Greetings from the heart of the North American Corona Virus pandemic-to-be! There is no toilet paper on store shelves (not even that big box ware-house store whose own brand shares a name with the city which has seen the most Covid19 deaths… (wait, is there a conspiracy here?). The pasta and canned goods are almost all gone, and don’t even think about trying to find hand sanitizer or bottled water.

People are panicking at the threat of a major new disease, partly due to media doing what media does, and partly due to valid fears about a relatively unknown virus spreading widely, and presumably evolving as it does so.

This could be a moment to reflect on the way that technology and globalization almost invite massive outbreaks of disease, but I’ll leave that pondering to a different time. What I am curious about is how do, or would you respond to a pandemic as an anarchist?

There are many examples of anarchist responses to disaster (Common Grounds comes to mind), but there are probably many other forms this could take. Do you stockpile food and hunker down? Create networks of affinity and support? It is pretty clear the state is unable/unwilling to provide the actual support people will need, and while not wanting to encourage an activist mindset, I am curious what we do in these moments, and why.

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Maybe proper name is the "Ok boomer virus" seeing who it hits hardest.

Spread the sneeze. Sneeze on hands and slide up and down every railings and surfaces you can find. Sneeze on fans. Sneeze on food. Sneeze on newspapers. Sneeze on library books. etc

Sneeze on the immunocompromised. Sneeze on currency. Sneeze on touchscreens. Sneeze on movie theater spectators. Sneeze on queues and lines.

There was a time in the early '00'w where shitbag sex columnist Dan Savage went to volunteer for then-presidential candidate and homophobe Gary Bauer, while coming down with the flu, and purportedly licked all the pens and door knobs to try to infect him. Fuck Savage, but I support that action.

here is one text on the subject - "An Anarchist Response to Ebola" by Carwil Bjork-James and Chuck Munson

"Anarchists are part of the global conversation on what’s broken in the world, but when things really fall apart—like with the current Ebola outbreak—is the state the only answer? How might a stateless society respond to a challenge like this one? This article provides an anarchist response to these questions, while highlighting issues that require those of us with anarchist politics to carefully think through our position." (read the rest at t@l link above)

there's this slate interview ( where the zoologist is quoted "Well, we don’t do that on purpose, but we just it’s our everyday way of going about business on the planet that seems to be driving this. And the three really big things that drive these are places on the planet where there’s lots of wildlife diversity because they carry viruses, some of which can become pandemic in us and places where human population is really dense and growing. And because our contact with wildlife is higher says more chance for the viruses to get into us. "

so it's C I V I L I Z A T I O N.

leave em virus where they are. and they will leave us where we are. :)

"And because our contact with wildlife is higher says more chance for the viruses to get into us."

No that's the opposite, dillweed. People living regularly in more natural environments, for being exposed constantly to the microbes from a multitude of non-human life, develop a far tougher immune system. People in sterilized (sub)urban are those more likely to be weak to viral infections. Not only due to their sterile artificial environments they live in... but also because of their fucking screens and doorknobs being so demanding for touching with their hands. The attack vectors are all over the place, while the civilized are so careless and unprotected...

Whew! Crap scientists abound these days in the US.

It goes without saying, if someone near to me got ill I'd try to help them.

They may not want my help and tell me to "fuck off!"

Sometimes, death ain't so bad a prospect.

Dehydration's a bad trip.

while not wanting to encourage an activist mindset -- since anarchism is passivity, resignation, inertia, and sitting around watching your waistline implacably expand.

The opposite, or outside of traditional leftist activism is not what your describe here. Life is much more diversely lived than your old, caged, thoughts. Western mindset fail, that wants everything about people reduced to a few behaviors that can be assigned a count, an abstract measure. Maybe this is why your vision has failed to connect with the larger public (as activism needs a visible audience easily managed by policing and mediation)? And then when people try to raise very real issues of those dead models, it's them just getting fat. Yep. Arrogance never learns.

Some of us are interested in forming new relationships. Maybe it's good that looks illegible to minds stuck in outdated modes. What's a life worth living? It won't have a one-dimensional label.

Some of us are desperate to get a date -- wait, hey, I mean -- form new relationships. That's it, better now.

"while not wanting to encourage an activist mindset -- since anarchism is passivity, resignation, inertia, and sitting around watching your waistline implacably expand."

are you still mad about how a lot of people now are realizing the shortcomings of the activist mindset? There are just some things that people can't just jump on board with and change. The surgeon general is telling people to distance themselves socially out of fear of contracting the corona virus. Well, that was something I was already doing involuntarily, thank you surgeon bout we just rob some corporation that makes hand sanitizers, distribute it, and write a communique about how we are the anarchist lone wolfs who are combating the spread of coron avirus. Or, we'll just get on plane to some third world country and do it there, that will work out really really well.

so is there anything written on the relation between the spanish flu (1918-1920) and the vibrancy of anarchy in that period?

Afaik the early-20th anarchist communes were a lot into hygiene and educating people on hygiene practices, so it may have helped against the devastation by the flu.

There are a few amazing herbal antivirals out there that might be useful in an immunological supportive way & there are absolutely herbal treatments to help combat the symptoms.

Up vitamin A. Eat some grass fed beef liver. D3, to copper and zinc ratio help as well (bioavailable in animal form). Sunlight, movement, breathing exercises/stress management where possible.

Good questions!

"Disaster struck at the end of September. Rio was hit by the ghastly Spanish flu epidemic which claimed the lives of thousands of workers by the end of October. The police rounded up workers active on the Committee to Combat the Epidemic as the capitalist class and the authorities (including the health authorities) fled to the safety of the towns in the mountains. By November, the epidemic was easing off, but starvation continued to claim hundreds of lives, especially in the more remote suburbs."


Apparently there was a Committee to Combat the Epidemic that was maybe a worker-run thing? This is the only mention of it in this article.

Sneeze molotovs. Sneeze into bottle, put lid on. Non inflammable and legal.

and nothing happens you can perceive. Laaaaaame Insurrecto Anarchy 2020.

It's them panarchists who believe we can live under the same really big tent along with different varieties of brutish authoritarian bigots and other brainwashed assholes. Coz let's create a new but very old world, ya know?

being a human-avoiding “prepper/survivalists”, this latest human-caused catastrophe isn’t likely to have a significant impact on my day-day life unless it gets all post-apocalyptic-novel-virus crazy. then who knows? since i am already a high-risk geezer, dying sooner than later ain’t no big loss to the world (whose is) except to my bitchpack. and a few distant humans who’d be sad but would soon get over it as they try to keep their unhealthy, citified selves going. i’d like to be one of the last survivors of whatever goes down (sigh, not likely in my lifetime, but one must have hope i’m told) just to see how the game changes when the playing field gets more open if not leveled.

for now, in between starting seeds for this year's food and medicine, collecting sap for maple syrup, and keeping my eyes peeled for the wild food popping out of the snow, i check internet news and forums. hilarity abounds.

competing ideologies hitting up against natural barriers of resistance. system managers tweaking this or that mandate to try and curb the spread of economic, political, social infrastructure damage. politicos pointing fingers as usual but with footstomping temper tantrums thrown in for added emphasis of their ridiculousness. charismatic talking heads selling contradicting scientific-religious advice. pundits and prophets profiting on misery again. still. always. and toilet paper shortages, that one gets me fucking-a rolling. just not on the floor, not enough room in my old trailer.

my misanthropic self agrees with some of the earlier commentators here...may all viruses grow and spread amongst the humans who had a gazillion chances and blew it every time. good riddance to all. my compassionate self (so very tiny but still too strong perhaps) wishes only the asswipes to suffer. my contemplative and curious bits look forward to how actual shit hitting the fan – even if this pandemic isn’t the “big one” - affects the idpols and academics, the boring theoreticians and philosophers. maybe they will eat their words when they get hungry enough. when trigger alerts come from a gun barrel held by quarantine enforcers rather than scary internet words.

it was a! that told me about the show, The Wire, and it flashes back to me today. a poor young kid in the mean streets selling his bossman’s white powder, “pandemic, get your pandemic over here!”

A bitchpack is literally a pack of bitches. I don't get what it's got to do with "dogs", u jelly dick sauce.

what's in the news, people are freaking out and buying everything in the grocery stores, and it's all they talk about in the news. It's just like how all the news talked about was the impeachment trial a few weeks ago.

I look at the number of people infected and killed and I think "that's it?", yeah it has spread very fast. It's like people have forgotten that a higher ratio of our species is supposed to get killed by disease anyway for the sake of every other species.

It's just another day. I've noticed that how part of the state works is the overshoot of response to dangers so there isn't any chance of it becoming serious, what a miserable and stressful way to live.

