Topic of the Week - This won't be fully fleshed out (ha, did you see what i did there?) but I've been thinking a bit about the way that anarchists (at least as victims of western civilization) can be very abstracted from our bodies, how that is a part of computer culture, the impact of smelling people, of hearing them move and breathe, of the ways that being in someone's presence is more than the sum of its parts, of how ideas float away from our physical beings, of generalizations and how they are fun to play with but also distract from our subjective, individual experiences.
Do you think that anarchists are more or less prone to dis-embodiment? What are the strengths of recognizing our physical selves and how and when is it better or just more fun to be disembodied? At least for those of us who are online a lot, are we all trans now, in the way that Haraway says we're all cyborgs?
To the extent that bodies are chaotic, how does that reflect on our anarchist negotiation between chaos and order? Or do you relate to your body as order (predictable, reliable, boring), and to your mind as chaos?
Just a prompt, obviously, now talk amongst yourselves!
Comments
to the degree that people can
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 15:29
to the degree that people can be emotionally distant or unavailable while being physically present or maintaining an online presence, and to the degree that “performing” emotional labor, empathy, and care is a thing, a physical or online presence does not equal relating in a meaningful way. embodiment does not equal fulfillment or self-actualization. abstract ideas distract and mediate social relationships in a way that perpetuates forms of separation. the lonely crowd at a concert, a movie theater, a bookfair, or a conference rubs shoulders but avoid relating directly to each other as such for the most part. before computer culture, and the internet, spectacular forms of separation had already been perfected in mass consumer culture.
"spectacular forms of
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 19:11
In reply to to the degree that people can by anon (not verified)
"spectacular forms of separation had already been perfected in mass consumer culture."
Yes, but even in ancient times, in cathedrals, in warfare, in arenas, all thinking the same thing, obeying the same script, kneeling to the same spook.
it worries me how many people
triviabot (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 19:19
it worries me how many people under 25 are still wearing masks all the time, like I wonder if the generation that was a certain age during covid is just going to be emotionally stunted by whatever cultural "trauma" happened during the pandemic. i'm sure this is rage-bait for someone but I do see a correlation between politically correct or "radically correct" politics worn by people of a certain age and their seeming lack of touching grass, being used to things like eye contact and talking to strangers, etc.
...all of which is to say, the State and the capitalists win: cuz performing radicalism and wokeness is easier than persuading (or politically attracting) a person in physical space, but people will settle for the former to get those sweet online dopamine hits.
No need to wonder... i say
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 19:45
In reply to it worries me how many people by triviabot (not verified)
No need to wonder... i say feel free to move on to a genuine, certified, assertion right there!
picking your brain
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 19:58
In reply to it worries me how many people by triviabot (not verified)
sure, but way to turn the conversation into something that scapegoats the internet or generations, instead of age-old questions of bodies: what can a body do? as another commenter mentioned, religions past and present have curious different ways of relating to the body. cleanliness equals holiness, and secular public health, or health consciousness or fads might have some of that. the moral aspect of health as a virtue. but then that's drifting the topic too much into the real of ideas. instead let's ask: what does snot taste like? what is the art of eating a booger?
You're at least 2 knuckles
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 20:00
In reply to picking your brain by anon (not verified)
You're at least 2 knuckles deep, you tell us!
nah, i am not into stretching
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 20:09
In reply to You're at least 2 knuckles by lumpy (not verified)
nah, i am not into stretching holes. my treatment of the topic, as well as my enjoyment of bodies, is much more superficial. sorry if i rubbed you the wrong way. the thing is this gesturing toward bodies is usually just an invitation to wank philosophically. people are rarely eager to really talk about bodies.
Not at all, I was going for
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 20:37
In reply to nah, i am not into stretching by anon (not verified)
Not at all, I was going for amusing banter?
Building on your booger analogy
age-old: our primitive bodies
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 21:16
In reply to picking your brain by anon (not verified)
age-old: our primitive bodies
fairly new: craning our necks down onto phones, clattering away at keyboards, sitting in front of desks...
i'll scapegoat as I please! uncle ted was right!
