In the old days we used to call up citizen tribunals to determine guilt or innocence. Or perhaps that was just in movies. I guess we don't know an awful lot about how truth is determined in this world but the news, and the nightly stories about the news seem to have decided that a lot of conjecture and politicking seems to be involved. It is unclear how much that is true but it sure seems to be true and that is more than half the battle.
We do know this. Something like 95% of cases do not go to trial. This is because most defendants are put into the terrible situation of being presented the evidence the prosecution will go to trial and told to compare that to the cost of defending against it. This balance is then weighed against years of life and thousands and tens of thousands of dollars. Evidence falls short to a kind of political reality. Same in mainstream (and radical) politics. Evidence is used to make an argument but not necessarily in open court. Evidence is used as a type of subterfuge against rules/power used as a different type of subterfuge. It seems exhausting.
In the old days, like some dusty cowboy movie, principles squared off on the main road through town. Today is seems a lot more like Lucy on the candy line. To what extent do you use evidence based reasoning in your anarchist politics? Do you agree that the way it has been ignored or avoided in mainstream consensus reality is a problem? How so?
Comments
“To what extent do you use
anon (not verified) Mon, 02/25/2019 - 07:36
“To what extent do you use evidence based reasoning in your anarchist politics?”
Evidence is a charged word, I do use observation based reasoning, and critical thinking, but I would not consider my scant means to always come up with something as definitive as evidence or proof. I use doubt far more often. The phrase “evidence/proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt” implies reasonable doubt is what would keep one from condemnation? Not refereing to plausible deniability in that instance, but that too has its use.
“Do you agree that the way it has been ignored or avoided in mainstream consensus reality is a problem? How so?”
Well, that’s the bread and butter of ideology and propaganda, and other forms of argumentation and story telling. Some verifiable observations are not represented in the media spectacle, actively downplayed in political rhetoric or academic discourse, while others are amplified, exaggerated, etc. All forms of lies, of which there are a freat variety, are useful to everyone who can pull them off. Some have a greater capacity for it, and vast means at their disposal toward thos ends.
"The phrase “evidence/proof
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 08:21
In reply to “To what extent do you use by anon (not verified)
"The phrase “evidence/proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt” implies reasonable doubt is what would keep one from condemnation?
Wait... are you dense? No it's due to concordance of evidence which places the accused as the only *possible* culprit. The problem is not with the rational process leading to this conclusion, but how the process is contaminated by interests, and how the pigs are allowed to fuck up the evidence, and using a magic wand to transform whatever bullshit into legit evidence.
The failure of this process in the legal system is due to the real dynamics of the courts, not merely to the flaws in the notion of "evidence, or even the way it is supposed to be combine. It is absurdly assumed in the democratic system that all parties on an equal ground yet they aren't. Judges can be elected, but that's all. They're performatively held as demi-gods. Cops neither have gotta pay lawyers out of their own pockets, unlike the accused randos, and won't have to reveal their home address in court. They don't even fucking pay parking space outside of court!
But even on fair ground, evidence is rarely easy to prove and put together. Accusing someone of sexual harassment is extremely hard to prove without a third party (or "ally"), no matter how the accusation is legit. Which is why it can lead to forgery with the aims of just excluding people we don't like.
i was being playful and
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 08:52
In reply to "The phrase “evidence/proof by anon (not verified)
i was being playful and careless with words, as if to show i didn’t take the premise seriously and that it bored me. the fault is on my side, i should have more things going on in my life
if you’re such a nerd, here’s
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 07:32
In reply to "The phrase “evidence/proof by anon (not verified)
if you’re such a nerd, here’s some homework:
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/04/02/ted-chiang-the-truth-of-fact-the…
http://digital.law.washington.edu/dspace-law/bitstream/handle/1773.1/18…
This is why events unnerve me
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 08:27
In reply to "The phrase “evidence/proof by anon (not verified)
They find it all, a different story
Dude this shit's
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 21:42
In reply to “To what extent do you use by anon (not verified)
B A N A N A S
LISTEN OR DON'T!!! I'VE GOT MORE GUNS
anon (not verified) Mon, 02/25/2019 - 09:12
THAN YOU AND MY GUNS ARE BIGGER THAN YOURS... THAT'S ALL THE EVIDENCE I NEED!!! GOT THAT BUBBA?
