Note to podcast talkers: You don't need to read the whole thing on the podcast. You're free to do a cold open.

Last week we talked about relations without measure.
This week we’re counting heads and rationing provisions according to need.

Oppression is glaring when it kills,
as well as when it deprives, restricts, and controls others’ livelihood.
Commonly recognized needs are air, water, food, clothing, and shelter.
Some are quick to add sanitation, education, and healthcare,
after which even transportation and communication are added.

Framed as consumption of products and services necessary for vital physiological processes,
production, distribution, and access to said resources becomes central to the discussion.
In a stratified society, specialized work is tied to subsistence.
Higher status is linked to greater access to resources that aid in survival and reproduction.

Can a minority that profits as renters and employers via private ownership of the means of production
be supplanted by a common ownership of property, and an egalitarian mode of production and distribution
ensuring the greatest freedom and well-being for everyone, rather than only the wealthy and powerful?
A revolution is necessary to put such a scheme in place.

Current capitalist regimes, whether democracies or not,
claim to provide the basis for the subsistence of their population.
Some avowedly campaign to eradicate poverty and precariousness within and across its borders,
through various policies like economic development and foreign aid.
Such rhetoric focuses on subsistence, rather than fairness or equality.
On needs, rather than emancipation.

Depriving someone of their freedom
while providing meager subsistence
is widely accepted, or at least tolerated,
in the form of prisons and wage labor.

Anarchists risk life and livelihood when they live freely and attack oppressive institutions.
Anarchist prisoners have leveraged hunger strikes to assert their dignity,
exercising their freedom within the confines of restrictive environments.

What is the relation of needs and anarchism? How do anarchists satisfy their needs keeping in mind the principles of freedom and equality? Is freedom a need? If so, Is it a basic need or a premium need? Is it a luxury? Is a hierarchy of needs justified? Does freedom and self-actualization only come after your basic needs are met?
Is it a byproduct of having all your needs met? Or is it an inherent capability, modified by intrinsic and extrinsic factors,
that allows you to choose the degree by which you are governed by necessity, and be creative in the way you prioritize, satisfy, and ignore -even neglect- your needs, and that of others?

Listen to the conversation here!

Comments

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/02/2024 - 17:05

Can a minority that profits as renters and employers via private ownership of the means of production
be supplanted by a common ownership of property, and an egalitarian mode of production and distribution
ensuring the greatest freedom and well-being for everyone, rather than only the wealthy and powerful?
A revolution is necessary to put such a scheme in place.

This is wholly accurate. Collective social struggles with a transparently clear goal of anti-capitalist social revolution - the abolition of wage labor, commodity production and the state - are exactly what's needed now, especially under the increasingly advantageous circumstances provided by the fact that the United States is circling the drain.

Anarchists risk life and livelihood when they live freely and attack oppressive institutions.

"...when they live freely..."

Hmmmm. This sounds like you are saying that you are a threat to the social order based on lifestyle choices you make. Is this the author's intention?

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/02/2024 - 18:00

industrial society sees the living world as resources, instead of a relationship with the land that is more like a communion, an enmeshed ecosystem of mutual aid. in such a way, the relationship to land can be the basis of freedom, hence the old slogan “land and freedom”

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/02/2024 - 19:46

unbridled freedom without equality isn’t anarchism, since a free-for-all in which the mighty rule over the weak is what we have now. anarchism is no rulers and no hierarchies, not the freedom to amass and hoard wealth at the expense of others while others starve

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 16:21

In reply to by anon (not verified)

"anarchy means no rulers - it doesn't mean no rules"

so are rules made by God, and not living and breathing rulers? If you make a rule, then you are a ruler.

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/02/2024 - 20:01

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Aaah, this socialist got possessed by the ghost of Hobbes! Who we gonna call? Spooksbuster!

Brain-helper 4 u.... if it's a free-for-all there's no rule of the mighty over the "weak". You went on confusing free-dom with power (that you are really into). A free-dom for all means there's no consolidation of power, over any domain. If there's no notion of land property then there's no bandit that can claim being the landlord.