Ted seemed to scapegoat women
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 21:26
In reply to age-old: our primitive bodies by anon (not verified)
Ted seemed to scapegoat women, queers and leftists quite a lot sooo ... that's firmly within the traditions of the american far right, where he clearly came from and perhaps returned to? If you're in to some sort of afterlife?
Some sort of libertarian shack in the cold part of hell perhaps? It's not so bad! I think he kind of likes it there, writing angry letters by torchlight to his abusive family, for eternity
less new but still new, doing
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/06/2024 - 21:31
In reply to age-old: our primitive bodies by anon (not verified)
less new but still new, doing repetitive motions as part of assembly lines, sitting still and focusing on pages at a particular distance from our eyes, ignoring/tuning out background engines/power lines/etc, smelling manufactured scents rather than plants, soil, bodies...
ARE our bodies still primitive? doesn't the meaning of "body" change with these social changes, even if we still have the parts (or most of them) that people used to?
Yep, the under 25 yr old
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 13:27
In reply to picking your brain by anon (not verified)
Yep, the under 25 yr old "anarchists" still wear masks not because they are shoplifting but because they are non-participants in the big Pharma industrial virus immunization program which they believe interferes with the brain's memory capabilities and dumbs-down the innate revolutionary/social-evolutionary tendencies.
So, in layman terms, they wear masks to prevent biological virus triggered brainwashing.
Why do you babydicks and
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 21:12
In reply to Yep, the under 25 yr old by anon (not verified)
Why do you babydicks and burnouts care so much about what 25-year-old anarchists wear? Mind ya bizness, boomers. You had your run and you blew it.
if this kind of non-argument
anon (not verified) Tue, 10/08/2024 - 08:39
In reply to Why do you babydicks and by anon (not verified)
if this kind of non-argument reaction is the best ya'll got, i might start cozying with those boomers.
No please don't go..
anon (not verified) Tue, 10/08/2024 - 08:48
In reply to if this kind of non-argument by anon (not verified)
No please don't go..
SecUriTy LEt yOu thRougH iNtO
anon (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 02:20
In reply to Yep, the under 25 yr old by anon (not verified)
SecUriTy LEt yOu thRougH iNtO rEstrIctEd aReas wITh a mAsk On aNd cAmeRAs cAn't lInK tOOh wAntED pHOto dAtAbaNks dUh, mAAassKks aRe AnArcH's dIsgUIse!!
In Gaza though you'll get
anon (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 02:22
In reply to SecUriTy LEt yOu thRougH iNtO by anon (not verified)
In Gaza though you'll get shot for wearing a paper covid mask
"it worries me how many
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 11:17
In reply to it worries me how many people by triviabot (not verified)
"it worries me how many people under 25 are still wearing masks all the time,"
Anarchists wear masks and have since the beginning of anarchists doing anarchy. Don't worry about it, pig (nice try, though). You will not unmask us.
you will not unmask us, until
anon (not verified) Tue, 10/08/2024 - 13:24
In reply to "it worries me how many by anon (not verified)
you will not unmask us, until everyone can be unmasked we will all stay masked.
IWW forever!
You must be new here
anon (not verified) Tue, 10/08/2024 - 17:34
In reply to you will not unmask us, until by anon (not verified)
You must be new here
rebuttal
triviabot (not verified) Tue, 10/08/2024 - 21:53
In reply to "it worries me how many by anon (not verified)
the craziest thing about you calling me a pig is having no idea my background with anarchy or sympathy for things like evasion and masking to conceal. I'm not referring to the practice of masking for crime or concealment, I'm referring to everyday consumption behind the performative mask of the woke non-spreader or whatever. But the great thing about thinking you have nothing to learn from older anarchists is you won't learn anything from them if you won't hear...
My prediction is that by year
anon (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 13:58
In reply to rebuttal by triviabot (not verified)
My prediction is that by year's end triviabot joins the ranks of Sam Harris and the anti-woke new atheists after these performative woke youth anarchists refuse to hear about the old days.
Did someone really delete
anon (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 14:03
In reply to rebuttal by triviabot (not verified)
Did someone really delete that kid's reply to triviabot? It is because triviabot is your friend or because it made you feel old?:
Either way that's pretty weak. Why not give triviabot the courtesy of responding instead of thinking you know better than them?
