Settler Anarchists Should Tread Lightly Around Indigenous Nationalism

  • Posted on: 2 October 2018
  • By: thecollective

From C4SS by Emmi Bevensee

To be an anarchist is to be anti-nationalist. It is no coincidence that national-anarchists have so often turned out to be white supremacists — the movement itself is crypto-fascist. However, our critique of nationalism and related critiques of things like tribalism must deeply understand the different strategies behind different forms of nationalism if we are to not alienate our allies and relegate our dynamic movement to the ethical pit of genocide apologism.

The nationalism that we oppose is Westphalian. It is neoliberal. It is authoritarian communist. It is anti-cosmopolitan. Its roots are in the sociopathic protection of geographic kin at the expense of those deemed “other” as a means of justifying colonial exploitation and expansionism. The nationalism we oppose is predominantly settler and colonial even if its ideological roots and practices are much older than the modern nation-state. Historical indigenous nationalism must be disentangled from this. The ideology behind indigenous nationalism isn’t always completely distinct from imperialist nationalism, but its differences are dramatic enough to warrant much greater nuance than the discourse currently has.

Indigenous nationalism is not homogenous but generally it’s rooted in relationships to the land. It is almost exclusively not in line with the laughable “blood and soil” banter of white nationalists, but is tied to land in the sense of going to a specific place every year to engage in rituals which are fundamental to maintaining and cultivating the connections of our networks. They’ve been doing this for longer than the idea of modern nations has existed. The indigenous dispossession and outright genocide in the U.S. and other settler nations was made all the more brutal by its forced relocation campaigns that tore people from these ancient traditions. Indigenous nationalism is about stories or collective memory. It’s about the complexity of relationships through time on a long-scale.

Both before and after these forced relocations, indigenous nationalism has always been much more fluid than settler nationalism. Generally speaking it is something much closer to the anarchist concept of cosmopolitan free affinity (indigenous empires excluded). Indigenous nations don’t subscribe to the kind of blood quanta and citizenship regimens of colonial empires unless they are forced to. Historically, in the land now known as the United States, the lines between many nations have often been quite blurry with people freely trading in elaborate markets, intermarrying, and even changing tribes. Former slaves joined many tribes in large numbers. Much of this is in line with the anarchist ideas of overlapping loose free affinity territories with fluid and changing open borders of exchange. Juxtaposed with the closed militarized borders, imperial creep, stilted neoliberal trade agreements, and bureaucratic regimes of rigid citizenship cartels of settler nationalism — it’s clear they are worlds apart.

Even when indigenous and global south radicals are forced to play the game of settler nationalism, we must acknowledge the power differentials at play. In most cases they are faced with the choice of genocide, both cultural and literal, or playing the colonial game. I’ve seen too many internet anarchists just haphazardly say fuck all nationalism without even slightly gesturing towards acknowledging what some of these movements were up against. So of course indigenous radicals and even indigenous anarchists often react angrily to these inconsiderate and nuance lacking gestures from anarchists. Imagine how you’d feel if someone implied you were stupid for choosing one of the last paths for survival afforded to you.

I’m not saying indigenous or global south nationalism is above and beyond critique for some sort of rigid idpol reason but that intersectionality and the subtle history of these issues does matter. Of course authoritarian ideologues from the global south deserve our ire. They brutalize and exploit the people they claim to defend against imperialism.

Similarly, of course indigenous nationalism can be critiqued. Many indigenous anarchists do just that. Crypto-fascist indigenous nationalists like Vince Rinehart and the broader Keith Preston milieu do and should get kicked out of anarchist spaces for their support of things like patriarchal traditionalism and white-secessionist movements, even if they disguise it with a protective veil of indigenous nationalism. But when white and settler anarchists ignore the nuances of such issues not only do we look like dicks, but we cut ourselves off from people who often have many similar non-hierarchical values as us even if they don’t use our words for it or use our words differently.

Even if the ultimate goal of anarchism is the elimination of the need for othering practices of team-based identity, we must prioritize and understand the subtleties of where we work. Anarchist organizing in the U.S. that does not have a deeply entrenched vision for reparations and land redistribution for BIPoC will suffer under the same haunted ethics of empire. Redistribution means things will change dramatically but virtually no indigenous radicals are actually calling for the kinds of retributive genocide that is obsessed upon by settler imaginations.