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/02/2024 - 21:08

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Do the moderators think that obvious unanarchist trolling is useful in some way? Do we have to keep repeating the same basic things over and over each time an authoritarian claims their vision of authoritarianism is the real anarchy?

No dumpster poutines for you, 20:01. You're drunk.

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/02/2024 - 21:21

In reply to by anon (not verified)

This is exactly the demand for an online safe space used by venerable subculture pedant L.J., of "black churches should be burned, too" infamy, during an exchange about the Jan. 6th Mook-a-Palooza/Slobberdammerung at the U.S. Capitol building on libcom.org. "This should be an online safe space! We can't marshal a militant and persuasive argument! We bruise easy!" Come out, come out, wherever you are...

And how is quoting Kropotkin "obvious unanarchist trolling" "authoritarian" and "authoritarianism"? Sounds like a certain special someone hasn't heard of this guy Kropotkin before.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 07:54

In reply to by anon (not verified)

If there's anything authoritarian, it's keyboard popes deciding what/who is anarchist/unanarchist based on zero arguments, coz they didn't like a divergence of opinion about convictions they can't question.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 08:21

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Tbh, there's no authoritarian subtext in what you are responding to. Even if this person is a secret authoritarian, it's not there so examine yourself.

Although the "free-dom" is extremely annoying and reminds me of the words libertarians make up.

Otherwise, what this person said is pretty basic anarchy 101.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 16:25

In reply to by anon (not verified)

with egalitarian anarchism, because private property is basically a lie, and to lie in order to transfer capital into your wallet doesn't threaten capitalism in any way, not does it subvert any of the unsavory aspects of capitalism.

However, i'm equally bothered by this notion that someone getting what they want right away should be impeded by notions of "the revolution" or "anarchist morality", etc.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 08:26

In reply to by anon (not verified)

A glorious workers revolution where everyone unites and sings Kumbaya? No. And this is why inclusive leftist is as dumb as any authoritarian ideology.

But over a short course of time I believe you'll see (and are seeing) further coalescing in specific areas of nations and over a longer term scale Paris Commune uprisings some that might last awhile.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 11:45

In reply to by anon (not verified)

is a pretty bad example of anarchistic revolution. A short-sighted movement of poors that got manipulated by Leftist despots... down to getting massacred by nationalist troops. Over 150 years later and some tuffboi Left radicals still didn't get the memo, that fleeing or tricking vastly-superior enemies, when outgunned and outnumbered, isn't being a "class traitor" but just fighting for your lives.

P.S. that rollover pic should have been of a broken record, instead.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 16:39

In reply to by anon (not verified)

You are reading way too much into this. I said "look like," basically just cities or areas of cities becoming ungovernable or far less governable. I'm not saying it "should" be the Paris Commune. I definitely didnt say i advocate stupid tactical decisions.

Accusing someone of things you read into text is the tactics of social justice libs.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 08:06

In reply to by anon (not verified)

The claim that an anarchist social Revolution that destroys the state and abolishes capitalism is impossible or undesirable and that the only tenable anti authoritarian position is the Insurrection detached from the concept of the revolution is quite literally Bourgeois ideology repackaged as nihilist liberal nonsense. Sporadic uprisings that challenge the social order but do not destroy it and which reconstitute the cultural and psychological foundations of the rebels is actually Jeffersonian democracy. I'm not just being coy. Thomas Jefferson literally advocated for bloody and violent insurrections to take place every decade or so.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 08:13

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Right I don't disagree with you but you're sitting here imagining that this "social revolution" has to develop within some pre determined set of national borders like a bizarre nationalist.