Good thing I had it in another tab:
Submitted by anon (not verified) on Wed, 10/09/2024 - 13:24
What the sigma?? OooOooh we got ourselves a fAmOUs scenester Bay Area rizzler that has things to teach we anarchist youths about why wearing masks is "woke" and "performative" and harmful to our anarchy! Well in that case, celebritybot, tell us how great you made anarchy for the rest of we silly masked youths in this year of our lord 2024. Your un-woke un-masked way must have made things sOoo much better than before!
Just kiddin! ANARCHO-CELEBS AND PIGGY PIGS WILL NOT UNMASK US!
Seriously. Let's all be anarchists here and talk shit out instead of just deleting things. FUCK
that's your idea of "talking"
lumpy (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 15:56
In reply to Did someone really delete by anon (not verified)
that's your idea of "talking"? then you must throw parties full of completely insufferable toxic assholes lol
i'm reading the post looking for a question or a statement or anything that isn't empty snark..?
good thing you fished that turd out of the toilet before it finished flushing!
you're the hero we deserve
Different anon here. Are you
anon (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 16:08
In reply to that's your idea of "talking" by lumpy (not verified)
Different anon here. Are you triviabot, lumpy? No.
meaning... what exactly? you
lumpy (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 16:30
In reply to Different anon here. Are you by anon (not verified)
meaning... what exactly? you'd prefer to beef with just one person at a time? i'll bet you would!
I think Lumpy just likes
triviabot (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 16:37
In reply to meaning... what exactly? you by lumpy (not verified)
I think Lumpy just likes fucking with my trolls, enjoys pulling their thread or something xD
any trolls, anywhere, any
lumpy (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 17:21
In reply to I think Lumpy just likes by triviabot (not verified)
any trolls, anywhere, any time!
*clinking bottle noises* waaarriors....
Now kiss
anon (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 20:35
In reply to any trolls, anywhere, any by lumpy (not verified)
Now kiss
I can see why they deleted it
triviabot (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 16:26
In reply to Did someone really delete by anon (not verified)
I can see why they deleted it since the commenter doesn't do much more than attack me for having an opinion contrary to theirs (?). On other hand, we get a little more context about why this person dislikes me / slightly stalks me / has made up a story about me having any kind of celebrity? Also, for the record, if the masking-up kids somehow prove me wrong and make total anarchy I'd cheer it on. And whoever said I was going to join the Sam Harris crowd doesn't have the slightest clue what I believe. I've always considered the Sam Harris "new atheist" types to be bootlickers and philosophical enemies.
Wait, lol. How did a convo
anon (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 21:25
In reply to rebuttal by triviabot (not verified)
Wait, lol. How did a convo about how technology influences our perception of the wor|d turn into a debate about mask mandates?
Clearly triviabot was dissed
anon (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 08:54
In reply to Wait, lol. How did a convo by anon (not verified)
Clearly triviabot was dissed by some woke anarcho-youths for being an Ohio rizzler and instead of quietly fading away into the shadows, to let the youths do their own thing their own way, he's ovreflown with ressentiment them and has taken the 180-degree position and waged war on anti-wokeness under the guise of being concerned for their fashion health and performative social retardation due to mask brainwashing and elevated levels of carbon dioxide and microplastics.
Tl;dr: "They called me Mr. Glass!"
the problem is that the totw
knar (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 09:51
In reply to Wait, lol. How did a convo by anon (not verified)
the problem is that the totw is unclear in exactly what is being asked. that way it is easier for bots & trolls to derail whatever conversion might have been.
was this totw about technology & how it shifts perception? too many run on sentences and clauses mean the topic can be parsed several different ways, so hard to tell. i may be at my computer typing this but i can also smell the air, see birds & squirrels, hear the garbage truck & traffic. what was the question? am i disembodied? sorry no grass to touch but plenty of native plants.
Muh body
anon (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 11:14
In reply to the problem is that the totw by knar (not verified)
Muh body
I, for one, am disgusted by
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 11:14
I, for one, am disgusted by the choice to use Da Vinci's V-Man instead of a headless acephale with a machete in one hand and a girl dick in the other.
"To the extent that bodies are chaotic, how does ..."