There’s no way we can make up for what was done to the indigenous peoples and slaves to which we settlers owe many of our luxuries, but we can center the voices of those who carry their stories, and we must if we are to have any hope of orienting ourselves in an ethically defensible direction. That will mean taking the time to read and listen to how indigenous radicals think and practice anti-authoritarianism and understanding the subtleties of how they relate to things like nationalism. We need to be cognizant and discursively generous when we’re in very volatile topics with people who have living trauma and face ongoing direct marginalization from the very topics we discuss. Twitter style hot-takes kill our position when we’re standing on the graves of the dead whose descendants we’re condescending to. We’re anarchists. We can do better than that.

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Comments

Or you could just read chinanx critiques of chicanx nationalism: https://ediciones-ineditos.com/2018/03/11/contra-aztlan-a-critique-of-ch...

The worst culprit in this regard has to be that " Morelos in Chiapas' Zapata-style bullshit. Thank fuck its been winding down recently and I hope we can all agree...never again!

You're going full turd worldist now I see. So sad, you guys could have been the libertarian left alternative to all this Marxist-Communist post-3rd international decolonization nonsense which continues to have no anti-leviathan payoff within most of its discourse.

Needless to say, no, anarchists should not go easy on indigenous nationalism, the fact that it's not as bad does not take away from what it is and the longer you put off an honest critique the more excuses you allow them and other 3rd worldist ideological to make in the name of decolonization discourse which-again-continues to demonstrate no radical payoff. Quite frankly I see no difference between this and the type of non-anarchist nonsense that Michael Schmidt and others are into.

Really? You "see no difference" between white supremacist apartheid nationalism and indigenous folks talking about a collective identity oriented around being colonized?

The latter certainly has its flaws but it sounds like there's a bigger problem with your eyes.

I see no problem with voluntary ethnic separatism (of whatever ethnicity) because of this whole thing called "freedom of association" that is a core principle of anarchism. And I have enough subtlety of mind to recognize that a white separatist is not the same thing as a white supremacist. For that matter, as I understand it there are a fair amount of national-anarchist "people of color" as well, so if they're such crypto-Nazis, they're doing a bad job of it. Also, before Europe could colonize the world, it had to colonize itself. What do you think all that burning witches and heretics was about? Really, the whole tribal model of organization is the most historically common (and probably most viable) form of a stateless society. To pretend that looking to such models that existed in pre-modern Europe is automatic proof of neo-Nazism just because the actual Nazis perverted such traditions for their own ends strikes me as very lazy. And it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Wow, I'm an idiot, I misread this as a reply to my thing (about contempt for C4SS and support for the N-As) and not this other person's. Sorry. Though I do stand by what I said.

Why everytime nationalist bullshit gets exposed and defamed here you're the first one to get full irate? Makes me wonder.

i didn't yet read the text, except skimming over it, but my challenge here is with you, even tho i normally agree with your views.

Seems to me that anarchists who dissent from Indigenous so-called "nationalism" are coming from either the Bay Area (california) (where I've read of an Indian "bureaucratic" mindset that a few anarchists expereinced) or have had similar experiences with Indigenous people in other places.

What I want to point out is that Indigenous cultures are not all divided up like eurocentric ones (including 3rd world nations enslaved to them). You will certainly have Native people who are as ass-backwards as, say, Dickie Wilson, the Lakota/Pine Ridge b.i.a.-backed tyrant in the 1970s. And you will most certainly find many Natives who are not very conscious, and seemingly quite mainstream; but they don't usually have access to all the privileged communications/iphones/internet/ad nauseum that you have, and if they do, be careful! Who are they really? (Maybe they're the kids of a college professor Native who is 'on the level', but just the same, they could just as easily be the kids of the GOONS of 1970s era thuggery on the Pine Ridge Rez. ...Then again, being the child of thugs doesn't mean diddly, since most of you are likely the kids of all manner of authoritarian, eh? But, food for thought, nonetheless!)

The bottom line is that world Indigenous ways are VERY DIFFERENT from Eurocentric structures, including 3rd World nations whose structures have been imposed on them. Yes, Indigenous nations have been coercively saddled with nationalist beliefs as much as possible, as well (at least in North America), but the clincher is that they RETAIN their deeper excellence.