my wild dagger has
anon (not verified) Mon, 02/25/2019 - 09:23
In reply to LISTEN OR DON'T!!! I'VE GOT MORE GUNS by anon (not verified)
my wild dagger has momentarily gone limp and stab-shy
It's Going Dumb
anon (not verified) Mon, 02/25/2019 - 12:52
I often talk with my mouth full of sour dough bread. I have nothing better to do in life except write. and write. and write some more. Why haven't the authors of this site abandoned their keyboards and take aim at It's Going Down and every red site that claims anarchism.
I'm gonna guess it's because
anon (not verified) Mon, 02/25/2019 - 21:30
In reply to It's Going Dumb by anon (not verified)
I'm gonna guess it's because they have better things to do.
Jury Nullification, 24 by 7 News Cycle and Context
TiredOfPickingNames (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 04:16
In the OJ Trial there was a boatload of evidence. Yet the jury's feelings about societal policing nullified the evidence. Jury nullification is a potentially powerful tool that can upend evidence
To what extent do you use evidence based reasoning in your anarchist politics?
Evidence should be considered against a larger societal context as well as personal circumstances. Could be someone became a sex worker because it was one of the few opportunities available for their sex and socio-economic level
Do you agree that the way it has been ignored or avoided in mainstream consensus reality is a problem? How so?
24 by 7 news takes away any sense of context because there is only the self-important sense of immediacy. This allows spin , alternate facts, lies, and bs to take over. Rachel Maddowm Ben Swann and others regardless of tendancy do work on presenting evidence. But their voices are far and few between. And there are no public rewards for doing so.
Knowing all this, how can anarchists counter evidence when charged?
MONKEYWRENCHING THE LEGAL SYSTEM by Bob Black
SirEinzige Tue, 02/26/2019 - 05:39
In reply to Jury Nullification, 24 by 7 News Cycle and Context by TiredOfPickingNames (not verified)
http://www.spunk.org/texts/writers/black/sp001673.html
Jury Nullification is definitely an underutilized tactic and it would be greatly helped by having a more healthy baseline libertarian discourse(something I've gone on about for good reason). This is a more acute tactic that would go a longer way then more quantified diminishing return activism and elective struggle. Get to the inner sanctum of power, discourse and consciousness and do some sabotaging.
"Get to the inner sanctum of power"
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 08:01
In reply to MONKEYWRENCHING THE LEGAL SYSTEM by Bob Black by SirEinzige
No get us there, if it's so easy to you.
Hell put me on a jury
SirEinzige Tue, 02/26/2019 - 08:31
In reply to "Get to the inner sanctum of power" by anon (not verified)
I'll be the nullifier man at the outset.
Notice whom for wheels are turning
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 08:33
In reply to Jury Nullification, 24 by 7 News Cycle and Context by TiredOfPickingNames (not verified)
Turn again and turn towards this time
the court system is just a rigged game
critic_of_critics (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 05:57
evidence/no evidence matters little when prosecutors want to lock people in prison and the cops are either big enough bullies or sadistic enough to work for the justice system.
The court sets the rules for the game, and coming into contact with it means you lose. I got a ticket over the past year, and i realized that even in the case of "not guilty" everyone still has to pay a $70 court processing fee.
Paying someone to harrass me and waste my fucking time!