What is this false premise doing on my beloved anews? PLEASE learn how to write logically.
"Topic of the Week - This won't be fully fleshed out (ha, did you see what i did there?)"
No? Nobody sees what you did there because you didn't do anything there.. Are you okay?
Anarchists are no more nor less prone to "dis-embodiment" than any other humans.
It all depends. Some
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 12:56
It all depends. Some anarchists, especially illegalists and primitivists, don't even use the Internet. So it's not all anarchists.
Yes, we're all agender here on the Internet in a way since it's all just a bunch of text on the screen. People here share their interests freely without shame, thus destroying distinctions between masculine and feminine interests. Which is beautiful, the Internet would suck (more) otherwise. But politics and philosophy shouldn't be seperated from our everyday life imho, otherwise you'll fall back into idealism, oversimplification and essentialism. In fact, everyday life should be prioritized, I keep seeing people arguing over dogmatism vs revisionism when it's a false dichotomy really, just form your own opinion based on your lived experience. Touching grass is important.
Beep
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 13:21
In reply to It all depends. Some by anon (not verified)
Beep
it is amusing how some
knar (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 13:51
it is amusing how some anarchists latch onto certain words and use them all the time. like the word chaos. chaos is only ever "good" to these anarchists. not that it is bad, (it is neither), chaos and order are not diametrically opposed though.
and i would say mind and body are not diametrically opposed either. nor are they separate. if there are disembodied anarchists in your area that means they are no longer alive, be wary.
Dost thou wield great
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 13:59
In reply to it is amusing how some by knar (not verified)
Dost thou wield great Stormbringer before us?
@ triviabot
knar (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 14:40
as an anarchist (I'm making an assumption) why does it matter to you at all what anyone else does with their own body?
This is their brain on drugs
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 21:14
In reply to @ triviabot by knar (not verified)
This is their brain on drugs
I mean, why tf is it any of
knar (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 22:10
In reply to This is their brain on drugs by anon (not verified)
I mean, why tf is it any of your business
Public forum, sweaty!!
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 22:49
In reply to I mean, why tf is it any of by knar (not verified)
Public forum, sweaty!!
I don't think you understand
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 22:35
In reply to @ triviabot by knar (not verified)
I don't think you understand what the OP's saying. They were talking more about how technology warps our perception of reality itself.
by OP do you mean trivial bot
knar (not verified) Tue, 10/08/2024 - 10:11
In reply to I don't think you understand by anon (not verified)
by OP do you mean trivial bot? i don't get that at all from what was posted.
To be clear, I'm more
triviabot (not verified) Tue, 10/08/2024 - 22:21
In reply to @ triviabot by knar (not verified)
To be clear, I'm more interested in the pursuit of total freedom than an exact definition of the particular righteousness of masking up at the Taco Bell or whatever. I'm super like, NOT into body-control and actually super into the individual freedom of bodies and stuff. If calling the under 25 masking fashion a trauma or fad or generational thing makes me lame, or a "pig" as another commenter chimed in (lol), then feel free. You still won't catch me policing anyone's body I'm just out here making observations.
To the point: do we want to fight the powers that be or not? Do we think masking in a grocery store is going to free Palestine? None of the cultural values in "western society" "on stolen land" etc are anywhere close to liberating us en masse. It's a tough beat we're in. All powers to uncompromising anti-authoritarian youth in the moment of crisis before them.
'Anarchists can not wear
anon (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 14:09
In reply to To be clear, I'm more by triviabot (not verified)
'Anarchists can not wear masks in a grocery stores because it will not free Palestine and is merely woke generational trauma but I don't want to control your bodies.' ~triviabot
you actually did make me
triviabot (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 16:34
In reply to 'Anarchists can not wear by anon (not verified)
you actually did make me laugh out loud with this, so we're finally having fun at least
tb, you are not merely
knar (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 20:17
In reply to To be clear, I'm more by triviabot (not verified)
tb, you are not merely "making observations". rather, you are interpreting bits of information you see, using criteria seemingly idiosyncratic to yourself.
for instance, how do you know under 25 year olds are "wearing masks all the time"? are you following under 25s around 24/7? you know, maybe that is why they mask, as a ward against your hostile vibe. maybe no one makes eye contact with you because you seem so unfriendly.
but for real, unless you have talked with each person you've seen wearing a mask, you can't know why they wear it, or anything else about them.
and, if you actually don't care what others do with their bodies, you wouldn't feel the need to comment on mask wearing at all.