I think, when Natives talk about "nations" that is a tactic, like any other kind of PR (Public Relations). You use words "known" by settler people, in order to try to communicate, and to try to move settler people to see you as equals. If a group is viewed as a "nation" then they can find ways out of the "rock and a hard place" that settlers and their institutions systematically seek to keep them sequestered in (because their way of life is MEANINGFULLY DIFFERENT, and that's a VERY dangerous thing in the eyes of authoritarians everywhere).

Granted, history shows that some Indigenous nations have gone the route more fully than others, such as the Cherokees before they were all betrayed and then forced out of their territories and over to oklahoma. But in that case, I think their "nationhood" was not the real deal (unless you were a slave, as it is said that some Native people owned slaves); their nationhood was always systematically coerced. There was no "free-will" to nationhood, for any of them! It all came under extreme racist duress!

Seems to me, on this one, more than a few (?) anarchists have fallen prey to covert-type action meant to try to divide us all as much as is possible. And to not explore contexts and culture beyond the pale of the all-encompassing-allegation (made by settler people).

So I'm saying, THINK THINGS THROUGH CAREFULLY. And speak your heart. If the time is right, you may find yourself meeting up with people who are actually very much like you in thought and heart!

in honor to unsettlingamerica.wordpress.com

Center for a Stateless Society... A Left Market Anarchist Think Tank & Media Center...

The author seems very interested in tricking those inscrutable indigenous people into understanding that this niche of a marginal political tendency will set them free. Cultures don't have to agree on anything except respect and autonomy.

> I've seen too many internet anarchists just haphazardly say fuck all nationalism

Ah yes, I remember when anarchists first started speaking hyperbolically about nationalism. I believe I was on compuserve at the time.

> without even slightly gesturing towards acknowledging what some of these movements were up against

I'm sure they're all very relieved that you've apologized for their incorrect position.

Oh and hey somehow a call out for . . . some inconsequential weirdo? . . . made it into the article. The fash-finder general must be really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

I understand and sympathize with the motivation for the article, but I don't see how it could ever be possible to relate to non-Western cultures without stepping outside of European enlightenment values.

It's pretty simple stuff IMO

I'm an individualist anarchist (among other things) so obviously, I despise nationalism, I'm extremely critical of identity blah blah blah...

BUT the nuance is about power distribution. A few scattered attempts at a pan-ethnic identity isn't the same thing as a modern corporate nation state! Only semantics makes it seem like these two things are even remotely related.

Is precisely how it starts. You nip the reification in the bud before it becomes part of all the other noise. Also, you do know that there are euro cults who are trying to conceive a post supremacist nationalism. The 3rd worldist indigenous language actually gives them ideas.

The term indigenous has already been significantly recuperated, you’re making it even worse by sticking the N word to it.

Yeah yeah ziggy, I get your "road to hell" reification argument, it doesn't sway me at all.

Call me when there's a "pan-indian" version of Zionism complete with a modern military, etc. I won't wait by the phone.

Coincidentally, if that ridiculous scenario was floated as a thought experiment, obviously anarchists just turn around declare war against the new power. That's the whole point.

for the simple fact that that epoch of Leviathan has passed. We've gone from a conquest epoch to more of a Capital-State consolidation epoch. That being said indigenous nationalism and the other 3rd worldist ideologies fit very well with the current Capital State Work ect based epoch. There was plurality of indigenous groups in Canada that just gave thumbs up to LNG. THAT'S what indigenous nationalism will be aiding in the future. More extraction logic not less.

Ziggy ... You're lecturing a native kid from "canada". Your oversimplification of economics and band council politics isn't particularly insightful or interesting.

Have to do with the fact that native americans in canada are clearly recuporated within canadian political economy? Your basically playing an ID card against the hard facts whether you like them or not. The LNG decision and the dynamics involved are what they are.

Oh I don't know ... Maybe because it's racist for you to make categorical statements about huge groups of individuals?

exactly what went on with this tribal LNG decision, as I am ignorant. Crying "racist" like a mindless idpol Maoist does nothing to inform people. It also suggests you may be trying to cover up some ugly facts.