As far as me+evidence, i experience what i experience, and i don't experience what i don't experience, i can't base my actions on anything else. There's no point in trying to "prove anything" in this world.
it's also mainly just an
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 07:14
In reply to the court system is just a rigged game by critic_of_critics (not verified)
it's also mainly just an apparatus for taxing illicit market activity
that's what I was trying to
critic's_criti… (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 10:07
In reply to the court system is just a rigged game by critic_of_critics (not verified)
that's what I was trying to say as well! The Courts are nothing else than a forced scam. Evidence CAN be used to defend yourself, on paper, but most often that's just on paper, as it's just a pretense to paypaypay bullshit comedians in the shit theater of the Courts.
i don't have a politics
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 07:22
i don't have a politics (remember anti-politics.net, the loose precursor to this site?), and this legalistic totw makes it ever more obvious why @news is rarely if ever relevant to anarchist discourse. the continued watering down of anarchist thought that seems so prevalent in the totws is having a serious effect on who even browses this site anymore. too bad.
boo collective, yay worker!
(will this post stay up?)
anarchists being relevant to themselves first
critic_of_critics (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 08:02
In reply to i don't have a politics by anon (not verified)
that's the political end goal...there are still endless ways of fucking with the legal system, thanks to our more liberal ancestors...
never admit anything to a cop!
Write a totw that you find
rennet (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 09:41
In reply to i don't have a politics by anon (not verified)
Write a totw that you find relevant and submit it then
weird load ahead
Nettle (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 09:02
The framing here does rankle a bit, why so legalistic?
Still, the question seems to be, what constitutes evidence? Is what I see with my own eyes evidence? Can I trust the evidence of my senses? What about feelings? These are the types of questions we ask ourselves in relation to the outer world, otherwise how could we continue to exist. So we have to develop a relationship with the existant inside ourselves to be able to literally walk down the street.
We also have to be able to evaluate other people's accounts of their senses in order to even be able to communicate. If we are both looking at a purple cow but you insist it is a yellow rabbit we have a miscommunication at least and we have some work to do to either find consensus or determine we are at odds.
So evidence is not just a what it is a who. What is being given as evidence, who is giving this evidence?
So, yes, I use evidence based reasoning in my anarchy though what I call evidence is probably quite idiosyncratic.
I mean … as long as you're
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 11:14
In reply to weird load ahead by Nettle (not verified)
I mean … as long as you're carefully auditing your own thought processes like this, you're doing way better than most people already.
good answer, and a better
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 11:18
In reply to weird load ahead by Nettle (not verified)
good answer, and a better premise in itself
@Nettle
critic_of_critics (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 04:57
In reply to weird load ahead by Nettle (not verified)
the connection of the basic meaning of a word and the context it was used between how people "mean" to use it is something that doesn't appear to change very much. For example, "good" and "evil" are still pretty christian terms, and when you use them to refer to a person you're walking on a pretty slippery slope. I can't imagine using the word "evidence" in a seriously anti-state scenario. Authoritarianism depends on a huge deal of separation between conversing beings. Evidence comes into play when someone wants to launch an accusation.
Of course, there are slightly different ways to think of the word. For example, in academia and writing, the word "sources" is synonymous with evidence.
I guess another way of framing the topic could be, how can anarchists think of evidence in a different way than an alienated bureaucracy does? Does anything beyond a personal experience hold any water as evidence?
One advantage an anarchist might have over the "non-anarchist" is a complete indifference to facts and news media blips, where all evidence is
04:57
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 06:31
In reply to @Nettle by critic_of_critics (not verified)
"I guess another way of framing the topic could be, how can anarchists think of evidence in a different way than an alienated bureaucracy does? Does anything beyond a personal experience hold any water as evidence?"
indeed, these are the kinds of questions that make sense to me. rather than framing the topic in legalistic jargon.
a healthy skepticism of others' motivations is very useful, imo. so the first and foremost tools for "evidence" are my own observations, experiences, senses. however, it would not serve me very well to ONLY accept (as "evidence") that which has come to me through my own senses; i would spend far too much time "reinventing the wheel", so to speak. there are others whose motivations, experiences and observations i trust to varying degrees, and so when appropriate, i will consider theirs as a surrogate for my own.