The reason I brought up masks
triviabot (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 12:08
In reply to tb, you are not merely by knar (not verified)
The reason I brought up masks in the context of this topic of the week as it made me think of abstraction, as in, "damn that's a lot of abstraction going on with these masks". And as far as noticing generational changes it's just my anecdotal observation living in a city. You can rip in to me on whatever angle but I wasn't even getting that deep, especially for how personal these barbs are? As mentioned in a diff comment above, if the kid and friends calling me a boomer pig turn out to be super anarchists and the system crumbles to the youth, then great.
Is this trolliviabot? I
anon (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 13:49
In reply to The reason I brought up masks by triviabot (not verified)
Is this trolliviabot? I refuse to believe triviabot has become this.
The TOTW made me think of post-bookfair moist orgies but I didn't write a rant blaming the poor anarcho-kids for not utilizing the moist orgy as I believe they should be utilized nor accused them of performative anti-woke orgy misuse and snowflakery as per right-wing talking points.
More orgies! More masks! More moistness! Less boomers trying to shape the kids into their vision of whatever.
I used to think I was smart
trollivia botrigo (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 14:03
In reply to Is this trolliviabot? I by anon (not verified)
I used to think I was smart
But you made me look so naive
The way you sold me for parts
As you sunk your teeth into me, oh
Maskcucker, freedomfucker
Bleedin' me dry, like a goddamn woke generational traumatized radically correct dopamine snowflake
If you want more orgies you
anon (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 22:18
In reply to Is this trolliviabot? I by anon (not verified)
If you want more orgies you gotta quit making them invitation-only. Also if you want more masks you gotta make.them stylish and not unhealthy like these Covid masks (that btw provide.with poor anonymization if that's why you're wearing them).
Last Boomer "anarchist" seen trying to influence kids is Dr Norm Chumpsky, and he's one huge POS. All the rest are dead afaik, but not him. I hope you weren't promoting him?
Who said anything about "more
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 08:42
In reply to If you want more orgies you by anon (not verified)
Who said anything about "more"? Reading comprehension much? Anon 22:18 is displaying what's called a strawman argument, kids. OooOooh!
i get the desire to just be left alone (for real)
anonymous (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 12:29
In reply to tb, you are not merely by knar (not verified)
but there's another side to the "leave everyone alone" that cities promote and are good for. we do care what other people do. it does have an impact on what we think and feel, how we understand ourselves and each other.
that can be helpful and also really unhelpful (one motivation for a lot of people leaving small towns is the excessive attention and also limited examples of different options)... so all i'm really saying here is "just don't notice or have opinions about how other people do things" isn't really workable. maybe you can find a less knee-jerk request for the kind of attention (or lack thereof) that you're looking for.
also, yah, at least one anon is interpreting triviabot in a very nasty way. seems uncalled for. shrug.
shrug
anon (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 13:50
In reply to i get the desire to just be left alone (for real) by anonymous (not verified)
shrug
The way I see it, the OP's
anon (not verified) Wed, 10/09/2024 - 21:46
In reply to @ triviabot by knar (not verified)
The way I see it, the OP's post is cyberfeminist theory mixed up with Society of the Spectacle or something. It's essentially two topics shoehorned into one, um, Cybersociety of the Spectacle.
Ya kno what? Cybersociety of the Spectacle is a better name. Less confusing.
i agree with knar that
alex (not verified) Mon, 10/07/2024 - 18:51
i agree with knar that "disembodied" doesnt mean much to the living and i certainly dont see how it bears any relationship to abstraction as such. i think the kind of engagement with online material the prompt is gesturing towards is more like "out of body experience" which is to say the dream-like kind, the aspect of thinking which is specifically embodied in that it comes from us and is expressed through our experience without any discrete or easily communicable point of reference, and the ways we find to play with that. online spaces are good at facilitating that to the extent that, unlike a single-author text or, to a much lesser but still real extent a film, they dont need to approximate or simulate a multiplicity or multitude of perspectives; "bits" or not all the little writings and schizoposts are not characters derived from any discrete source but individual people doing that, for whatever reason. mileage will vary and all the critiques of the various powers and techs used to corral this are to be granted, but it's still the case i think that there is a vast degree of possibility continually being expressed and revealed in these supposedly intrinsically alienated terrains.