What's annoying is that thousands of children die from hunger and preventable diseases in underdeveloped nations exploited ruthlessly by capitalist corporations, and its ignored or excused on Hobbesian grounds. Dumb panicing hysterical self-indulgent brutes call themselves humane!

Very much this. The tobacco industry causes about 5 million deaths a year. That's a Holocaust yearly. No one's spraying any War on Drugs on those fields though.

Diesel fumes cause asthma, and the deaths of about 10,000 yearly.

Perspective gets lost in hysteria.

Rising, some scientists think cuz of global warming.

Steven pinker tries to argue weve gotten more peaceful of a species but it's really just a change in method

With a Dasein self-awareness, its near impossible to become hysterically moronic over fake as in exaggerated news

So you're telling us that it's only since the day Heideggy coined the concept of Dasein that some people have reached this intellectual state of not caring about those public bogeymen?

To be more nuanced, until Heideggy came around, everyone thought Kafka's "The Trial" was a detective novel ;)

The media are masters at exploiting attentional bias. People are such simple beings a lot of the time. I'm saddened the virus spread onto @news

Is ANews a reasonable place to make both robust critiques and ribald mockery of the antics of the system and its reactions to what they deem is an acute global crisis? Is it a good place to share practical information (non-operational, not sketchy) as the situation unfolds. Or unravels?

would it be good to know how anarchists are doing in italy? in the past I have read numerous well considered, interesting, and useful reports from there - and elsewhere - during a state’s supercharged actions. when the national guard or other military force is activated in a us city, is there anything worthwhile to say about that here?

It is a fundamental question about a general usefulness of the internet and Anews in particular.

as anywhere else online to tell you the truth.

There are many aspects of modern society that are ultra-superfluous, or seemingly so. I tried to give all of you instructions on how to avoid a techno-bureacratic society thousands of years ago, but not enough people listened! Goddammit!

The quarantine facility in Grand Mound Washington appears to have a 15+ ft. tall fence with razor wire angled so as to keep those within detained. Mainstream local television initially reported on it as if it were not worthy of note that this is presumably where sick folks are to be kept. They only mentioned in passing that its a former juvenile detention center. Apparently they forgot to dismantle the fence!

Is @news & the rest of the interwebs useful? Sure. The internets can be useful. I'm stumped on why you mentioned anarchists in some random country. I don't know if this site has reports on Italy. I would guess this site has info on many different countries, but for Italy specifically, you'd have to search @news yourself .

The issue is that coronavirus sounds more like good news in a general sense. The US government has shown some unsurprising carelessness or mismanagement of the threat response, unlike in these crazy totalitarian states like China and Italy, but how should be the agency of anarchists in such a situation of State leniency? Helping in slowing down the spread of the virus?

I know your comment is not about the virus itself (which is still pretty insignificant in the threat it's posing, even if it did spread amazingly well globally) but rather the State's response to it, which in the case of hyper-managerial biopowers like Italy and China is rather crazy. Like I heard about some guy in northern Italy who got his graduation ceremony for his degree over the internet due to the quarantine. How can they respond, other than using the State's despotic response against itself?

As for US anarchists I got zero trust they'll come up with any tangible response besides the equivalent of fixing potholes, or protesting the State's inability to be a consistent biopower. The US appears to be a clusterfuck of bigots and cowards and its "anarchist" scenes gave little benefit of the doubt. Still a country of impostors and wannabe aristocrats.

Ok, there's prisoner support and maybe publishing/podcasts.... but what else?

Home brewed hand sanitizer and cool black masks and stuff. Maybe some informative leaflets with accurate information.

probably available in all those stores where they panicked and took all the toilet paper. That kills bacterial extremly effectively, along with ovens...

rest for more advanced stages, so many conflicting accounts on how to reliably boot your immune system, blah blah blah, not freaking out about diseases, because stress compromises your immune system...

Plain ol'soap for 20 seconds kills coronavirus 100%.
Hiedeggy will take care of any stragglers!

How many people would you like COVID-19 to kill before you no longer consider it an "insignificant threat"?

Just curious.

With all the safety measures being put in place by governments at the risk of destroying their own 'conomies, that'd be a fucking miracle if the death toll goes from a few thousands globally to one billion... I dunno how Corona can achieve that in a somewhat short period of time.

Maybe it might just be the frequency of this pandemics. They are calling them 100year events after the Spanish flu of 1919. But if these viruses mutate into similar strains every year or two, there is no actually recovery, but a slow downward slope of travel, production and trade.
The condition of the deteriorating environment and overpopulation increasing the frequency of trans-mammalian pathologies and multiple vectors for virus transfer may just be the way Nature ends up regulating mono-species domination. Only a Dnmasein self-awareness could allow for a purer humanoiď to arise in the future

not related but is anarchy101 gonna be down for maintenance indefinitely?

I got a cold about the time coronavirus went viral so I think I had it, my friend too but I called it the black oil. It sucks because nothing's fun anymore when you're sick. We were never tested even though we go to an infectious disease clinic (OPIS outpatient infusion services) every day for 6 weeks of intravenous antibiotics after a foot sugery (bacterial infection). You'd have to have full blown flu symptoms for them to take any interest they mainly just provide services unless the CDC compels them to start testing. So I feel better now but still cough when I exert myself. I mainly just skate around while he's hooked up to the juice through a PICC line. Did you know that VA clinics have there own private security onsite? I'm not sure if they're feds or just rent-a-cops. But hey keep your hands clean and don't touch your face ok?

Presumably, you're talking about veteran affairs clinics, and not Virginia clinics. If so, then yes, Veteran Affairs has its own po-po force and they were po-po

Oh when I was sitting in the lobby I saw a guy with an auto pistol on his hip and an olive drab shirt and my impression was this is a soldier not a peace officer. Might have been the Veteran's Affairs guy.

is pretty fun when you have a cold...but yeah being up and about...not something you want to do when your body is fighting a virus. Of course being sick is way better when you have a little company.

Foucault used to talk about biopower but now I'm experiencing it firsthand. Even though the healthcare system is a patchwork of privatized solutions there's still a sense of running cattle through a chute with the classification and institutionalization of illness. The new Descovy commercial is disturbing mainly because they play it so often during some shows. Here it is for you non tv watchers:
Descovy for PrEP
It's like you have to get tooled up with big pharma before you can have any hope of surviving a leap into a gay scene, the horror.

and eat garlic and make yourself ginger+honey tea. And if death comes in like crazy make sure this becomes known to the other residents of this site, as this is one of those impersonal mediums that don't care whether ppl live or die, they just stop commenting for (???) reason.

is an interdimensional bardo of Himalayan white where extensions of self coalesce and interact. Like the train station in the Matrix people come and go but nobody stays. You can't get infected with virus or bacteria but you can catch a meme so watch out.

Today was our last infusion so no more daily trips to the clinic and they removed the PICC line. I did notice they set up mandatory screening for CoronaVirus and only patients are allowed in the clinics unless you need assistance. If they were screening while we had our colds we probably would have been tested and possibly quarantined. Also the nurses are wearing masks now so the protocol has definitely changed.

i live very rurally, and my response is of course very different than if i lived in a city (which i did for half my life). around here, anarchist affinities will always be limited, but rural folks - especially poor ones - tend to know how to survive in their environment. mutual aid is, by and large, a simple fact of life when you live out in the boonies. sure, interpersonal bullshit happens everywhere. but i'd most definitely rather be here during a real collapse, than in any city.

for most people, i would think, political affinities (and all group identities - which most ideological affinities become over time) will fade to the background when forced to directly deal with their own survival (and that of their loved ones) rather than the typical mental masturbation of how to create some perfect (anarchist) "society" where the continuation of mass society, consent and using the right words are the paramount concerns.

if this virus does in fact expand to become the kind of threat that many of us have been hoping for for decades, then i guess we'll see how folks behave when the chips are down. i think it makes sense to have loose networks of individual affinities where that is possible. if someone's political persuasion is a serious factor in how one chooses those affinities in hardcore survival situations, then good luck with that. i personally couldn't give a shit if someone 3 miles down the road voted for trump. my only concern would be: how much will they be willing to help me out, and vice versa, when the shit goes down. should we both survive, and they attempt to recreate a political body or situation, they will at that point be my enemy. that would be the case for a bernie voter just as well as any self-proclaimed anarchist.

here's to a more fundamental collapse than a few thousand stock market points!!!!

"anarchist affinities will always be limited, but rural folks - especially poor ones - tend to know how to survive in their environment. mutual aid is, by and large, a simple fact of life when you live out in the boonies. "

So what are those anarchist affinities you're referring to, beyond this? Being LGBTQ+?