"For example, "good" and
critic's_criti… (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:28
In reply to @Nettle by critic_of_critics (not verified)
"For example, "good" and "evil" are still pretty christian terms"
That's not an example but a received notion. Christianity was never formerly about this moral dichotomy, which instead came into predominance through later puritanism and the even worse Muhrican Protestant bigotry of more recent days. Good vs Evil is an historical artifact of Zoroastrians (pre-Xian) and Manicheans (who were was a gnostic sect, not Xians). There is no evidence (no pun intended) of any polarized notion of Evil in the gospels. There's only references to relativistic "evils", as in "misdeeds" or "pains" or "illness".
"Evidence comes into play when someone wants to launch an accusation."
Yes, and that also includes in contexts beyond the direct involvement of the State, like through the call-out culture. Hence, it is not a Statist notion, only one that has been used and more importantly misused and abused by statist despots.
"One advantage an anarchist might have over the "non-anarchist" is a complete indifference to facts and news media blips, where all evidence is"
Wtf am I reading. "Welcome to Anews, a compendium of trash over-conflations and other noxious semantic de-reconstructions based on pure circumstantial stereotypes!"
ikr?! By this logic, guess we
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:33
In reply to "For example, "good" and by critic's_criti… (not verified)
ikr?! By this logic, guess we'd better quit eating and breathing because those things are way too associated with stalin or the state or whatever. Well, good talk all, only have like 2 minutes of consciousness left so, guess I won't be seeing ya!
critics_critic...
critic_of_critics (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 16:30
In reply to "For example, "good" and by critic's_criti… (not verified)
that last part was an accident, it was a tangent i started in relation to the TOTW but didn't complete cuz i finished the other tangents and posted it. Can't edit comments when the username isn't registered.
you are a trash over conflation...OHHHHHH!!! Just deal with the fact that all the other humans deserve to breath the air less than you do.
Okay so to recap, perhaps if
critic's_criti… (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 18:10
In reply to critics_critic... by critic_of_critics (not verified)
Okay so to recap, perhaps if I accept the notion of evidence as being entirely a kinda tool of the State or at least being an authoritarian concept, then I can as well, through the same trick of semantic imputability, declare how using the Dasein concept makes anyone a Nazi...
Or I dare anyone explaining me -and that is related to this TOTW- HOW it the value of evidence an authoritarian notion at all. What makes it an exclusively statist tool, as opposed to just a key value within rational processes used to solve real-world problems. Even in autonomous collective trials it is being summoned, but deserves to be so even more due to its relative abandonment through the horrible call-out culture.
I'll reiterate that it can be used both for authoritarian and anti-(or counter-)authoritarian purposes, so it doesn't give it any specific political character. It is just a goddamn fucking process of logical validation, which follows empirical principles (there's your experience of alsome And yes that can be summoned to defend yourself against the State.... as it's being done very often in Courts! What part have I missed here?
Go to bed, you're drunk. You
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 19:00
In reply to Okay so to recap, perhaps if by critic's_criti… (not verified)
Go to bed, you're drunk. You're not making sense and are embarrassing yourself.
preferably
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 21:53
In reply to Go to bed, you're drunk. You by anon (not verified)
my bed ; )
alrighty!
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 22:05
In reply to preferably by anon (not verified)
jes PM me invitation card to your bed, plz
tfw they call you on your
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 22:52
In reply to alrighty! by anon (not verified)
tfw they call you on your sincere bluff, but there are no consequences because you’re both anons without registered accounts and therefore can’t PM each other, not to mention they might live in different hemispheres
All she asks is the strength to hold me
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 08:36
In reply to alrighty! by anon (not verified)
Then again the same old story
imma need some evidence to
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 20:40
In reply to Okay so to recap, perhaps if by critic's_criti… (not verified)
imma need some evidence to back those claims
i’d give your
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 21:48
In reply to weird load ahead by Nettle (not verified)
weird load a head
I've got facepalm whiplash
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 11:22
I've got facepalm whiplash from the comments that seem to think the concept of evidence based reasoning = the legal system. That's a bit like saying gravity has something to do with the legal system because all courtrooms have gravity.