but i think all of that is another example of the ways that (some) people find strategic uses for enemy infrastructure, a process that is just as understandable as it is a losing proposition in the long run. my general sense of it is: get from it what you can, which means listen to whats going on, look for something you can work with, dont just run away at the first sign that maybe you arent welcome here; but dont count on it, and dont think that it isnt killing you, or eager to
love it when trolls get push
knar (not verified) Thu, 10/10/2024 - 14:04
love it when trolls get push back and all they can say for themselves is "I'm just joking" or "it isn't that deep" or they respond to something that was never said. (don't actually love it).
I enjoy living in my physical
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 00:24
I enjoy living in my physical body & keeping my mind in the present. I spend much of my time interacting with other beings on a physical level. I smell the ivy, blackberries, holly and morning glory I remove from trails (which is not my job, but do anyway) & feel the sweat that that exertion caused me when the wind picks up. I get cut up by those same holly and blackberries & the sting of pain brings me back to the present moment. My hands, right now, are still stinging from the nettles I brushed against earlier today while picking cyans & coccora. The odd maneuvering & puzzle solving I have to make around salmonberry & low growing vine maples, or through devils club, leaves its' mark in my musculature & holes in my clothes. The sounds of birdsong I hear when the animals realize I'm not really a danger or intruder they need to hide from relaxes me. When I get home & make dinner the taste of the coccora mushroom snaps me back to the present. I love the senses that the human animal has & dread the times in my life when I am forced to exist solely cerebrally. The pain, obstacles, noises, smells, tastes, temperature, morphologies & weather is, to me, the beautiful.
Based present moment enjoyer.
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 06:06
In reply to I enjoy living in my physical by anon (not verified)
Based present moment enjoyer.
When the big one hits or wild
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 08:48
In reply to I enjoy living in my physical by anon (not verified)
When the big one hits or wild fire season engulfs the entire West, you will remember this moments just before screaming.
wildfire is much more
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 08:56
In reply to When the big one hits or wild by anon (not verified)
wildfire is much more responsive to land management practices than media would make it seem. when ppl are thinning and using wood for they stoves they can tone down the top-burn risk. and even more so if some heroes are cultural-burning the undergrowth every few years despite forest service efforts.
Would "land management
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 09:08
In reply to wildfire is much more by anon (not verified)
Would "land management practices" therefore make it not wildfire? Civfire, IMO. Fuck that shit! Human intervention is why the fires be how they do. Leave it alone
lol it's called wild bc it's
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 19:01
In reply to Would "land management by anon (not verified)
lol it's called wild bc it's not in towns; there's no such thing as unmanaged land; whether it's ranged or farmed or logged, or fire suppressed. if you wanna ask for regular burning, the natives boosted the recurrence frequency by burning MORE often. so at least don't ask for a constructed ideal that doesn't exist. imo we're all civcucks atm.
"leave it alone" == john muir wilderness fantasies
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 21:24
In reply to Would "land management by anon (not verified)
In western north america, millions of acres burned every year prior to colonization and civilization, in part due to human intervention. The land John Muir looked upon and thought was a wilderness was tended with fire. And John Muir was a racist.
The reason fires be how they do is due to fire exclusion, namely:
1. Killing indigenous people that use fire.
2. Criminalizing indigenous people that use fire.
3. Suppressing lightning fires and other fires in the service of protecting timber interests.
4. Legislating against "light burning" that was also practiced by settlers.
5. Logging and other detrimental extractive processes.
6. Ideas of wilderness and viewing all disturbance in a negative light.
7. Further expansion of settlements into fire adapted landscapes
No. Project much?
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 21:51
In reply to "leave it alone" == john muir wilderness fantasies by anon (not verified)
No. Project much?