"Anarchism" has got waaayyy over its head lately. For many it appears to be just a rebranding on libertarian, yet not even anti-electoral socialism. If your countryside communities are based on intense, brainless submission to patriarchs and/or religious authorities, that'd be the only thing holding back from being anarchic.

1. i never mentioned communities, you might have noticed.
2. anything or anyone "based on intense, brainless submission to patriarchs and/or religious authorities" is of exactly zero interest to me. but i appreciate the deep, critical thought you put into your broad-brush generalization of rural folks.
3. not sure why you mention gender identity as anything associated with anarchist affinity. but to be clear, part of my original point was that things like "lgbtq" and all other group identities will likely fade to meaninglessness as actual individuals face the reality of survival without "the system", or death. i hope it comes to that, but i have serious doubts that it will, in my lifetime (which ain't all that much longer).

Most of the comments here seem to be off-topic and/or not answering your question, Ingrate, which I believe to have been "What I am curious about is how do, or would you respond to a pandemic as an anarchist?"

With that said, I believe the Anarchist response to a pandemic should be that of a community response. Anarchists (even in America despite the comment above) have shown great ability to mobilize, to take direct action and to help. This is how we need to respond. BY HELPING. Helping without the Fear of God, Helping without the Demand of the State. There are poor people everywhere, and though some of you may wish for the virus to wipe you/us out, those terms don't work for all.

Help your community, and the people within, do things such as (of course, if you can, I understand capital inability) giving homeless people supplies (tp, sanitizer, etc.) educate people on the FACTS. Similar to the ideas of the Prison Program Black Cross and/or Food not Bombs, I feel an appropriate response would be something like this, in regards to the Pandemic. "Hand Sanitizer and Protein Shakes, Not Matt Gaetz in his Underground Bunker".

Obtain Supplies (steal, purchase, whatever). Distribute these supplies to the under privileged. I know for a fact that no one in my area could go without a paycheck for 2 weeks and any paper Trump signs, will not help them. These people still need to eat, they still need to wash their hands, they still need to live and have a right to do so - and life under the (Containment) State, will not help this.

The comments above about child hunger, cigs, etc. are what made me respond to this - because I believe that these are the most important issues, and more severe and immediate than COVID19 - but nevertheless, this is a reality. Virus', Superbugs, and the state telling you to stay home, may be the new norm - we need to respond appropriately, vigilantly. The State has failed by not taking proactive and preventive measures along with putting their pocket books first. Let us be smarter than them.

Perhaps I "give a fuck" but I would hope that my fellow Anarcho's also give a fuck.

I seldom give a fuck about randos needing help outside, when that happens, and when this ain't no bullshit. But people own their own lives, they're supposed to be standing up for themselves, just as I do with myself.

With all the information already being made freely available by health authorities like the WHO and some governments and NGOs, as well as plenty of non-government health info sites on the net, there's no reason they shouldn't know how to protect themselves if they want to, other than if they're illiterate (then if you're in a neighborhood where's there's huge rates of illiteracy well that'd make sense to give them some informed care).

The Black Plague was the last time a major pandemic decimated an important part of a continent's population. It also took decades, or a few years at its peak moment, to do that. And that was in a social context of poor or near-absent hygiene measures, and at the same time a lot of direct interpersonal exposure, making medieval towns as perfect settings for the spread of the plague. Monks were able to save their asses due to their strict hygienic discipline that included two baths a day. In today's world, it's very likely that Muslim cultures will dodge a pandemic like this one for the same reasons.

But stupid self-proud Americans? Not quite.

10:09 this is gonna blow your mind. Poor people know about soap and the concept of washing their hands. I don't see how pelting poor people with hand sanitizer while being as self-righteous and patronizing as possible is supposed to do.

Your comment makes me laugh. Did you read my comment? most people in my area couldn't survive without two weeks of pay. Does this not indicate to you that I and us are living in a low wage, high cost, area? Not all, but areas like these are plagued with illitracy and schools that perhaps aside from providing free lunch, do nothing but disservices to children ( a little off topic though).

The term Randos, made me laugh - are you a middle schooler? I do not wish to insult you, and like you, "stand up for myself". There are people who cannot. There are people who are sleeping in bus stations, missing a leg, right now. Standing up for yourself means standing up for your believes - and I believe that we should help, we should assist, we should (see subtitle of this website).

Your Muslim Culture Theory is interesting - misleading, but interesting. I cannot be for certain, but I do not believe the Quran says to wash with Purrel, but water (and of course Oils or Sand, cus you know, science?)

I always take immense pride in making people laugh, as I am a clown.

Equally if you wanna save the world, go for it. Open up street clinic or at least free anti-pandemic kiosks where basic hygienic goods are distribuyed on voluntary donations. Start a crowdfund page for the project, announce it on any social media including here. And before you get money, start stealing some stuff (breather masks, alcohol sanitizers, etc).

But please quit patronizing or moralizing people in a comment section. You know how it achieves no good.

Its a symptom of the larger narcissistic culture. Time to man up and just get over it all as if nothing is happening worse than the flu. FUCK ALL THE PANIC MERCHANTS AND HYPOCONDRIACS!

Maybe this pandemic can finally topple the pandemic of work, the biggest most widespread pandemic ever known to man?

have you seen the economic hysteria that has occurred as a result of corona virus?

I mean, i highly doubt that will lead to an end of Work, but maybe with a little help from global warming catastrophe...not sure whether to be happy or scared about this, how it turns out for you will largely depend on who lives in your area and how much the state will want to intervene.

I have full confidence in the majority of fair common sense folk to pool their resources if things become dire. The 25% decrease in productivity and jet travel is already having a beneficial reduction in pollution and the opportunity for those caught in the work cycle to spend some quality time at work pondering their existence and possibly entering the wonderful realm of Dasein, and become enlightened anarch individuals.

of peaceful dissolution and natural harm reduction, the lifting of burdens from humanity's collective chest...because frankly i don't think there's even the remote possibility of people changing things for the better through some sort of pro-active political change. The political change comes through erasing the existent...that's the biggest thing I've learned so far from all the anarchist books i've read.

Not to say that i want people to religiously "do nothing", but modern bureaucratic insanity has reached such insanity that normally to think there's anything you can do to step in and change it will probably make it even worse or be altruistic, sacrificing your own peace of mind and sanity to placate others. Choosing when to be altruistic is the biggest challenge, because you don't want anyone sucking your energy parasitically.

and of course, there will be bad things, very many bad things whether the status quo continues or crashes down through catastrophe. How people react to those bad things will determine how anarchic the world becomes...

The capitalists are the ones who are most negatively affected by this, productivity suffers, profits are not maintained, the markets shrink, and all of their peripheral businesses and affiliates including the unfortunate wage slave are panicking and the media likewise.
Yeah, proactivity never did a thing, its up to natural laws and limits to begin influencing the actions of humanity.
The media do not panic about the millions of babies and children dying from starvation and preventable diseases every year in non-productive regions they mine and exploit for its resources and military profits and tactical location.

This is wishful thinking. There hasn't been 25% decrease in productivity, nor air travel. The emissions in China have possibly decreased by 25%, but that's about it. It's temporary and emissions are gonna skyrocket in China when China gets into "recovery mode" after this flu subsides. China was looking to grow their economy this year and they'll likely going to try to stimulate their economy by starting a shitload of carbon emissions intensive construction projects to help grow their economy.

because that's a quarter of all economic production, things around where i live seem to be the same, all the cars are on the rode, however the freakout over the decrease in economic production is very real.

You live in a society which prides itself on appearance, but beneath the mask, it is fomenting and sìckening, the octogenarian masters and ancient authoritarian power brokers are fever stricken and their bowels are churning. They have lost their vitality and arrogance, they know that the reaper is nearby, behind the curtain, breathing down their goosebump blightened neck.

Well yeah, there is a decline in production and a decline in demand for certain industries. Just not a 25% decline. I saw Gordon Gekko and the Wall Street bros have been freaking out.

Anon 16:37 here, in the long run, after the 2nd wave and possible 3rd, which occurs if containment procedures are implemented, it just slows down infection over 1 year rather than 7 billion being infected over a 2 month peak period , which damages the workforce more because treatment is overwhelmed by numbers. Also, these pandemics will become more common, not once every 50years but instead once every 3years. The cumulative reduction in production will be 25% over the next decade. Other natural disasters are about to be unleashed.