something something
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 11:29
In reply to I've got facepalm whiplash by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
something something fasifiability Popper and truth pretention in science something Feyerabend GRAVITY!! DON’T MEAN TOO MUCH TO ME!!! I’M WHO I’VE GOT TO BE!!! THESE PIGS ARE AFTER ME, AFTER YOU!!!
i.e. just cuz ur right it don’t mean u can tell me wat 2 do
and I'll tell ya something
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 12:01
In reply to something something by anon (not verified)
and I'll tell ya something else too! THINK MORE HARDERER
does calling your vague and
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 12:50
In reply to and I'll tell ya something by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
does calling your vague and imprecise notions which constitute the concept of gravity a “law” help you feel better about yourself? without cosmolical laws there’s be chaos, anarchy in this universe!
hey, look at me! i’m some sort of determinist and mutilating myself and the world through systemstic thought is more important to me than any single breath i take!!
ps. i could agree with u, smarty pants nerd, but where’s the fun in that?
Oh so you typed all that just
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 16:50
In reply to does calling your vague and by anon (not verified)
Oh so you typed all that just to agree? Getting paid by the keystroke or something?
i wish. i’m a sad fuck, i’m
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 17:40
In reply to Oh so you typed all that just by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
i wish. i’m a sad fuck, i’m not ashamed to admit i troll to get sweet proxy for human interaction and amusement
11:22
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 06:36
In reply to I've got facepalm whiplash by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
"evidence based reasoning = the legal system"
interesting, i didn't see anyone say that.
anyways, wouldn't "evidence based reasoning" be equivalent to... logic? rationality? that is how i see it. and much like logic/rationality, i don't see that as the be-all, end-all of critical thinking. logic is just another tool in my toolbox. along with sensory inputs, intuition, desires, etc.
Then read the thread again
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:25
In reply to 11:22 by anon (not verified)
Then read the thread again and this time, factor in that I'm mocking these people, not quoting them.
tiredoldtroll..
critic's_criti… (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:32
In reply to I've got facepalm whiplash by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
So am I! The mediocrity levels of forceful semantic conflations have reached a new low in here. It's down there with mind-rape and cultist bullshit.
Evidence, like love, makes
Le Way (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 11:49
Evidence, like love, makes the world go around, and don't forget it!
I don't mean in the lover
Le Way (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 12:08
In reply to Evidence, like love, makes by Le Way (not verified)
I don't mean in the lover-dovey sense, I mean as serious currency.
: (
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 12:37
In reply to I don't mean in the lover by Le Way (not verified)
: (
Cop : Where were you last
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 13:00
In reply to : ( by anon (not verified)
Cop : Where were you last night at 8 pm?
Le Way : I was with my friend 12:37 at the cinema watching Tito and The Birds. Look, I have the 2 ticket stubs, its EVIDENCE!
"I don't mean in the lover
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 07:01
In reply to I don't mean in the lover by Le Way (not verified)
"I don't mean in the lover-dovey sense, I mean as serious currency."
holy shit! love as currency.... are you an ancap?
Its the first and oldest
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 13:45
In reply to "I don't mean in the lover by anon (not verified)
Its the first and oldest human occupation, even before food stalls. Its a natural organic and exchangable commodity, sex MAKES THE WORLD GO AROUND!
Remove your X-tian moral straightjacket and be real, this isn't a feminist Utopia or masculine empire, its just being yourself.
my bad, i didn't realize they
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 14:29
In reply to Its the first and oldest by anon (not verified)
my bad, i didn't realize they meant sex. i personally don't use the words love and sex interchangeably. z
Moral patriarchal icons fall
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 14:47
In reply to my bad, i didn't realize they by anon (not verified)
Moral patriarchal icons fall because sex was used as evidence.