I'm telling you that it's not gonna happen. How you gather that I'm saying there will be anything other than localized uprisings with anarchistic qualities is the same social justice lib shit the guy I was responding to came at me with.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 12:22

In reply to by anon (not verified)

You misunderstood. I am calling you a liberal. Your belief in the immortality of control and the inability of human beings to take control of their social reality is liberalism dressed in radical chic. Many such instances

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 14:55

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Yet again you do it. You social justice libs cannot listen to a simple statement and understand something thats new. It's such college class brain rot.

It's a strawman you create sure but it's deeper in your brain than that. I don't believe you can conceptualize anything someone else says without "study"

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 16:58

In reply to by anon (not verified)

To 16:42

Much of what's voiced here does. The adolescent shopping mall cynicism about the concept of social revolution, for instance. And the conflation of the historically specific exploitative and inequitable features of capitalism with the unavoidable disappointments that come with being mortal and alive.

GEF (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 09:19

In reply to by anon (not verified)

It's funny that I wrote my first essay for a social revolution (to be published in a journal for NEEEEEFAAAC, lol) while working at the shopping mall. The very-collectivist social environment along with its air of condensed socio-economic confluence made it not too contradictory... As a matter of fact, the shopping mall model was invented by a socialist, Victor Gruen, after WW2 and inspired by the infamous Le Corbusier.

But you may be the one -another one among millions- conflating society with nature. I ain't.

Nature is the truest anarchy there is. Socialism just like capitalism are but socio-economic abominations formed in the guise of seeking to emulate nature, only at a mass level. Emulation of nature through *civilization* is a common historic trait, especially with these two systems. What anarchy is proposing is a rejection of both... not for a Third Way, or an Old Way, but for the Wei Wu Wei.

Theory for a social organization better be heard among the songs of birds, insects and mammals. Mostly-vile human despots have enjoyed more than enough attention. In the end, they rarely provide with much understanding.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 14:58

In reply to by GEF (not verified)

You are wasting words on someone who will not understand them. You need simple twitter length statements that already confirm what their radlib friends say in their gender studies class.

GO3 Sun, 06/09/2024 - 15:24

In reply to by anon (not verified)

I used to work in the food court at the mall but quit without notice because I was too young and feral for a full time job. This is it! Any speculation about the future is philo-fiction but hey what's your fantasy?

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 07:06

In reply to by Buff Historio (not verified)

“He who is not satisfied with a little, is satisfied with nothing.” - Epicurus

According to the opinion of Epicurus, the highest happiness is attained in that condition which is called the "Pleasure of Rest" -- in freedom from all pain or unpleasant feeling -- in a word, in the condition of painlessness .

Essentially, Epicurus concluded that the three most important factors constituting a happy life were:

Friends.
Freedom.
Analyzed Life.

Providing Committee (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 07:31

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Comrade, we will put you in a waiting list for a state-appointed friend. Freedom? We’re all working toward that, comrade. As for analysis, the immortal science of Marxism has you covered!

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 08:07

people aren’t just needy receptacles of aid, they are active agents, crafty creatures that compete (as well as collaborate) and seek advantage, striving to improve their circumstances. they aren’t helpless victims waiting to be rescued by communism, they are co-creators of the unfair and unequal world we live in

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 11:40

"A glorious workers revolution where everyone unites and sings Kumbaya?" All the loyal products of the United States of 'Murika diss this in exactly these terms. Better stick to playdates with fellow slumming children of the upper middle class.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 12:00

Most of the responses here are the usual, U.S. anarchism is the dandruff of US consumer society stuff, and a measure of the fact that this scene can't generate anything that can make a different in the larger world around us.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 12:40

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Do not worry, brow. Beneath the surface we are organizing the Active Military Men and Woman of the United States Armed Forces to Make America Great Again with the best real anarchist revolution that will spread to the larger world around us beneath our feet for our tribes!

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 15:09

In reply to by anon (not verified)

You get the rotten tomatoes you looked for when pushing a Red flag on an anarchist site along with a TOTW that's so generic revleft recycled material than it makes me question if you're serious at all, brooooow.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 15:27

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Nothing to say -- and no words to say it with. You'll be more eloquent and inspired if you spend less time huffing solvent.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 18:00

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Gosh, since when has Keating taken over as a mod? First off you post commie imagery and then you complain that anyone asking the question on why serving the revolution may be a capitalist shill...