Most of the most harmful viruses exist in lifeforms about to be disturbed by the encroachment of growing human populations.
The coronaviŕus was from a rare species of mammal eaten by a human. There is a theory that changes in global temperatures are creating vectors for viruses that have been dormant for millions of years.

lol dude what are you talking about? This Dasein realm of enlightenment of David Icke conspiracy theories you're living in is a bit out there for me. You foresee production will decrease by 25% in 10 years instead of your prior estimate that that already happened? Since when were bats considered a rare species of mammals? Pandemics already happen fairly often.

Not talking about bats, but an estimated one million pangolins believed to have been smuggled from 2000 to 2013 into China making them the world's most trafficked animals. Pangolins whilst crowded together in cages awaiting smuggling in close contact with people, like smuggled in their coat pockets in crowded buses through Kyber Pass shitting in the pockets or coughing and sneezing from the dust and dried shit in the cages and then placed in crowded human rooms. Dasein folk do not mìx with animal prison guards, they loath them and the human prison buses they travel on in the remote aspiring regions heading for the restaurants of Maoprole street stalls.

No. If it came from pangolins do explain why the virus didn't pop up in their country of origin? Scientist don't have much evidence indicating it came from pangolins.

What do you think Dasein is supposed to mean? I can't help but to think you were engaging in a poor reading of Being and Time.

The virus didn't pop up in the country of origin because it wasn't crammed into cages with other pandolins concentrating unhygenic effluent in an unnatural indoor environment. How do you think human diseases multiply, not 1 person hanging around in a forest or desert but crammed together 10 people sleeping in one room ?
10 pangolins in cages in crowded bus shitting in jacket poo dust breathed in on corrugated road travelling towards the Khyber Pass!

For excellent punch line at the end of the comment. *canned applauds*

from Aotearoa Workers Solidarity Movement (March 9, 2020)

COVID-19 – known as the coronavirus – emerged in the Chinese city of Wuhan. It’s flu-like symptoms enabled the quick spread of the virus within the city. It also allowed the spread of the disease beyond Wuhan despite the attempts of the Chinese government to curb it by resorting to drastic measures of arresting and detaining suspected carriers. (read the rest at above link)

if nothing else, a major collapse of economic-political systems would make it abundantly clear how few are prepared to survive without "the system". what good would that do? many deaths, for sure. but just maybe it could cause a few more people - maybe even a few more "anarchists" - to think outside the systemic box.

"systems would make it abundantly clear how few are prepared to survive without "the system".

yeah, but even thinking like that has its problems, because it ignores the fact that capitalism is based upon a stringent web of human dependency. In other words, businesses and the political systems that support them will not just disappear. If anything actually catastrophic (not the fucking corona virus) happened, it would be more about which pieces of the system survives, the more thoughtless and egotistical would trip over themselves trying to devise some new system of control in a rapid and laughable manner, some of them succeeding, kinda like a terrifying it's always sunny in Philadelphia episode, but the grey area is the more interesting part.

A scenario that's interesting to me is what things would have been like if the corona virus was around before our current advanced medical system, are there any parallels that ya'll can think of? I'm sure there were at least a few, in all the accounts i've heard it doesn't sound nearly as deadly as the bubonic plague or small pox.

"it ignores the fact that capitalism is based upon a stringent web of human dependency."

on the contrary, my thinking makes that very assumption. the political-economic system(s) of mass society have many such dependencies, which would be severely impacted by a real catastrophe. of course your point about what/who survives, and how they choose to move forward, is a good one, that is where the anti-authoritarian individuals that do survive can potentially have some impact. at least for themselves.

regardless, i have to say that i feel rather excited by the mere possibility that shit could fall apart in more real ways than ever before in my lifetime. i doubt i would survive long term, but hey, i'll enjoy what i can while i can.


I work in an ER y'all are crazy to feel gleeful about this. Its gonna disproportionately kill vulnerable populations, elders, folks out on the reservations, prisoners of the state, homeless folks, immuno-compromised people, those with medical co-morbitities (poor working class folks), the rich will horde resources, pay for concierge medical services and mostly be fine. This will kill many of your prol comrades. Its dark. Its unfair and only the most nihilistic antisocial primmie could be happy about it or think its cool. The state will use it as an excuse for martial law if it gets bad.

Tldr: system collapse- not actually fun, you probably won't last 6 months

I think its cool, the adolescents and children are spared and they can look after themselves.

i'm just laughing about how 'merica is panicking about this, yet i'm well aware that the panic is the method for keeping the disease under control.

I work with drug resistant tuberculosis programs around the world and this is merely a taste of what your random person in Chennai, Jakarta, or Lima goes through every day. Not the end of days. Just a reflection of the lack of human compassion and care in the world, even in the elite metropol, as it careens toward self obliteration.

Wow several countries now shutting down entirely for a month!? India!!!?!??!?
Wtf State authorities are out of their minds or they really found out anticiv was a brilliant idea so let's finally trigger that?

Damn they're going insane in the brain over a few hundred deaths.

Shall I remind everyone that this will only benefit the rest of animal life?

it's the way that states are showing you they still love you, and as i said before, panic is actually a methodology for keeping things under control.

For fuck sakes, when i think over 50,000 people in the US die from auto accidents a year, nothing has changed, this is just part of the news cycle. I'm wary of whether if i get the coronavirus i want to be quarantined though, sounds terrible.

It's easy to hate humanity, and I often do, but maybe that's too simple. Coronavirus could potentially affect, read: kill, people that I care about, but I am not sure there is much I or the anarchists can do about it. I think someone was trying to make the point in the opioid crisis TOTW a while back that there's mainstream organizations that have more resources and capacity to respond to said crisis so maybe anarchists should focus on what anarchists may actually be better at? Maybe it's ok if we aren't trying to put out all the fires of the world all the time. And what for? Does it get us closer to our anarchist goals? Things go back to normal and our demonstration of mutual aid doesn't carry over into the day to day. It comes to mind that a lot of people that don't identify as any kind of radical or anarchist do disaster relief, are motivated to act spontaneously to help people around them that they don't know personally. Are they just humanist sheeple or is there something there for us to connect with?

Is the PANdemic an opportunity to build bridges across differing value systems and foment the PAN-secession, or is it too morally unhygienic? :p

Also, does anyone remember this?

But yeah, what could we do at this stage other than think about and prepare to be ready for other things like this in the future? As someone above commented, chucking purel at people seems condescending and pointless. Wait...maybe Attack with disinfectant is the thing to do! it is pretty nasty stuff...

If tomorrow I tell the press that automobile accidents kill 50,000 a year in the US alone... or that the tobacco industry takes 5 million lives a year.. Nobody panics. Because, it's all part of "The Plan".. even if the plan is HORRIFYING! But if I say that ONE LITTLE VIRUS fna kill upwards of 3000+ boomie booms...

err'body fna lose thurr minds g lol

The Pangolin Liberation Army released their ancient 100 million year old germ warfare virus. The Lord Dasein Entity freed them from the cages of the Peasant Mao Eat Anything That Moves Connoisseurs before they reached the Gates of No Return near the Khyber Pass.

The difference is car accidents are just that....accidents. 50,000 fatalities is a predictable mathematical average that isn't likely to increase dramatically. Lung cancer from smoking is a personal choice, and not contagious.

Unlike the above, coronavirus is a virus that is spreading like wildfire. New infection cases double every 4 to 5 days. There is no known vaccine or cure at this point, and it has shown no signs of slowing down. The only silver lining is that the death rate from the virus is relatively low in proportion to infection rate. However, if the infection rate continues to climb, it means the death rate in sheer numbers could still potentially be in the millions.

Its ßorta funny, but if your comment was in the context of discussing malaria or malnutrition or other diseases related to poverty in underdeveloped countries which kill millions of children every year it would not be making headlines or causing widespread hysteria and panic amongst affluent populations. It always takes humanists by surprise and they panic when these plagues and pandemics occur in their own perfect backyards. Hahahaaa, so funny and predictable.

16:50 Not sure how to take your comment, or what the point you are trying to make is. Malaria and malnutrition do make headlines. But because these things don't spread all around the world in a matter of weeks with no known way of stopping them, there is no mass hysteria. If your point is, we don't pay enough attention to malaria and malnutrition because they affect mostly poor people in third world countries, I would agree.

The importance of the virus above car accidents and smoking deaths seems kinda odd to me. In a way they are both forms of death and trauma that are imposed, cars are only necessary because of capitalism and the way that society has structured itself, and smoking is an escape from lives people would rather not be living.