Sex is a moral cleansing agent which topples patriarchy and authority. They try to hide it and use it for just their own exploitive means. They despise wild uninhibited creative energy, they bottle it up unside themselves and it grows to a cancer which they spread.
Reich discusses the function of sex in overthrowing authoritarianism. Use sex as evidence to expose the evil lords of authority!
Careful.. as you got quite a
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 16:06
In reply to Moral patriarchal icons fall by anon (not verified)
Careful.. as you got quite a few continental philosophers whose heads will roll in this Sex Inquisition. Starting with Sartre and Heidegger.
And that's the thing I like with the later po-mo marxist philosophers. That they totally understood Reich and had a culture of opening and communizing sexuality, instead of keeping it concealed to use it as a tool of power. This tradition has been lost on Western anarchos.
evidence < innuendo
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 21:54
In reply to Evidence, like love, makes by Le Way (not verified)
evidence < innuendo
anarchists love to be the cop
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 13:24
anarchists love to be the cop and the judge and the jury and the "Justice System" all while pretending they are for "abolishing" them all
most social, red and especially "american" anarchists want "anarchy" so they can tell people how to live because their anarchy has "Rules"
what a joke
Yep, and the rule now is that
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 14:49
In reply to anarchists love to be the cop by anon (not verified)
Yep, and the rule now is that once accused, you are guilty until proven innocent, and you'll be half-ostracized even after being exonerated.
Doxxing, mobbing, deplatforming, "muh lived experience" that doesn't need to be justified and can't be countermanded - a good portion of self-described anarchists these days are halfway on their way to Stalinism.
show me some evidence. prove
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 14:52
In reply to Yep, and the rule now is that by anon (not verified)
show me some evidence. prove it.
Yeah, you got any membership
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 15:00
In reply to show me some evidence. prove by anon (not verified)
Yeah, you got any membership badges to the Stalin Club dude?
no, the exact amount of
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 15:12
In reply to Yeah, you got any membership by anon (not verified)
no, the exact amount of badges in my possession is zero
"Anarchists love to be the
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 16:55
In reply to no, the exact amount of by anon (not verified)
"Anarchists love to be the cop, the judge, the jury etc."
Yes ... You're describing how autonomy works, good job! If we disagree too strongly, out comes the armed desires! Welcome to anarchy. How bout those implications amirite?!
got em! hi five.
anon (not verified) Tue, 02/26/2019 - 17:42
In reply to "Anarchists love to be the by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
got em! hi five.
Hummms... Looks like you
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 16:26
In reply to "Anarchists love to be the by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
Hummms... Looks like you haven't been doing a lot of self-crit this week, Comrade Tiredoldtroll. Gotta keep up, or else you're next on our call-out list.
You know what's even sadder
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 16:38
In reply to Hummms... Looks like you by anon (not verified)
You know what's even sadder than whiny SJWs? Their victims, also whining about how a bunch of whiners apparently got the best of them in almost exclusively verbal conflict!
Oh noes! I've been unfairly ostracized!
OH I’LL BREAK THEM DOWN
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 08:39
In reply to anarchists love to be the cop by anon (not verified)
NO MERCY SHOWN
HEAVEN KNOWS IT’S GOT TO BE THIS TIME
my boy doug has words of
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 06:58
my boy doug has words of wisdom, as usual:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-HLNotKZpg
here's another bit of comedy that
critic_of_critics (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 07:14
In reply to my boy doug has words of by anon (not verified)
me and my friends were watching recently. A long, realistic, comedic trial where the state tries to convict tim heidecker of ruining peoples lives with poisonous vape pens!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YWJcqISKJQ
this appeals to me but it’s
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 07:50
In reply to here's another bit of comedy that by critic_of_critics (not verified)
this appeals to me but it’s too long, which is part of the appeal, but i can’t commit
its good to watch for going to sleep
critic_of_critics (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 08:46
In reply to this appeals to me but it’s by anon (not verified)
i have watching the whole thing on my to-do list. It would be an interesting TOTW to talk about the binary of entertainment and work, a lot of the challenging things that anarchists read feels like watching that video. I tried reading anti-oedipus once and the authors (is it one or two people?) just include way too many new terms and taxes my imagination.