The original commenter here,
anon (not verified) Sat, 10/12/2024 - 01:24
In reply to No. Project much? by anon (not verified)
The original commenter here, & I can’t believe I have to say this but, please don’t turn forest fires or their encouragement as a tactic into your political (or anti political) project. At this stage large fires will destroy the necessary biodiversity required for the continued ecological niches that make up the ecosystems here in the northwest. The damage of fire prevention has already been played out & the crucial action now required is the expansion of biodiversity vis-à-vis charred mountain sides. I say this as someone who makes their yearly rent as a morel hunter!! Which for the uninformed means that I seek out burn sites because morels will flush out there
Aragorn! ( who you probably know is the guy who created this site) once talked shit on Derrick Jensen (and his magician eyes) in the same manner. Aragorn! also believed in the destruction of dams but took another route in advocating for their demise when he thought a fraction about the ecological toll that would take on the species who lived there
tended fires are more helpful
anonymous (not verified) Sat, 10/12/2024 - 07:57
In reply to The original commenter here, by anon (not verified)
tended fires are more helpful than no fires. need to know what you're doing.
just saying "no fire" is part of what got us here.
no need to halfassedly cite aragorn! as some mark of authenticity or appeal to authority or something.
Uttering "large fires" is
anon (not verified) Sat, 10/12/2024 - 08:10
In reply to The original commenter here, by anon (not verified)
Uttering "large fires" is sufficiently vague to continue the colonial project of starving fire adapted landscapes of the regenerative fire regimes they evolved with. As if there is a choice, "leave it alone" means catastrophic wild fires in this age of post logging fire suppression and climate change will undoubtedly occur. In this era of megafire, a military style response of fire suppression will take place with little consideration put to preserving biodiversity and nearly all effort put towards doing whatever it takes to preserve human life and property. So no, "the damage of fire prevention has already been played out" is inaccurate. It is alive and well. From retardant drops and bulldozers, to the labeling of cultural burning practitioners as arsonists. Many areas are in a fire drought since the 19th century. This is not to say burn everything everywhere with no consideration to severity and fire effects. That you assumed as much speaks to a common pyrophobia. There are ecological niches that can not flourish or finish their lifecycles without beneficial fire.
stop pulling those
buckwheat (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 08:50
In reply to I enjoy living in my physical by anon (not verified)
stop pulling those blackberries; food production is more important than constructed native/non-native status. the nonhumans will enjoy their berries too. it's a new world and we can participate in new stable ecosystem processes that produce more food for foragers, in fact that's almost an imperative if you don't want the hungry city dwellers coming and ravaging those native plant food sources when their grocery stores stop stocking chicken nuggets.
i too know what it's like to pretend i'm a deer and my standpoint in direct language is it's important to establish whatever seeds, legumes, root crops that will naturalize in an ecosystem without pushing out the existing residents--my favs so far are sunflower, beans, buckwheat, horseradish, potato, onions, garlic. ofc what can thrive is dependent on the habitat. also don't be afraid to tend to those trees/the forest service shouldn't have the only impact on the woods.
I don't know, I get what you
anon (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 11:29
In reply to stop pulling those by buckwheat (not verified)
I don't know, I get what you're saying, but there's enough Himalayan blackberries to go around & I alone will never be able to make a significant dent in their population. If I pull or cut them, it's usually in places where I'm trying to help other species who are being crowded out by them, in places where they're not yet firmly established. I'm not trying to play into the whole native/invasive dichotomy game too much, but there's still lots of sensitive native plants that I want to continue admiring & I do what I can to help them, even though I know it's a losing battle. Even if those plants are of no use to me as edibles or medicinals, I still enjoy them. As far as any of this concerns food, I enjoy the taste of thimbleberries way more than Himalayans even though they're daintier & have less yield, for me the subtlety of flavor outweighs how many calories it gives me (which brings this conversation back to corporeal living).