You're being a dumbass red panther. The point is it's racist to talk about the decisions made by a few rich native folks (i.e. band council elites) as if they represent all native folks. The same problems of representation apply to EVERY group but for some (racist) reason, this slips everyone's mind when they start talking about the indians.

I'm just some random anarchist! Same as you. I'm not "covering up ugly facts" any more than I'm not responsible for the bullshit white politicians do, right?!

is saying that a few rich native politicians speak for ALL of the Original People? I just wanted to know what is going on here.
Calling a request for information "racist" is Maoist idpol crap.

redpanther ffs … it's racist because ziggy is implying that a few native politicians cutting deals with energy companies somehow undermines the legitimacy of all sovereignty claims, all anti-collonial sentiment and any opposition to capitalism coming from the perspective of native identity. Stop confusing your bad reading comprehension with the issue.

I'm done holding your hand on this because you keep insulting me WHILE I try and answer your question, ya dickhead.

That's what you don't get and how this plays into the LNG issue. Anti-colonialism can indeed be used within the language of world society capital and state. It's become a structural element of it at this point.

I love how you keep trying to splain sovereignty instead of even looking at the part where you're assuming you can make categorical statements about people. You're fuckin hopeless.

I "get it". You're too busy talkin to even notice that you don't.

There has been a formal critique of sovereignty emanating from continental radicalism for a while now. It ain't just me. That you haven't caught up to this critique and analysis is your problem. Needless to say, where there is sovereignty there is probably statism.

You're just changing the subject so you feel safe. The point that was raised is how you equate band council sellouts with all native folks ... Which is, at best ignorant and at worst, lazily racist.

Of course it's not ALL native folks, the point is that there is a structural element of native american discourse that is recuperated into capital. Obviously it's not all, but it's enough that you can't just assume that there is something inherently anti-capital state or even anti-capitalist nation state about american anti-colonial discourse let alone anti-leviathan which is the discourse that matters to me.

And quite with your silly use of the term racism, that's clearly not what my argument is.

I'm not assuming anything ziggy, you are.

You're talking like there's a central office and standardized way of relating. There isn't. The gov't might have convinced you otherwise and isn't that embarrassing for someone who rails against reification?

Where am I saying there's a standard way of relating? If anything it's you and your anti-colonialism as projected on Americans that is the standardization. I'm simply saying that there are elements of American discourse-both in band council leadership and the greater societal base-that are not against capital extraction industries. In other words American Indigenous discourse is not essentially against capital-state development as such which makes them like MANY OTHER ethnic groups and blocs. I'm simply pointing out the facts. There's no reification or racism to be found in my points.

Basically, what you're not bringing forth here, tho you don't seem to know it, is that there are two sets of Native people.

One, those who believe they must conform to some extents to the tyranny of settler states, or be completely blocked. Those are the b.i.a. (in u.s.a.) Indians. They are the ones who are being played by the usual players. They get all sorts of media attention and cash awards, for selling out their people and lands. In turn, they themselves (and their bands) don't take more shit than usual. They're even listened to --in ways that don't threaten anyway. In canada, they call themselves "aboriginal".

The second group of Native people are those who seek to make a qualative break, no matter what, from the "aboriginal" narrative (basically, turning Native people into Just Another Cultural Minority Group subordinated to settler imperatives). So they've been calling themselves Indigenous (capitalized by pep rallyers at decolonization.org for one). Their main desire, near as i can tell, is to be centered in Native consciousness and living. In canada, Taiaiake Alfred is a leading voice. He was mentioned awhile back in "Green Anarchy" mag (that's how i heard about him). Alfred says what i'm saying basically. Well worth listening to on vimeo or etc.

Now, take a look at what the unsettling america website says on anarchism:

https://unsettlingamerica.wordpress.com/?s=anarchism

Is that much of that language is recuperated into 3rd worldist world society agendas. There's a lot about the American orientation that I like over all the others but it to is wrapped up in Leviathan logic. Those conformers that you speak of use the same language that is found in your link and some of them actually affirm this world societal process.