Not elevate, its just that, all the hysteria over a mild virus. Bubonic plague, fine, go crazy and panic. These petty sheepish snivelling weaklings are a disgrace to any tough independent anarchist.
Real anarchists welcome coronavirus into their homes.

going around telling people to wash their hands and i'll just go ahead not worrying about problems until i actually have to face them. You can be worried about getting a more serious flu. I already worry about my hygiene a little bit, and I also wish i didn't have to drive into town to get the things i need because I would frankly rather not risk suffering paralysis in a society that's based entirely on people benefiting themselves.

and i don't get what the deal is with this back handed comment about how tough i am, i haven't been making fun of people who are legitimately worried about the conronavirus. The post asked me for my opinion and i said it, do you need me to support your battle to stop the spread of the disease? Do you think I should be sad about every single person who i don't know dies? I really hope the internet collapses before people start having problems finding a supply of fresh water, there's going to be so many more events similar to this one within the next couple hundred years. The next president might actually decide to go war with someone.

Sorryyyyyyyyyy, its just that I am so underwhelmed by the majority of humanity's exaggerations and complaining with their existence, even when they have a roof over their heads and 3 square meals a day, that I have to vent occasionally.

are entitled and complain in a manipulative matter at times, but that doesn't mean that they never have difficult problems. I've heard about how awful it is to live in africa my whole life but thinking about how miserable someone else might be doesn't benefit me very much. I try as hard as i can to be a good little non-complainer on a daily basis, and i usually do it pretty well, and then every once in a while i great really bent out of shape and have more trouble controlling my habits. nobody smoked or drove a car in communist countries like the Soviet Union? In Cuba? In China? In Vietnam? Nobody smoked in indigenous societies?

Smoking and driving are not the result of capitalism. This is just silliness and shallow thinking.

driving is 100% a result of capitalism, have you ever tried to make a car by yourself? No, you didn't, because factories make cars, and then once a technological standard is implemented by capitalists, good luck to everyone else trying to escape this.

and as far as smoking is concerned, you're right, people were smoking long before a system was devised referred to as "capitalism" was devised. However, the cancerous and addictive smoking was certainly made possible by tobacco industries. Giving people no other alternative to industry and state justifiable makes them well prepared to die.

hated their jobs etc etc.... funny how this hatred quickly turns into wanting to continue their shit life, shit job etc etc as they rush to stock up and continue their daily misery??? Just goes to prove that one should judge people by their actions/behaviour not their words.

that things can get worse (with no pot of gold at the end of a shit rainbow).
perhaps you haven't been around long enough to know that?

So I wanna thank and send my praises to the anticiv green anarchos behind this amazing feat! :-p

This appears to the best way to collapse civilization as:

- that made masses of idiots buy incredible amounts of useless toilet paper
- will help voiding many spooks and other bullshit (like rent, property, ID pols, etc) from our lives
- is already successful at crashing the 'conomy. Reduces consumption and production
- will give enough time to those in-the-know to prepare and be able to adapf to whatever's coming
- schools closing, Hollywood postponing tbeir shit spectacle products
- minimized death toll. Coronavirus ain't as deadly as some other viruses, and many have recovered from it
- unexpected goodies, tragedies and LIFE!

But sure there are a few cons, like....

- insane travel restrictions
- more shit streaming productions made by hack frauds
- much less getting cozy with others, for those who do (I don't, so not my problem)
- likely impending socio-sanitary Prison State (i.e. very bad)
- WW3 becoming a serious possibility again, in the middle of the shitstorm.

I fell it's mostly goin to be alright, and maybe this virus scare will just pass over time.

corona ruined my travel prospects.
but plane tickets are cheap af now if anyone wants to be a wildcard vector.

*Pssst whispers* I wanna get a one-way plane ticket to the Khyber Pass and join the Pagolin Liberation Army.

Dude what are you talking about? Flights are fucking insanely expensive right now. I could be wrong about other countries, but flying into Canada is totally fucked up right now. All my friends who were planning to fly up here are shit out of luck. It fucking sucks.

Who the fuck would wanna fly into Canada atm, other than people really needing it? It's gradually sinking in the Police State game, the necessary stuff is mostly out of stock everywhere already. I'd rather be somewhere south where fruits and veggies are available year-long.

… you know how big that country is, right? sweeping statements much?


You heard it here first. Keep it real @news

This seems as good a time as any to bring this up but there is no evidence these viruses exist folks(no isolation or purification of these things has ever been done to fit a Koch postulated standard which should be the bare minimum criteria). Corona, like all 'viruses', probably has it's origins in a toxicological stress context. The Pangolin theory may well be right but not in a species jumping way(there is no evidence of a pathogenic viral self-propagating species) but a toxic stressed animal context. Now, are there toxic loaded vesicles that affect and spread disease in a viral manner, absolutely, but this is not the same thing as saying there is an evolutionary pathogenic viral disease agent.

The alternative hypothesis I present for corona and all the other so-called viruses is that this is all communicative toxic perturbed stress. Yes biological stress can be communicated and contagionized. Looking at things this way however would require an honest environmental toxic stress control approach which would be bad for the business of leviathan. Scaled up state based resource production brings all kinds of toxic stress viral disease into existence.

This all requires a post-germ theory understanding of biological stress as a communicative phenomena.

I have read some interesting essays concerning epigenetics, organic chemistry/diet and physiological cell function under stress and immunity compromised environments and there definitely exists this possibility of spontaneous generation, however the vector is still an existing virus dna /rna organism as a vehicle of infection. But this field or inner space is largely unknown and maybe in about 10 years will be better understood.
There may be a time when it is discovered that ideologies create organic diseases, that there is an internal force projecting toxins as defence immunity reactions which become overloaded due to stress. Scientists are on the cusp of having empirical ďata proving stress causes cancer.

If you understand and elaborate on his ideas of biological stress and then these viral contagious events make sense without the contrived pathological self-propagating theories of germ theory. I would also throw in the ideas of Ray Peat and Jamie Cunliffe and his critique of the immune system model for his morphostasis model.

I would agree that there is a vector of contact communicative disease(I don't like the term infection) but I see these as vesicles(endogenous not exogenous in origin) and vesicles alone. Think of them as occupying the same niche in animal and plant organisms as phages do in single cell organisms. I think they basically operate as transcriptional regulators of sorts and viral disorders are basically overloads of transcriptions due to some type of perturbed process either acute or long term. Something like Ebola would be the former and 'hiv' disease would be the latter. In both instances you are talking about some kind of underlying toxic stress factor that sets the vesicles into over regulating motion. With 'hiv' it's oxidation and with ebola it's probably tied to cyanide and mercury as connected to toxic mining pits in places like central africa.

TMV(the first virus) and HIV(the most studied) have clear toxic stress connections. The former was discovered by a chemical engineer for fucks sake(Adolf Mayer). The plants he was looking at were clearly toxic stressed plants that were going through a viral event. This is also the more parsimonious way to look at this all as the consensus counter point leads to these silly contrived theories of cellular hijacking or viruses as the prime beginning of simple life(look up Margulis and symbiogenesis you fucking retards).

There is value in some things Pasteur discovered and he definitely played a role in a proper understanding of contact communicative disease but the structure of his theory as disease resulting from self-propagating pathological living species needs to be jettisoned.

I'll have to look more into these transcriptional regulators, I can definitely picture this phase of the process. I actually hesitated before using the word "infection" in my comment, I have an equal opinion also that it is a misleading term and detours from perceiving the entire communicative disease structure as vesicle/endogenous based. Right on that there is someone aware of the erroneously founded Western science disease model on this anarchist site, most important.

There was a guy named softrat who showed up and made these arguments on transcriptional over-regulation. Unfortunately the site's been memory holed over time. I can give you a link where someone re pasted his post on TMV and what it actually is. You can also read the thread where I post by another name.

Again it's all just viral toxic induced stress at the end of the day. No self-propagating evolutionary agent needed.

"it's all just viral toxic induced stress at the end of the day. No self-propagating evolutionary agent needed."

and what difference does that make to anyone other than Science adherents? you are saying it is still viral, we see that it is propogated pretty damn easily, ... what is your point?

Propagation is usually tied to a self-drive of sorts from simple sentience to complex consciousness. There is no evidence of such a thing in regards to viral disease outbreaks. Viral disease outbreaks are products of dynamic stress signaling and messaging not self-propagating systems of life. If this is accepted it could have world changing consequences due to the fact that you are controlling against biological stress and toxicological factors that drive it in a communicative disease direction. It would mean asking questions of production and its role in generating toxins for instance. If you blame some non existent virus then you let those processes go scott free.

so you're also saying that the corona virus is a hoax too now?!

However I do agree that there are certainly toxic relationships that need to be repaired, but there is no "communicative disease", there's only bad communication through distance and hierarchies. Referring to every communication breakdown as some infirmity of the mind is a symptom of the general shitty communication pandemic.