If anyone in this comment thread is interested in a critique of the native/invasive false dichotomy or the outcomes of fire suppression practices in western forests, I would recommend the book "The Mushroom at the End of the World" which uses the Matsutake mushroom as a way to explore these things.
thanks for the recc! i just
buckwheat (not verified) Fri, 10/11/2024 - 17:11
In reply to I don't know, I get what you by anon (not verified)
thanks for the recc! i just wanted to speak up for food and i don't make authoritative demands. ofc selective tending of the plants is your prerogative, and sometimes native>food in the habitat breakdown. it's not a safe bet to make general assumptions, but oftentimes having more species in the mix is way better for the ecological rigor/balance. and some species, like himalayan, can handle lots and lots of disturbance to balance themselves out with the other residents. :)
I get that. I unequivocally
anon (not verified) Sat, 10/12/2024 - 01:42
In reply to thanks for the recc! i just by buckwheat (not verified)
I get that. I unequivocally hate scotchbroom but it grows dominate in areas of disturbance & pollution. It holds massive amounts (comparatively) of heavy metals in its body. I know it’s absolutely terrible but I can admire it’s ability to act as a bioaccumulator. Again, I’m not interested in playing into the native/invasive false duality
You pretend primmies aren't
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/13/2024 - 19:07
In reply to stop pulling those by buckwheat (not verified)
You pretend primmies aren't even seeing the sheer absurdity of hordes of deer hanging around in and rural areas, when yuppies are thriving for organic meats and other healthy proteins at supermarkets and eco-markets. The Lauuu is forbidding people to hunt wild creatures for most of the year but at the same time promotes industrial animal exploitation on a massive scale. I mean have fun eating berries tho I ain't sure any human (not deer... as we're, you know, built different, duh) can survive on a regular basis on them.
Other thing I ain't sure about, tho, is I'd be able to kill a deer... so I'll stick to lifting good meats and sometimes scavenging road kills.
i'm not saying don't eat
buckwheat (not verified) Sun, 10/13/2024 - 21:03
In reply to You pretend primmies aren't by anon (not verified)
i'm not saying don't eat roadkill. the birds and deer enjoy fruits and berries too. they taste soo much better when they've been eating strong wild plants than weak garden or field crops. but there's room to tuck you in a productive set of staple plants into a glade or clearing without paying the rent. you'll die if you don't eat some fruits and veg and starches, i'll tell you that much.
"The pain, obstacles, noises,
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/13/2024 - 17:51
In reply to I enjoy living in my physical by anon (not verified)
"The pain, obstacles, noises, smells, tastes, temperature, morphologies & weather is, to me, the beautiful."
So is this all in the confines of an urban yard? There will be more pain in the wilderness when you encounter, whilst "manoeuvring", a mountain lion. And your aesthetic boundaries will expand when you experience never before aromas and tastes, when you go down on a homeless admirer.
I've seen a few mountain
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/13/2024 - 22:41
In reply to "The pain, obstacles, noises, by anon (not verified)
I've seen a few mountain lions, but they've all just stayed up in the trees. I get more stressed out by wasps, though. Not all wasps, mud dabbers & golden diggers are some of my favorite insects. What stresses me out in the woods sometimes is stepping on the wrong burrow. But there's an excitement in that stress that forces me to remain present, to be aware of my immediate surroundings, instead of in a safe nerfed apartment. But bringing it back to mountain lions or bears or whatever else scares you, I've thought about death a lot. I've dealt (& am still dealing) with acute depression & suicidal ideation for a lot of my life. Spending time in natural spaces is a relief from that, staying present in my body alleviates some of my anxiety & depression. But I have thought about how I'd like to die & I would rather go out becoming another's food than be hauled away to the morgue & either buried or cremated.
I have been homeless. I'm glad other people desired me & went down on me.
Well then I will go down on
anon (not verified) Mon, 10/14/2024 - 04:11
In reply to I've seen a few mountain by anon (not verified)
Well then I will go down on you with a defiant Stirnerian intensity because it was a bee which ended Max's resilient independence, and you are a survivor!
Embodiment theory
anon (not verified) Sat, 10/12/2024 - 08:59
I can’t recommend Merleau-Ponty enough. Phenomenology of Perception especially. Yes he’s a mid century Frenchie but his shit actually makes sense, I found his work a lot more rewarding than most of the similar authors I tried to get into. his approach is pretty original but opens on the universal.
Empty comment demonstrates
anon (not verified) Sun, 10/13/2024 - 22:01
In reply to Embodiment theory by anon (not verified)
Empty comment demonstrates zero knowledge of MMP.
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