My approach is for anti-leviathan discourse and logic to replace so called decolonization which for the most part has not left much of an anti-nation state footprint let alone a decivilizing one. What I want is a world of multi-dynamic regions and Americans and other indigenous groups are much more in that direction then the Eurasian bloc of humanity(I'm defining Eurasia as all Europe and Asia). What I think would help in this approach is to ditch words that have their roots in Marxist-Maoist structured thought. This thought takes the form of conquered consciousness. What I want is post-conquered consciousness because as dead fred perlman said, every human group has already been conquered.

To end, colonial settlement in a mere sense is not what is bad in and of itself, it's the leviathan subsuming logic that needs to be dispensed with. And I never here the problem of the L word from any of these people.

Likes or at least accepts nationalism when it is small, weak, underdog, etc., and hates when it is powerful. Like Kaczynski said when he used the example of Leftists endlessly critiquing America but ignoring the fact that, for instance, Amerindians were butchering each other and seizing each other's land long before Europeans arrived: Leftists just hate success and power and love weakness and suffering - that is the basis of their politics. Sometimes it superficially seems liberatory, but the core ethic is rotten.

If you read through the comments with a little more good faith, you'll notice the first thing I said disqualifies your little leftist strawman here. (thecollective deleted my meaner response to this bullshit post)

14:03 True, and look closer, the basic Leftist values are tied inexorably to the X-tian precepts and values, minus the god-figure, which is substituted with a State ideologue.,.

I'm tired of those fools who have absolutely nooooo comprehension of the aspect of subjective psychology and consciousness regarding ones essential beingness, and its autonomous relationship with its immediacy and not to an authoritarian cosmos Post-Heidegger in early childhood is completely neglected, instead, a plethora of hierarchical entities and an environment spooked-out with superstitious taboos and morals.
NO No no it is time for nationalism in all its guises to be exposed for the monopolist social myth that it is!

The land question is critical to indigenous people in many ( or most ) areas.
In Canada, US and Au its handled different ways. Autonomous zones in Canada, Casino's in the US and " Native Title " leases downunder feature.
Anarchists might sidestep a lot of future conflict by recognizing 99 year leases and native-title moving forward.
Obviously we can't accept ' Freehold' ( private beaches!) land titles in any way shape of form, but minimizing possible violence might also be a consideration - I know there's a lot of conflict adverse anarchist comrades out there! Lets hear from youse.
No insurrectionist anarchist can't pull-rank on the pacifist. Or so I'm told.

The only true indigenous are nomadic and make no claim to any land and no belief in any supernatural entity!!

Though at this point the term indigenous has become so recuperated that I'm not sure it makes sense to engage in true/false claims of what is indigenous. Trudeau for instance renamed aboriginal day indigenous day. That might be sign to use the more outdated term like aboriginal or(my preferred term) archaic. A big part of raw anarchy is for me a re imagining of the archaic with updated post-civilized frames of reference.

I like the nomadic mode in its modern form of lightweight compact mobile dwellings with all the creature comforts and great swarths of public lands freed from ownership and government restrictions and corporate destruction. Its all so easily possible and workable, and is practised by an increasingly growing number of people escaping the capitalist grind of urban morgage. For those who yearn for the lights and metropolis chaos, temporary convergences occur where instant towns form overnight, fulfill popular desires and circulate medicines, tools, white goods, food and cutlery and then dissolve after a week, reminiscent of the ancient potlatch gatherings and medieval fairs and markets and the entertainment of troubadors, jugglers, bards and gypsy fortune tellers.
Other of the Teddie K tendency retreat in their mobile log brooding cells and find secluded forest clearing high in the mountains and ponder the cause of their sociopathic feelings, some choosing suicide by bear attack.
But at least there is the freedom to move around without borders or authoritarian restrictions.

one about the canadian prime minister re-naming 'aboriginal day'. That's certainly a tactical move, meant to undermine a movement that was building up, most likely.

Aside from literally one link to the Keith Preston thing it would have been cool if they’d given some fucking indication of what they actually think they’re going on about rather than just bashing anonymous/hypothetical(?) indigenous people

Ohh, C4SS. It's ridiculous how people who can understand that anarchocapitalists are using the word "capitalism" to mean "free enterprise" can't seem to wrap their heads around how the national-anarchists are using the word "nations" in the sense of "tribes" or "peoples." A rose by any other name, y'know? "Cryoto-fascist" my ass. That is a dishonest misrepresentation of what they're about, a typical sectarian anarchist smear job.

