 - 19:09
In reply to Down the Rabbit Hole? by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
"He wants me to examine some particular situation, do research, interview people, read documents, etc., and then discuss it with him."
No Wayne, I don't want to discuss anything with you. I have already tried that and it was a big exercise in futility. What I did was give you the contact information of local trade union activists like Sergey Kutz, who got shot in both of his legs, and Donetsk anarchists like the comrades of Nikolai, who was killed during Ukrainian shelling of the city, so you could go tell them directly and personally how much you want them shot and bombed. So they could tell you themselves where to shove your warmongering, in the hope that maybe, just maybe, at least *that* might knock some sense into you.
"For example, is he writing about the Ukrainian government's bombing of Donbas while it has been occupied by the Russians? Could be justified. Or before, when there was some real grassroots movement for autonomy? Not justified I would assume. All this would have to be examined."
Are you telling me you don't even know when Sergey got shot or Nikolai got bombed stone death? For someone who likes to talk about anarchism and class struggle you sure don't seem to have the slightest acquaintance with the anarchists and trade unionists in the very region you so want to bomb to smithereens.
"I would rather discuss broader issues, such as how anarchists should relate when their (capitalist-state ruled but non-imperialist) country has been invaded by an imperialist state."
But you patently refuse to discuss that with the very anarchists and trade unionists who are actually to be subjected to your warmongering, I wonder why...
Except a nation is a cross…
anonymous (not verified) Thu, 03/13/2025 - 05:16
In reply to Down the Rabbit Hole? by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
Except a nation is a cross-class concept, same the 'people' or 'peoples'. You want anarchists to go fight for bosses and rulers because they are 'your own'.
You are not understanding class anarchism much I guess, it has nothing to do with class reductionism.
The nation is not a cross…
anonymous (not verified) Fri, 03/14/2025 - 07:08
In reply to Except a nation is a cross… by anonymous (not verified)
The nation is not a cross-class concept because not all nations have classes, at least no classes that weren't imposed on them by an outside empire. Even Engels recognized this in his Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State.
There were also persons like James Connolly who were themselves working class and explicitly excluded the bourgeoisie from their concept of the nation (in this case Ireland) or what the nation should be.
Or persons like Bakunin who called for class war and civil war and also said "Every nation, like every individual, is of necessity what it is, and has an unquestionable right to be itself.”
Wayne Price on the other hand is explicitly in favor of the Ukrainian state and it being armed by colonial states like Israel, so he is definitely in favor of class collaboration, not to mention colonialism.
Ok, nation states then. Most…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/16/2025 - 12:32
In reply to The nation is not a cross… by anonymous (not verified)
Ok, nation states then. Most nations are in nation states. Especially if we talk about Ukraine.
Bakunin & Connolly
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Mon, 03/17/2025 - 17:50
In reply to The nation is not a cross… by anonymous (not verified)
Actually my views are exactly the same as those of Bakunin and Connolly (who died leading a movement in alliance with bourgeois nationalists). For supporting the popular movement for self-determination, but against any support to national states.
Since almost all national liberation movements are either led by states or by those who want to set up states (leaving out Rojava), to refuse to support a national movement because it has (or is for) a national state (such as the Palestinians) is in effect to oppose all national self-determination movements. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Since you're a true American…
anonymous (not verified) Fri, 03/14/2025 - 07:18
In reply to Down the Rabbit Hole? by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
Since you're a true American, Price, the imperialist Soviet Union arming Vietnam didn't give you any excuse to go easy on your own imperialist state, same as imperialist Russia invading *extra-innocent* Ukraine doesn't give you an excuse to go easy on your own imperialist state facilitating genocide against *extra-guilty* Palestine. And as it's happened, you've made it clear more than once on this god-forsaken site that you don't support Boycott Divestment and Sanctions on Israel because the Ukrainian people have the "right", via their state, to weapons from capitalist and colonialist Israeli arms industries. Which means you are by definition pro-capitalism and pro-colonialism, but even more specifically, you are in favor of your own imperialist bloc and consider Palestinians to be sub-human in comparison to Ukrainians, which, judging by polls is what most Ukrainians think too, even more so than most Europeans.