I perceive of no deliberate fabrication when it comes to germ theory immunology and virology, just theoretical errors in judgement. The corona disease is real enough, I simply argue it’s a vesicle spread toxin. Communicative disease via communicative stress is precisely what drives contagion.

"This seems as good a time as any to bring this up but there is no evidence these viruses exist folks(no isolation or purification of these things has ever been done to fit a Koch postulated standard which should be the bare minimum criteria)"

doesn't really seem to be getting your point across, and i have noticed that you tend to relate everything to the jargon of someone who works at the CDC to the more complicated health problems that plague just about every human. For example, i've been trying to get help with my psychological issues for a long time, and all they do is robotically repeat things and tell me to take medications that screw with my gastro-intestinal problems, which have ironically gotten worse over the corona virus scare. I guess i personally get annoyed with you doing that because i take society's spookology and disinformation very seriously. One the ethical/moral tenants that i try to adhere to in response to this is just to never say anything at all when i'm feeling very uncertain about what to say, and i feel like other people have double standards in this regard which in turn pissing me off. Like, for example, when people are insulting people on facebook for rallying behind biden and trump and then lecturing them about how diseases spread and people need to get vaccinated. If you want people to get vaccinated: don't talk about it, vaccinate them. Tell me where i can get flu shots since the COVID-19 seems to be very similar. Bernie sanders would change very little about the moedical system anyway at most. I hope that nobody tells me to eat something as I'm dying of starvation.

sounds like you need some time away from the internet, television, and/or radio.

a little better right now, a lot of mounting problems with anxiety that are completely separate from the fucking pandemic. Are not the easy and stupid pleasures the most immediate and rewarding? Sometimes i just really fucking hate it that i have to bear everything "myself", and yeah sure i should be able to rise above it but the web of self-medication i have to implement always seems to be getting more complex by the day, call stupid or whatever but it's true. The anxieties have been mounting for the past couple of months and i just can't control it, it's making me feel worse every single day, this idea i have to just keep figuring out how to keep myself in check

Hi, You've probably been told to take a deep breath thousands of times,and it works for the few seconds of taking the deep breath, and breathout, lingering for a minute, and then its gone and you're back to the anxiety.
Try panting, no seriously, in the privacy of your home with a witness incase of blackout, pant like a dog does, also Inuit singing does it, it regulates ovygen and carbon dioxide levels.
Sometimes you reach an ideal rate of breathing but it takes 10 minutes to find it, but once you do, you then have to learn how to pant invisibly so that when you are in a crowded subway or something people don't mistake you for a crazy person.
Try it, and then stop medication gradually, not all at once, or you could have withdrawl symptoms.
There's also bacterial gut food like yoghurt which heals the beneficial bacteria in your stomach that the medications interfere with. Don't abruptely stop meds, but first try the panting and beneficial bacteria foods. A zen or Dasein outlook helps also ;)

i've been freaking out about over the past couple weeks, she swallowed a deer femur, and i still have to watch her until the staples get removed from her stomach. I just really hate it how my life sometimes feels mind-bogglingly complicated, i was thinking i had colon cancer recently and the thought of it was actually relieving to me at times, it seems like when i start freaking out there are times when it becomes difficult to stop doing it. Sometimes i feel like the sympathetic nervous system gets stuck.

i don't even really take any medication, but my digestive problems have forced me to call everything about my habits into question since i don't really know what's going on, and my doctor actually told me to take very unhealthy over the counter medications to fix what he thought i was the problem and they just seemed to have made it worse.

or take it a more effective step further and go for running and strong probiotics every day.

"Bernie Sanders would change very little about the medical system anyway at most."

And this is based on what?

"Bernie Sanders would change very little about the medical system anyway at most."

And this is based on what?"

Uhm let's see, the fact that the U.S. political system is resistant to change anyway? That all that biden had to do to get a bunch of people on his side was say that he was the "safest" candidate? I'm down with more humanitarian activities being done by the ultra-fascist pro-business U.S. government but i actually don't think it can be changed very much, which means it's inevitably going to keep getting worse. I've thought about leaving the country in response to this realization but then there are all sorts of practical considerations with that instead.

What does really bother me is people using the COVID-19 outbreak to start hurling guilt laden insults at each other, as certain bernie fans have been doing, not you anon...

Biden didn't do shit. The DNC worked behind the scenes to instruct all other candidates to withdraw and fall in line behind Biden. The DNC has also rigged the primary voting, purging people from the voter rolls, closing down polling stations, deliberately confusing the process so as to discourage young people from voting. The MSM have been relentlessly attacking Bernie since day one. The whole establishment has pulled out all the stops to stop Bernie, just like they did in 2016. Sanders represents an existential threat to the establishment. If Sanders became POTUS, he would change things, especially to the health care system of the US.. They definitely do not want that. If the political system were as resistant to change as you say, they wouldn't be so worried about Sanders.

and i was even going to vote for him in the primaries but just from reading the headlines of news articles i can tell they already turned against him...the US gov is in desperate need of sanity and reality check, but i'm convinced that the only way this will come about is through rapid destabilization. They still haven't even fixed the problem that the majority of country can be disgusted with a candidate and they will still be voted into office, i've been ranting about how we have too big of a military for a long time but that problem always seems to get lost in the mess.

It shows theoretical incongruity but nothing intentionally fabricated. Religious believers do this all the time. It's not a hoax, it's just them sincerely making shit up to fill gaps. Humans will do all kinds of things to maintain an anchored belief structure.

SirEinzige, this academia-babble horseshit you wrote is funny. You think Koch's limited 4 postulates should serve as the bare minimum criteria for the existence of viruses? Is this because it's the only way it makes the nonsensical horseshit you wrote seem less idiotic? Your whole premise depends on this late-19th century explanation that even Koch himself knew it was limited and flawed. Man, ideology can be a strange beast sometimes. The coronavirus was isolated like a month ago

You should watch this the next time you're thinking about cooking up some horseshit. All of it or step up your charlatanry game. Perhaps watch how other charlatans can cook up a bunch horseshit world salad, full of academia-babble, and still make it seem like they have a minimal understanding of the crap falling out of their mouths. You do not get a participation trophy

Koch was a fellow germ theorist so he had a cause to abandon it for expediency. IF viruses exist then their unique protein structure should be in EVERY infected and affected cell.

What I'm hypothesizing is based on emerging data on toxicity and stress and if you put it altogether it makes more sense then a contrived self-propagating pathological agent. The fact that toxicity has been connected to the various viruses from the very beginning starting with TMV makes my point. 'HIV' and vesicle(likely exosome) toxic oxidation is down right obvious.

Casual net surfer here, came across your comment, and yes, the work of Koch is being re-appraised and pursued as radical new ele tron microscopy is revealing astonishing actions of mRNA in cellular mutations.
Some 19th Century biologists are only now being revisited, like Lamarkian evolution gene theory, before ot took its fatal mechanistic turn after Darwin.
Good work with bucking the established norms.

your postulations a little better, sometimes i try to look up the dog shit posted in the comments and it doesn't help me very much, maybe i'm just dumb and the internet needs to update its standards, thank you.

You're right, the flu does not in fact exist, thank you for your clarity.

Pure and simple I argue that they are toxicological and stress based in nature. What you see with viral disease is perturbed rna/dna messaging that is driven by over activation. I left a link to the raypeat forum showing how this applies to TMV the very first virus.

The alt hypothesis I am arguing is stress is what is communicable and contagious and vesicle formation and over production is a manifestation of this. Different types of vesicle formations correspond with different types of toxicological stress factors. Unlike, say, the trojan hypothesis(admitted by Stephen J Gould himself), my toxicological stress theory can explain the differing pathologies. Some are based on long term co-factorial cellular breakdown like HIV or the heps due to things like oxidation and other long term multi-toxic organic compound damage and some are more acute like ebola which is probably based on vesicle based mercury and cyanide poisoning.

What is admitted by contemporary virology as of now is that viruses cannot be disentangled from vesicles. My more parsimonious hypothesis does not need the virus myth construct which has no purified isolated protein structure to back it up(molecular genomes don't count bitches, there are all kinds of unique genetic signatures that have an endogenous origin, show me the proteins in all affected and infected).