how do you separate (or not)
mu (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 07:58
how do you separate (or not) your "evidence-based anarchist reasoning" from the very not-anarchist Dawkins/Harris/etc "new athiest" shit show?
perhaps not attaching one's self to a term with so much shitty baggage is a good idea.
there are organizations now adays
critic_of_critics (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 10:43
In reply to how do you separate (or not) by mu (not verified)
that use the "new atheist" model for legal disputes in a way that's similar to what the westboro baptist church does, one is found here https://thesatanictemple.com
is this approach any bit superior to the westboro baptist church? is it any better than the anarchists' DIY justice systems and accountability processes.
so many tr00f warriors!
What can I say? No-one will
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:16
In reply to there are organizations now adays by critic_of_critics (not verified)
What can I say? No-one will think for you except you. You should belligerently threaten anyone who offers to think for you because they're THE ENEMY. I came to this realization using basic reasoning. Highly recommended!
it goes like this:
mu (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:22
In reply to What can I say? No-one will by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
it goes like this:
according to [our measure] most [bad things] are conducted by [bad people] therefore eliminate [bad people] and [bad things] will stop! because evidence!
Maybe the shitty baggage is
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:00
In reply to how do you separate (or not) by mu (not verified)
Maybe the shitty baggage is partly due to your own shit-jacketing? "Evidence" has always been a rather unpolitical notion... it's as much ideologically-charged as mathematics or maybe contraception, which means little next to zero. But now you're making it a conduct of White supremacy, or whatever other antagonistic political attribute?
But let's to back to basics... do you really understand what that means to be chastizing the reliance upon evidence in your life? You get rid of this value, then what comes next... judgements and rationales based on pure thin air, on one-sided beliefs and "ressentiment" suddenly become relatable, because the underlying pragmatic process of reasoning and validation has been abolished. So anything goes, right? From mundane call-outs all the way to the Spanish Inquisition... with totalitarianism in-between...
And all of this was due to your personal disdain of figures like Dawkins, Peterson and Harris, who themselves aren't anywhere near the best examples of rationalists and pragmatists, but rather obvious ideologues and opportunists of a New Right.
Examine your own stance, mu. I see some issues in here.
Peterson as a "rationalist",
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:12
In reply to Maybe the shitty baggage is by anon (not verified)
Peterson as a "rationalist", ha! Good one. I mean, why? Because he describes himself that way? thx for the lol
"(...Peterson...) aren't
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 14:24
In reply to Peterson as a "rationalist", by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
"(...Peterson...) aren't anywhere near the best examples of rationalists"
I'm pretty sure I wrote this... and no that doesn't mean I consider them to be rationalists.
Yep! Was agreeing with you.
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 15:36
In reply to "(...Peterson...) aren't by anon (not verified)
Yep! Was agreeing with you.
"But now you're making it a
mu (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:15
In reply to Maybe the shitty baggage is by anon (not verified)
"But now you're making it a conduct of White supremacy, or whatever other antagonistic political attribute?"
the hilarious thing here is that i never mentioned "White supremacy" in my "shit-jacketing" yet your immediately jump to this because, in fact, there is indeed shitty baggage associated with the term "evidence based." you have proven my point.
everything else you said is irrelevant to the question posed and is instead just your rushing to the defense of these "new athiests" that you see as being "shit-jacketed," even though you've acknowledged by this defense that your jacket is indeed made of shit.
what does this say about your shitty baggage? i wonder.
Nobody here is a "new atheist
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:22
In reply to "But now you're making it a by mu (not verified)
Nobody here is a "new atheist", ya weirdo. You've got youtube trauma, that's fine but quit projecting.
I was only suggesting that independent, critical thought and evidence have been known to have healthy relationships and are generally better than most other options available for decision making. This probably shouldn't be controversial unless one is addicted to internet debate.