Europeans think that…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/16/2025 - 12:35
In reply to Since you're a true American… by anonymous (not verified)
Europeans think that Palestinians are subhumans?!
What a sweeping generalisation.
Nonsense
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Mon, 03/17/2025 - 17:56
In reply to Since you're a true American… by anonymous (not verified)
Because I think that the Ukrainians, in their desperate situation, have the right to get arms from Israel, as well as the Western imperialists, therefore you claim (repeatedly on this site) that I am "pro-capitalism and procolonialism...in favor of your own imperialist bloc and consider Palestinians to be sub-human...." My record of supporting Palestinians and other oppressed nations, you merely ignore.
This is nutty and you are a nut, as well as a slanderer and liar.
How can you claim to support…
ShandaBot (not verified) Mon, 03/17/2025 - 18:32
In reply to Nonsense by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
How can you claim to support the people of Palestine out of one side of your mouth while you suckle the Zionist teet with the other? There is a term for people like you, Wayne. In German it's called Kapo. Here's more about you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo
Shanda!
Are Palestinians in a less…
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/17/2025 - 20:19
In reply to Nonsense by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
Are Palestinians in a less desperate situation than Ukrainians, less desperate to such an extent that it justifies breaking the boycott of the Israeli arms industry? Do you also cross the picket lines of one union because supporting another is more important? Do you support the righteous Quebecois and the Boers in their glorious struggle for their own little league colonialism against their Anglo big boy oppressors?
The Desperation of the Palestinians
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Tue, 03/18/2025 - 14:58
In reply to Are Palestinians in a less… by anonymous (not verified)
Palestinians are in such a desperate situation that they have taken arms from Iran, a regional sub-imperialism ruled by a religious-authoritarian capitalist state. I condemn Iran's ayatollahs and support the rebellions against them. Yet I do not criticize the Palestinian resistance for taking arms from them. For that matter, I condemn the politics and tactics of Hamas and the other authoritarian leaderships of the Palestinian resistance (jihadists, M-Lers, nationalists, etc.). But that does not stop me from being in solidarity with the Palestinian people and their resistance to Israel and the U.S.
Hezbollah is a front for the…
anonymous (not verified) Tue, 03/18/2025 - 17:07
In reply to The Desperation of the Palestinians by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
Hezbollah is a front for the Iranian regime for whom Palestine is a war theater against Israel and the US. "Palestinians" are not "desperate"; they are being trained, brainwashed and armed by Islamist mafias just like JIhadists in Lybia, Syrian and Afghanistan, only that here the mafia is centered around the Iranian regime and filthy-rich Arab oil principalities like Qatar and Dubai. (for Hamas). It is all fascistic and/or capitalist interests from behind,
You don't live in Iran, do…
anonymous (not verified) Tue, 03/18/2025 - 18:36
In reply to The Desperation of the Palestinians by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
You don't live in Iran, do you Price? You live in America, which is arming Israel. So how does more than one state being bad at the same time justify the Ukrainian state buying arms from America and Israel? And how does Iran being a state and Palestinians being armed by it justify you taking the position that BDS doesn't matter in the case of the Ukrainian state, that the Ukrainian state has a "right" to Israeli and American arms (strange for an anarchist to think a state has a right to the capitalist weapons of another state, but...)?
Do you think the Palestinians are in such a desperate situation that they have the "right" to all the Russian capitalist weaponry possible, meaning more profits for those companies to invest in Russia's war on Ukraine? Do the rights of one nationality trump those of another for you? If Ukrainians, via their state, have a right to a prospering Israeli arms industry it seems to follow that Palestinians have a right to a prospering Russian arms industry, no matter how many Ukrainians have to die or how much territory Ukraine loses to Russia as a result. Not an "anarchist" logic by any means, but it seems you don't care much about anarchism in comparison to how deeply you care about the well-being of capitalist arms companies and states.