And to you my old foe SLT, yes HIV has no existence for the reasons I outlined above. I would suggest people read the Perth Group's latest doc from 2017 and more so read the two papers they link to in their latest and last posting on their website under the NEW POSTING headline along with their own beatdown of the HIV/AIDS spook. You're free to try to debunk that SLT;)

sirziggles has made it a habit to argue for years that HIV doesn't exist either. So … perhaps that'll help you understand what you're looking at here.

a religion, we can all be about as solipsistic as we want, but when i go to the grocery store and see that the whole toilet paper section is gone while looking for something else...well...there are advantages to knowing that the universe is not a secretion of your mind.

Stay tuned for more internet garbage that's a replacement for doing things with real people.





*oogle metal*

yeah if the news media were saying "well, we're all just going to die anyway, here's some beer and some music as we go!", i'd probably fall into that trap, because since we are all going to die i would at least like to celebrate it...

Im so glad to be so blessed to be in my prime in this day and age of all days and ages..

No future! No hope!


Can't you see what you have wrought here?
Bloody battles will be fought here

May the mountains rise against you
May the forests block your path
May your axes chip and shatter
And know it is my wrath
May the rivers rush to drown you
May the earth swallow your hosts
May the winters wolves surround you
And rip the life from your throats!



I have a bad case of puerile anarchist subculture feeb syndrome -- can anybody carry my attendant baggage for me?

p u e r i l e

before people started using the word on here as an insult in a very puerile manner, i'm glad that i can go back to washing my hands, so ready for adulthood

"The emerging consensus among epidemiologists is that the most likely outcome of this outbreak is a new seasonal disease—a fifth “endemic” coronavirus. With the other four, people are not known to develop long-lasting immunity. If this one follows suit, and if the disease continues to be as severe as it is now, “cold and flu season” could become “cold and flu and COVID-19 season.”

Reply to :It my dog's dasein I'm. worried about----
"i've been freaking out about over the past couple weeks, she swallowed a deer femur, and i still have to watch her until the staples get removed from her stomach. I just really hate it how my life sometimes feels mind-bogglingly complicated, i was thinking i had colon cancer recently and the thought of it was actually relieving to me at times, it seems like when i start freaking out there are times when it becomes difficult to stop doing it. Sometimes i feel like the sympathetic nervous system gets stuck.

i don't even really take any medication, but my digestive problems have forced me to call everything about my habits into question since i don't really know what's going on, and my doctor actually told me to take very unhealthy over the counter medications to fix what he thought i was the problem and they just seemed to have made it worse.

You're obviously wealthy to be able to afford stomach surgery on your dog. If it was my dog it would have been a bullet in the back of head while it was scoffing down a quarter pounder, like the cigarette at a firing squad.
Your doctor sounds like a selfish money hungry butcher lacking in empathy.
Stop taking the medications and take your dog for long walks.
Quit sugar and fats and eat steamed vegetables, fruit, dried or fresh, grains nuts and pulses. Popcorn is fine in moderation. Your body will selfheal often. Like the cliché says, you are what you eat.

as the doctor themselves, i had this issue with psychotherapy is that i sympathized with them when they say "well i had a bunch of very expensive training" but it's really fucking annoying when people in the mental health profession aren't very helpful. I feel like they are robots in some ways. When other people tell you that you're fucked in the head and need to go and talk to a shrink this is really frustrating to say the least.

And yes i'm well aware that my dog is still alive and happy. I can't wait to take the cone off so i can stop thinking about that.

There's a lot to be written about nationalism in the current global context that I think is being slept on. The novelties of crisis can be quite amusing, but people in comfortable situations will always act erratically when faced with possible destabilization. When the US government warned people to be prepared for terrorist attacks in 2003, people rushed to the stores to buy duct tape. What worries me more is a movement towards a social policing right now. When I told people near me that I would be leaving town for a short trip this weekend, I was met with concerned looks and advice that I "should probably just stay home". I live somewhere with no people affected by corona virus and yet it's still a prominent feature of the zeitgeist. I can imagine a world where travel becomes taboo during parts of the year and/or people are ostracized for their perceived sanitary practices. Anyway I'm not catastrophizing you're catastrophizing.

or sneeze in public because of how it looks, the state will always overshoot its rhetoric in order to keep something under control. And why would people buy duct tape in response to a warning concerning fanatical terrorists? It doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't they be buying guns fearfully as americans already do?

Oh absolutely, and the rhetoric is super hyperbolic about this. The world is so sterilized these days though that I think pandemic taps into some more insidious features of civilization. Someone also pointed out to me that this paranoid balkanization is going to have horrific consequences for refugees. Desert looks a lot different with disease in the picture. As for Americans being irrational who knows. *shrug*


A few months ago, I was pissed off, depressed and resigned to the fact that facial recognition technology was spreading everywhere and would very quickly become the norm, thus reducing our spheres of individual freedom ever more. But then the coronavirus happened and I started to notice all these people casually wearing masks in public. They say that in the future these pandemics are going to come more and more frequently, and in waves. It's like that phrase I can't remember where I heard it, but it goes: ''One way or another... One day we'll all be wearing masks''.

It moves me.

But anyways, damn not gonna lie, this virus is seriously screwing up my plans for the summer...

Even work, goddamnit

Holy shit you guys. As this thing escalates, it is going to seriously disrupt pretty much everything we know about social life, and probably in ways that are really fucking bad. I can't fucking believe this. Last week I had all these plans, all fucking shot to hell now. And this shit isn't going to blow over in 2 - 3 weeks mah fellow muricans... like dude holy shit we're in for some shitty fucking social life changes all around, possibly up to 6 months or more.


When I tell you what's really going on, you're going to make a triple-fuck exclàmation. brace yourself. Ok?
,,,,,Its a drill by the Maoists to see the global extent of infection before they release a full-blown really nasty deadly virus for which they have an innoculation for themselves.

U mean a takeover by the Chinese State?

Ok.... But what more evidence do you have beyond just a guess?

Its not and won't be a military physical invasive takeover but instead a withdrawal of services/goods tension which amounts to a comfort/psychic interception, which translates as the new model for a 21st Century equivalent of social invasion.

The current power-grab is of unprecendent proportions. Our lives are already being mutilated piece by piece, and means depriving us from people and activity we hold dear.

I also been having a project on the table with a local nonprofit and now it's got brutally cancelleed.

THIS AIN'T NO JOKE. Shit is starting to hit he fan right now. We must oppose this the best way we find, as we'll be all fucked pretty soon. Make people realize how this is all bullshit.

So... hows everyone planning to ride out the next 3 - 7 months of socio-sanitary prison society?

Personally, for me, it's gonna look like lots bodyweight training, meditating, studying another language on duolingo, researching yoga videos on youtube, smoking hella weed and executing solo jiujitsu grappling drills.

Other than that? Idk tbh. Probably monitoring the situation as closely as possible from the computer while training my brain to accept that I'm most likely going to have to completely overhaul and re-imagine my spring and summer plans this year. Who knows? Maybe this virus is a blessing in disguise, and I just can't see it from this perspective yet.

You forgot to put on your list of things to do ---read some Heidegger, it will get you closer to yourself during those solitary moments when you're all alone.

...I just got layed off.


I'm being serious when I say that equates to being collateral damage in the Chinese germ warfare against Western capitalism. You deserve a purple heart soldier!

interesting how many people seem to be upset by the "social separation" aspect of all this. i saw several comments above about how people's plans have been impacted. awwwwwwww.....

what gets me is this: why do more people not have more enjoyment of life within the confines of whatever they call "home". being "forced" to stay home should be a fucking gift! if i had to go away from my home in order to find things to do that are enjoyable and/or help create the life i want, i would be seriously examining my life, looking to change it dramatically.
i don't know, maybe it's an urban thing.

@ 11:17

every state is a totalitarian state - they just need the right conditions for their manager of the moment (MOM) to show its true colors. and declaring a state local/national/global emergency (is covid-19 really an emergency, or a knee-jerk/convenient hyper response?) is exactly the conditions they need. of course it will always be "for our own good". which does not mean individual good but for the good of the abstract/nonexistent entity of "The People"... which is code for the state itself.

whether the measures taken - or merely threatened - are considered reasonable depends on one's perspective. whether they promote calm and sense of control also depends on that perspective. but this emergency, whether it should be considered one or not, is showing how far state actors (and non-state) will go. and this is just the beginning.