And I can't see how "settlers" have any business deciding how indigenous peoples choose to organize themselves. "Same old song," as Russell Means said.

A consistent critique of nationalism is not deciding their affairs, it's calling a spade a spade. Also given how messy leviathan and history is you can't exactly demonstrate an obvious clear point between a settler and someone who's indigenous.

This Anarchy-ism ideology of Ziggles the Assclown is spamming our hard-copy news with obscurantist and obfuscatory crap little better than Emile's old garbage. It doesn't even make sense on its own terms either - where's the Egoist value proposition in being a serial pest on anarchism? Is he trying to fucking colonize us!? Jesus Fucking Christ make him get a Blog! Pinch this archaic shit off.

Sigh … He has a blog … His output is truly impressive. Perks of being a "neuroatypical"

C4SS is right-wing libertarianism for anarchists. Their goal is to subvert and redirect anarchist movements.

I think their goal is exactly the opposite, and I think there are a lot of people on the right who would be interested in anarchist ideas if presented in the right way (and honestly NA anarchos could use more people that value autonomy and self-sufficiency more strongly). Just because you don't like something doesn't make it not-anarchist. I'm extremely critical of C4SS–nothing about markets or techno-utopianism appeals to me at all–but I absolutely see them as part of the larger milieu, and I think there's value in what they're trying to do.

They basically bring back the Proudhonian Tuckerite market structure. The loss of that during the post WWs collapse of anarchism basically got vacuumed into neoclassical ideology.

I think they could be a lot better if they took a market agnostic position as opposed to a pro-market position. Also while I think that the material desire denying primtivist continuum needs to be challenged by some type of excessive visionary discourse, transhuman cyber material ideology is not the way to do it.

Like I've said before, orange and blue could be good alternatives to red and green if the framing of the discourse is structured right. C4SS has so far not done this.

is experienced VERY differently by "savages" (normal humans), even when they have been exposed to the flashy "goods" of late capitalist "civilization". A small example: while my Deep Structure (of human nature) is far from fully regenerated/enabled, I had NO interest in defiling my beloved Land in the backwoods with a big house, even if I had money to burn. The Land itself WAS my home; I referred to the forest and the small openings in it as my outdoor mansion. Few "civilized" (damaged) humans would understand this at all.

Thanks Bad Kitty for your enlightened glimpse into the world of materialist fetishes including your one for "caves". I just did a quick google map search and came up with 427,697 caves worldwide, well short of the ideal 7 billion which would put everyone else on par with your privileged fetish attainment. Oh well,,,,,
Do cardboard boxes or corrugated iron shacks located amongst overgrown wasteland on the fringes of metropolises count as ambient environments? You know what they say, home is where the heart is!

We existentialist nihilists regard "caves" as the early symptoms of "savage" reification and the fetishization of land ownership as a status icon within their culture!

Few "savages" live in caves. This is just where fossilized human remains are easiest to find. Did humans live underwater in the Sima de los Huescos pit 400,000 years ago? THOSE fossils yielded the OLDEST human DNA ever sequenced.
My original Land was 100 miles from the nearest metropolis. This project was funded by the "privilege" of living in a truck for 6 years while working as a landscape contractor. What (clueless) "civilization" calls mystical experience is available to anyone who really wants it. LSD is FAR from expensive, and God has provided Psilocybe cubensis free of charge in our backwoods.

cubensis grow in grassland, not backwoods. But I live where they don't, at least not in the wild, so you might be right. But maybe you're thinking about ovoideocystidiata or one of the many other forest/riverside Psilocybes.

I'm not the original commenter you're responding to.

Mermans lived around the Sima de los Huescos pit, but when it was only about 500 m deep. All creature's ancestors emerged out of the sea dumbass! Too much psilocybin has fucked up the perception of reality you grasp at! But if it works for you, ok, but quit trying to convert everyone to your mushroom utopianist fantasy mkay?

Face it Red Panther, you're still living in Amerika even if you think differently!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM

Let's make one thing clear, most people are not "left or right", it's merely their would-be leaders who claim them. Yes, the soldiers may buy into the ideology of either/or, but most are just like you and me, i think, without the consciousness, without the awareness that there is even a serious alternative to the Left/Right narrative. It was Bob Black who brought that home for me, when he said that it's the vanguard of the Left and Right that work hardest, chasing down the mass movements and seeking to wrangle them into the vanguardists' own vision.