Yes I live in Iran. I'm here…
anonymous (not verified) Tue, 03/18/2025 - 20:20
In reply to You don't live in Iran, do… by anonymous (not verified)
Yes I live in Iran. I'm here with your mother right now. She's a freak. I didn't read the rest of your seething comment because your mom needs my attention but if you are impolite I will rip off you head and shit down your neck for the self-determination of the Ukrainian people's right to help the state of Israel and USofA genocide the people of Palestine!
*Signed, Wayne
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Tue, 03/18/2025 - 20:20
In reply to Yes I live in Iran. I'm here… by anonymous (not verified)
*Signed,
Wayne
And Trump?
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:23
BTW, how do you opponents of the Ukrainians defending themselves feel about Trump's turn away from NATO and the Ukrainian government?
BTW, how do you liberal NATO…
anonymous (not verified) Sun, 03/09/2025 - 15:27
In reply to And Trump? by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
BTW, how do you liberal NATO fans feel about Zelenskyy acknowledging that Trump armed Ukraine first?
NATO fans?
Wayne Price@ (not verified) Tue, 03/18/2025 - 15:08
In reply to BTW, how do you liberal NATO… by anonymous (not verified)
You mean that U.S. imperialism sent arms to Ukraine before Putin's invasion? But this was after Putin had seized Crimea in 2014, infiltrated soldiers into Donbas, and had invaded Georgia. It was reasonable for the Ukrainians to feel threatened by imperialist Russia and get arms in case of Russian invasion--which happened! (This was done by Ukraine's capitalist state, but would have been true if Ukraine had a system of free communes.)
I don't support the Ukrainian state and its capitalist class looking for defense from Western imperialism--I want a popular revolution, spreading through Eastern Europe and Russia. But without that, it was understandable that even the Ukrainian workers and oppressed, the majority of the population, supported their state's getting aid from Western imperialism.
Nice try there, changing the…
anonymous (not verified) Tue, 03/18/2025 - 15:59
In reply to NATO fans? by Wayne Price@ (not verified)
Nice try there, changing the subject (the one you brought up) from Trump's latest regime to "U.S. imperialism" in general. In case you forgot, Obama was president until 2017 but did not arm Ukraine with lethal equipment. Trump, in his first presidency, was the first to do so, which is what Zelenskyy thanked him for recently. Now, the second Trump regime is arming Ukraine again after a brief pause (unclear if any planned shipments were really paused) and some contrition from Zelenskyy. What the Ukrainian population thinks about all this doesn't change what the states involve have actually done. Our analysis should be based at least as much on social and material conditions as on feelings. A bit hasty to have said Trump is turning away from NATO and Ukraine. He didn't do so in his first presidency. He may still do so but his very brief pause and bullying on Ukraine aren't absolute indicators of this. He's certainly not any kind of isolationist, as the present attacks on Palestine and Yemen are showing.
Lumpy, I wrote a lengthy…
anonymous (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 08:41
Lumpy,
I wrote a lengthy conversation to the conversation we were having about manipulation but when I clicked submit it seems the moderators had decided to delete the entire thread for some manipulative reason. Apparently they are the masters of persuasion persuading anarchists to have conversations that they can delete.
Sincerely,
Opposer of persuasion
... i don't care
lumpy (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 09:56
In reply to Lumpy, I wrote a lengthy… by anonymous (not verified)
... i don't care
nice try, sweetheart
lumpy (not verified) Mon, 03/10/2025 - 10:15
In reply to ... i don't care by lumpy (not verified)
nice try, sweetheart
We know Ol' Chompsk is…
anonymous (not verified) Tue, 03/11/2025 - 07:06
We know Ol' Chompsk is actually at level Anarchism 101, Even he knew and said this :- "If you want to control a people, create an imaginary enemy that appears more dangerous than you, then present yourself as their savior.”
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