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 18:56

Note the use of the word "commie," beloved of USA right-wing assholes and the turds they excrete. Servile and stupid 'Murikans can't tell the difference bet. Marxism and Stalinism.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 19:29

We true anarchs have transended physiological based needs, all we need is a spontaneous human response delivered without censure or prohibition. Thecollective take note!

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/03/2024 - 19:55

My NEED... is to become an immortal so not only I can become really good at assemblies and nonprofit bureaucracy skillz, but also can start seriously believe in the prole revolution with a straight face, coz I can now pretend to care for what'll MAYBE happen in a few generations from now (assuming humanity's still around or hasn't been brought under the full control of an AI). Yah.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 04:26

I tend to want to comment immediately!

"Oppression is glaring when it kills,
as well as when it deprives, restricts, and controls others’ livelihood."

LOL, that's why it's called oppression! People say "the oppressive air" because the air has this quality of bearing down, making it hard to go about, doing what you do.

I do think capitalism is oppressive: there is classism and social darwinism, but that's equally as oppressive as the counting and splitting up of "resources", which is also implied by egalitarian systems.

The impersonal nature of partially-soc neo liberal capitalism is why nothing has replaced it to scale. Stirner said "the boog want an impersonal leader". People like it when they can pretend they are masters of their fate. This way, nobody has to care when someone complains, and when the abuse becomes untense, you can write a book or a rap song.

GEF (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 08:38

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Agreeing here.... especially with the last paragraph.

Anarchism definitely is not equalitaria (even if not opposed to equity), but radically libertarian. In the way that the only method to ensure "to everyone according to their own needs" be fulfilled is to be having a really-free society where you can get what you need without some external managerial instance setting the parameters, excluding from direct *jouissance* and therefore setting the bars to access it.

Otherwise, in order to ensure equality you'll need a nomenklatura to set up a mass-rationing of goods, which will be only another form of enforced scarcity (as in the Soviet Union). But even if better managed than the USSR, with a more.accomodating model for everyone, there's still the managerial trap... where bureaucracies are formed under the pretext of making everyone happy. What could go wrong?

Or instead would you like a full AI takeover of economies like we might be seeing occuring sooner than later? That still would be an oppressive hyper-controlling society.

So, equality vs freedom might just be the most defining line between socialism and anarchism. Each principle has its pitfalls, yet managerial oppressive systems aren't part of the latter.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 08:54

In reply to by GEF (not verified)

This notion of anarchism never escapes the ideology of the alienated individual and attendant illusions of freedom, which is a hallmark of people who are products of the United States and its cognitive pathologies, and -- to emphasize this -- who aren't in any way committed radicals; the world is perceived as revolving around them as atomized beings.

Anarchism that is worth anything in liberatory terms is also fully communist. Ask Kropotkin, Goldman, Berkman, the Magonistas, the Makhnovists, the Durutti Column.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 10:15

In reply to by anon (not verified)

> Anarchism that is worth anything in liberatory terms is also fully communist.

Haha FECK OFF, tankie. I bet you're the OP here, and benefited from *your own* entitlement to this site so you can put on a Red flag on an anarchist site and get some unruly comments remove (i.e. goalposts moved) for you. So much dick power!

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 09:46

In reply to by comrade (not verified)

Again, we get a conventional right-wing, from the pages of Buckley era 'National Review' take on this.

The capitalist mode of production has created the abundant material preconditions for a world-wide immediate leap to a post-market society. There will be many imperfections in this process -- alas, life isn't perfect. Abolishing poverty, exploitation and bringing a relatively small number of rampant criminal psychopaths to account for their crimes will be well worth any inconveniences resulting from this. In the words of Robespierre and Tyler Durden, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 10:36

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Yes, we need more *legitimate authorities*, that can ensure a JUST and equal redistribution of wealth. Either this, or it's Ayn Rand. As you can see, the whole world in fact is a Right vs Left dichotomy. Some races of birds are radical libcoms, while some others are Right-wingers. Same for insects... and many mammals...