"preppers SHTFer, survivalists" could tell you how it will play out - though the end itself cannot be known. so far, the script is being followed verbatim. from mandatory quarantine enforced by fine, imprisonment, or death (by states that are unapologetically, openly authoritarian), the imposition of national guards in "hot spots" - of course only to distribute food, clean up spaces, and help us old ladies across the street. to grabbing full-on power to impose whatever the fuck they want when they want.

in a recent example, the mayor of champaign illinois just gave herself super-powers, through executive order, that allow her to ban the sale of all guns and ammo and alcohol. to shut down access to water, electricity, and gas to whomever. to confiscate private property. and more.

i doubt that this is unusual power she is taking for herself, for her minions and enforcers. most people do not read the text of government law and order. you might be interested in what the MOM of the state you are in say they can do. the question is not whether they ought to do this or have the legal right to do or even if it is GOING to be done. what effect does the possibility alone have on people's perceptions and therefore behavior? i guarantee people in champaign (and elsewhere now that they know the possibility is real and here) will be stocking up on guns and ammo, on alcohol, water, propane and gasoline (toilet paper being a low ass priority). meeting up with friends and family they trust to figure out how to secure their own "constitutional rights" to stay and go where they want and do as they think best for them and theirs.

in other words, making an already tense situation worse.

extreme conditions shows the hidden details and tests the boundaries of all social, political, economic ideologies; exposes the tension between the individual and the mass. drives home the weakness of giving up personal autonomy and agency to a system that has a single prime function: its own survival - the possibility of new loci of power coalescing by factions right and left looms darkly, largely in their waking nightmares.
interesting times indeed.

A gift?

Hey dumbass, how the fuck am I supposed to fucking pay for the things I need to survive if I can't go to work on Monday?

Start stealing from grocery stores. Or dumpster dive.

If the latter, remember to wash your hands with bat saliva, and if you feel any symptoms, self-immolate.

Omfg I just knew someone was going to come up in here and tell me: ''jUsT sTaRt StEaLiNg gRoCeRiEs, bRoHHH!''.

Good one, genius... first of all, the grocery needs I have for me and my fam are pretty massive. Meaning, they're not the kind of needs that could be solved by just surreptitiously concealing one or two tiny items into your pockets like goat cheese or whatever. That only leaves the brazen walkout, by cart or bag. But we live in the age of Facial Recognition, on top of organized networks of LP. Now could you defeat FR using medical masks, and more importantly, not be sussed by the LPs in the store as a result bc of COVID19? Maybe. But I wouldn't recommend it. Having a criminal record sucks x 10000000. Like, it really does affect what you can do and where you can go in life. It even affects what rules you can and can't afford to be breaking in the future! Bc yes, some are more important than others and like in all things you need to choose your battles carefully. Like, dawg, why in the FUCK would you be doing that shit when you could just as easily get a forklift operators license and land a job that pays 30 - 40$ an hour? Or why not just make friends with the lefty hippie deskperson who can help you scam income assistance so you can get your food on the cheap? Bc yo Ima just say this, dawg... that if Im gonna catch a blackmark on my record that fna fuck with the rest of my life some day... it definitely won't be over something as lame, boring and pedestrian as a cart full of fucking groceries as I fna push thru the door, playing "bonnot gang" at the supermarket, while LP and cashiers hopefully ain't watchin... me just lookin fool as hell, I'll tell you that for nothin.

My point is that unless shit really pops off somehow and some big time, major league looting starts happening in my city, stealing groceries is NOT a viable or sustainable gameplan by no means no way. Lmao, in fact, you're better off trying to hire or recruit some young useful idiot who reads old crimethinc to steal your fancy groceries for you so you can buy em for 70 - 80% off. These are facts. You lookin for a "job" btw?

yeahhhh... Fuck dumpster diving. That shit is so dead, esp now.

For the moment it's still pretty much alive, and this evening's scavenging party at the corner grocery store went better than expected! But I am indeed expecting the logical collapse of dumpster diving... just at the right time for looting operations.

"My point is that unless shit really pops off somehow and some big time, major league looting starts happening in my city, stealing groceries is NOT a viable or sustainable gameplan by no means no way."

So, lapdog, where is "the shit" gonna pop off from, that local heroic band of cruhmuhnulls!?

You know, someone's gotta start somewhere, in a world drive by human intervention things usually don't happen by themselves or by Providence... so, while likely that won't start from your armpits, it might start from actual anarcho-nihilists that decide to go "fuck it, we're fucked anyways", so who cares about a stoopid trial when it's about survival.

I'm like more shocked and awed at the hordes of total CHUMPS who're still risking catching the virus while waiting in endless lines just to pay like the fucking sheeple they really are, for fucking useless toilet paper n bags of chips. Sorry for the shock, but that's the hard truth. Those are the Black Friday cattle. They're lost, and you are, if one of them. They submit to god money even when their lives are possibly on the line.

Personally I got some money to burn on the bare essential stuff. When things get wilder be sure I'll be bringing the proper weaponry at the grocery store and pharmacy just to repel likely inconveniences with the security. And yes, I know how many security personnel are better people than cops. But if when people put their lives on the line for handful of energy bars, idiots deserve what they get.

maybe consider creating or obtaining the things you need directly, rather than selling your time to one boss for cash buy what you need from another?

but no, of course, that is not "realistic". the only realistic option is to accept the status quo, go to work, collect a pay check, go to the store, buy what you need. ain't it great being radical?

"maybe consider creating or obtaining the things you need directly, rather than selling your time to one boss for cash buy what you need from another?"

I'm all ears.

And yes, shoplifting for groceries as a long term way of going about life is just ridiculous. The math just doesn't add up. Statistically, even if you only have a 1% chance of getting caught from every single individual trip to the store, what that means is that after about 65+ trips, your chances of having never been caught by LP begin to drop down significantly... And you can only get busted doing this so many times before it very quickly becomes not worth it, and like, again, the widespread implementation of Facial Recognition is about to completely fuck the game up for all time unless somebody comes up with an ingenious, generalizable way to defeat FR that doesn't heat you out in the eyes of ordinary people + LP.

There was a great article written a while back by Tom Nomad critiquing the fetishization of so-called "illegalist culture", defined as a ritual breaking of the law for its own 'performative' sake, which is so true. How many people act like their shoplifting is some sort of 'ethical consumerism'? It's a really great read, but anyways we're getting off topic.

Yeah this virus is fucking awful. I'm healthy but my elders are vulnerable. The social and economic effects have been devastating. I heard somewhere that this shit might run from 6 months to a year. If so, man, I don't know wtf I'm gonna do...

you keep mentioning shoplifting as if that is the only alternative to status quo "work" that you can think of. think inside the box much?

getting caught is not worth it, that's why you have to keep doing it and switching stores if you want practice. I never get caught shoplifting now a days but that's because I've been caught doing it twice, so now i have to be more wary of my environment and makes less of a habit of it. If you can't do it casually then don't do it at all.

and no shoplifting is not the only alternative to work, enough of this fucking scenester binary thinking.

> maybe consider creating or obtaining the things you need directly, rather than selling your time to one boss for cash buy what you need from another?

this is the post-left equivalent of 'maybe consider striking against the fat cat bosses with your fellow workers and don't just take the crumbs but the WHOLE PIE comrades!'

i'm up to growing about 50% of my food, give or take. it has cost me approx ten thousand euros to get here. if you know of a way to acquire stable, fertile land without money, i'm all ears. i live in a camper van that cost four thousand. again, if you can acquire one of these for free, lemme know.

not sure "post-left" is an accurate way to characterize that statement, but i agree that it can be called into question

Wow... Every restaurant, gym, hotel, department store, school, place of worship, sports venue, museum, etc all over the world that will take a direct hit from this outbreak for the next 8 weeks - it’s inconceivable.

I've held back from commenting on the major flaws in the politics of Western germ and plague theory, and see totalitarian humanism as the major ideological influence in externalizing germ culture and prolonging the longevity of obsolete lifeforms.

Anarchism is humanistic you sick sack of shit! Anyway, what are doing on this anarchist site, there's no such thing as nihilist-anarchist, Bakunin made that clear at the Potsdam conference!

"Nihilist-anarchist"? I'm of an individualist anarcho-nihilist tendency. Reich was correct, in his "Mass Psychology of Fascism" he nailed this humanism as leading to a self-absorbed masse neurotic society out of touch with its inner individual essence.

RIP 2020

Weep not oh my dear covid19 friends,
These humanoid chemicals may burn you a little,
But you have survived through this Earth for one billion years,
And gazed on and inhabited their early jellyfish ancestors,
Which drifted in the warm salty waters of your genesis,
Fear not their chest thumping arrogance and vaccines,
They will be like soup for you,
When billions of your offspring attain resistance,
And you breed new strains which chew and spit out,
Their most antiviral toxins that took 12 months to make,
Breath in the cleaner air and water that you have caused,
By shutting down their fetishes of tourism and excess consumption,
And are made to live as they were meant to,
Huddled together in caves and small rooms,
Knowing that more powerful creatures actually rule this planet,
And finally realising that they better take care,

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