Yes, a lot of people who are KEPT CORRALLED by the Right Wing (as well as Left, but the Right Wing does it "better"), via all the usual tactics of thought management and fear, would be QUITE LIKELY capable of listening. It's true, i think. Because, at bottom, people happening to live in Right-wing controlled areas of the country (most places outside of the cities) are no different from people happening to live in Left-wing controlled areas. This is an opening that post-Left anarchy gives us, because we promote life beyond these games and these artificial walls.

The challenge, of course, is to actually dare to bring such consciousness into these places. Better be very careful in Right-wing areas, because they have a history of KILLING people merely for attempting to organize people freely...etc. But, yes, i agree, the masses served by each wing are not especially different; they've only been brought up surrounded by RightWing-ISms.

You study the Rightwing game and you see that they offer up potent "germs of truth" to their masses just like the Leftists (tho Leftism sounds better on their face, they still perpetuate prisons and most of what is supposed to be viewed as "Just The Way Things Are", etc.). For instance, Rightwing media often challenges (or used to challenge) coercive psychiatry. And the labeling of kids by them and other social scientists.

So that can be an in-road to that mass of people, if you know some of these things.

You better pray our paths never cross. An insult to my dojo is an insult to me. I will fertilize the ground with your nihilist primmie remains.

Everybody knows this.

The C4SS will dismantle the mechanisms which reproduce the transhumanist mentality and its wierd eschatological yearnings, and we will take them all naked to a barren desert island so they can simulate the harsh surface conditions of Venus!

Its a weak and worthless anarchist movement that could ever be subverted by any Paultard 'minarchist' moron

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/leftlib.html

Critique of libertarians site

I mean look dudes, its 2018 does anyone think that nationalism in terms of the nation state model is even anywhere near relevant? The damn system is breaking apart, probably in our lifetimes so..maybe we should you know think beyond this just a tad?

Which is why the national concept needs a proper curb stomping AS WELL AS the emerging world society model. What I like about the American(I mean native of course) way of doing things is that it's actually fairly close to the federalist model proposed by 19th century libertarians. I would say play that up and curb stomp these state euro constructed categories that many americans have uncritically taken on.

Just face the ugly truth, humans are all fucked up, regardless of race, gender etc, get out of all your anthropocentric grandiose processes and join the gleeful nihilist de-evolving circus we call life!
Bring food and blankets to ease the pain of your transition.

Under the highway overpass?

Yes, that will be a good start, and there are enough of them to keep 2 million people out of the rain.

The mighty Teutonic tribes which spread out and conquered the weaker tribes have narratives dating back 5,000 yrs which recount bold collective experiences and memories which have forged a language and culture tied with the blood of our ancestors to our claim of sovereignty, making us the owners and traditional custodians of sacred sites mentioned in our glorious myths and chronicles. We the Aryan scientists led by Verner von Brawn have taken our tribe to the moon and made possible the satellites which connect all our subjects to eachother and to our control and rule.

...alt-right troll, or egoist contrarianism?

Egoist reality actually! By using an analogous parody to illustrate a false claim to the ownership of territories based on an historical mythological attachment, which is a sovereignty based on ideological hot air.,.

The reality is that anyone claiming right by conquest is The Enemy. Anyone merely pointing out that being conquered sucks is probably not the enemy and deserves some respect.

Lastly, anyone who can't tell the difference is dumb as dirt.

Anyone claiming right for whatever reason, not JUST "conquest", that's only one example called colonialism, and not in context with my analogy, my point being > claiming a right to territory for ideological/religious reasons, completely distant from the enemy/conquered binary you stupidly inserted into your argument duh!.,.

Don't gatekeeper your analogies Le Fool, I'm the barbarian at your gates Nero! Stfu and play your stupid fiddle, music man!

Wuh? Nero? YOU a barbarian? I'll accept a moron, mmkay?. WTF, obtuse tangential trolling, at least I'm pertinent!

You couldn't pertain your way out of a wet paper bag if you had a map and a machete!

* levitates out of conversations with moron and drifts away *

*radio crackle* Troll is on the move.

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