I mean, even saying "anarchist reasoning" is fucking weird. I'm an anarchist and I frequently reason but never once did it occur to me to try and craft an identity from this. You might need to detox from cyberspace or something haha
again, you have failed. i do
mu (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:40
In reply to Nobody here is a "new atheist by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
again, you have failed. i do not watch youtube. i don't know what "youtube trauma" is but i'm certain i do not have it. neither am i "projecting" by pointing out EVIDENCE that the term "evidence based" is a loaded term that you yourself have demonstrated. additionally, nowhere was i writing against critical thinking. instead of thinking what i might need to detox from (it's interactions with idiots, not "cyberspace") you may want to work on your reading comprehension, tiredoldtroll.
really!? You encountered
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:54
In reply to again, you have failed. i do by mu (not verified)
really!? You encountered Peterson and Harris in print form? Hope you didn't pay for the books. My reading comprehension is fine, your sense of humour seems a bit lacking though. "evidence based" isn't loaded enough to warrant all this hand wringing, agree to disagree. You're painting far too broadly for my taste.
hey old troll
critic_of_critics (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 11:47
In reply to Nobody here is a "new atheist by tiredoldtroll (not verified)
isn't internal debate what the internet is all about? I gave up trying to internet detox a while ago, even though it's generally a good idea, a mass society internet detox is pretty much equivalent to anti-civ terrorism which is why its going to take a while to happen, and probably won't be done by humans.
I guess I lean towards it
tiredoldtroll (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 12:09
In reply to hey old troll by critic_of_critics (not verified)
I guess I lean towards it being military coms tech that got repurposed for masturbation, intellectual or otherwise. Occasionally, I still learns things or else I wouldn't keep coming back to @news. You're right of course. Plus it occurs to me that I'm being unfair to mu since Dawkins was commodifying controversy long before youtube existed.
I guess before anyone could use social media to sell controversy, it was a side business for folks in academia.
they can be clearly
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 21:58
In reply to how do you separate (or not) by mu (not verified)
they can be clearly distinguished by the amount of sex appeal, dispropportionately in favor of the anarchists
just look at them, it’s e v i d e n t
Why anarchy?
GO3 Wed, 02/27/2019 - 14:55
Me! Some evidence would be nice. Anarchists go to extremes for social justice, there is plenty of evidence for that. There have been some noteworthy experiments in communal living. This website is evidence of communication and cooperation. The ocean is just an idea until you have seen it, walked in the sand, swam in its waters.
I used to watch Perry Mason
GO3 Wed, 02/27/2019 - 17:13
In reply to Why anarchy? by GO3
and became something of a legal eagle. I know the rules of evidence are introduced by the state. You are presumed innocent until proven guilty, you have a right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Don't talk to police and a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. The day in and day out hubbub about Trump is boring, I've been waiting for a bombshell but now an insider is spilling his guts and its almost worth watching.
This seems like a good place
anon (not verified) Wed, 02/27/2019 - 18:11
This seems like a good place to say that the dumbass troll who has never been to DC but appeared here talking shit about a 28,000-word Crimethinc analysis of the J20 demonstration is a good example of how evidence or even minimum rational thinking has nothing to do with a lot of the garbage that gets spewed here.
This is like a remedial class
GO3 Wed, 02/27/2019 - 19:32
In reply to This seems like a good place by anon (not verified)
and we're like the sweathogs which I can appreciate because I'm a high school dropout. I can understand being miffed about a lame criticism of a project that people put their heart and soul into and I'm glad you chimed in because you made a good point. I was born on this day in 1969 and I pity the fool who talks trash on this website.
y i k e s
notnull Wed, 02/27/2019 - 21:35
y i k e s
WTF is this GOD guy's
anon (not verified) Thu, 02/28/2019 - 10:12
WTF is this GOD guy's comments get removed? The GOD OF EVIDENCE thing was pretty funny for a few seconds...
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