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 10:44

The more juvenile, right-wing type responses here are as always completely abstract, and clearly not a product of previous efforts by their authors to assert what they claim to be about in the larger world outside.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 12:21

Ward’s ‘anarchist approach’ to housing is defined in opposition to the ‘High Modernism’ of post-war British housing policy and to the associated managerialist approach which sees housing as a good which the state, local or central, will provide to or for the people, drawing on the insights of planning and architectural experts. In a 1974 open letter to Tony Crosland, the then Labour Minister for Housing, Ward characterizes this perspective acidly as follows: ‘You ... see the homeless, the ill-housed and overcrowded and the newly-weds just coming up for membership of the Housing Shortage Club, as the inert objects, the raw material of policy, waiting to be processed by the Housing Problems Industry’. Ward is not against collectivism in the sense of public support, but, reacting against the modernist architects and planners—‘the dreadful and expensive saga of the tower block era’—he does affirm the principle of ‘dweller’s control’: the people should be enabled to house themselves, not be housed by authorities.

Ward’s commitment to the idea of dweller control manifests itself, firstly, in his sympathy for squatting movements. Ward’s early anarchist journalism covered the squatters’ movement which emerged in Britain in the late 1940s. The squatting movement of the late 1960s also drew his supportive commentary. In Ward’s view, squatting is a constructive form of direct action to meet social needs, one which works to improve not only the prospects of those who squat, but the housing situation as a whole: ‘The real crime, and perhaps the real achievement of the squatters’ movement, is that it has called the bluff of those who believe in political action. The squatters have shown that they can rehabilitate housing more quickly and more effectively than the official system can’. Taking the direct action approach further, Ward has written widely on the history of popular self-build, episodes in which poor people have achieved title to cheap land, or squatted it, and have then gradually built on the land (sometimes to the consternation of local planners or those of supposedly more refined aesthetic tastes). He has also supported contemporary efforts at urban self-build and has written on the architecture of self-build. Taking this approach a step further, Ward floated in the 1970s the idea of the ‘Do-it-Yourself New Town’ in which a planning body locates a site and organizes the provision of basic services such as power and sewerage, but then allows people to come and, within some parameters, build for themselves.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/stuart-white-making-anarchism-r…

american mink (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 19:34

What is the relation of needs and anarchism?
Anarchy is a fluid, creative, and sometimes collaborative approach to meeting human needs. As opposed to rigid and dominating approaches to meeting needs. Of course, some ppl who call themselves anarchists are hella rigid and dogmatic but they are annoying and I'm not counting them.

How do anarchists satisfy their needs keeping in mind the principles of freedom and equality?
Weird question. Everyone and every place is so different. I don't think there's one anarchist way to do this.

Is freedom a need?
Duh

If so, Is it a basic need or a premium need?
This distinction is pointless. What even is a "basic" need versus a "premium" one? Something you will physically die without like food or water? Life is miserable without freedom, or dignity, or creativity. Without them, I shrivel and die inside. No matter how you want to rank needs, the outcome of going with them unmet is usually pretty much the same: feels really bad. I say might as well treat them all as important.

Is it a luxury?
Insane

Is a hierarchy of needs justified?
Your mom's justified

Does freedom and self-actualization only come after your basic needs are met?
Okay Mazlow didn't realize it was the 1940s

Is it a byproduct of having all your needs met?
I'm over answering these questions. I thought I had more stamina right now, oops

Or is it an inherent capability, modified by intrinsic and extrinsic factors, that allows you to choose the degree by which you are governed by necessity, and be creative in the way you prioritize, satisfy, and ignore -even neglect- your needs, and that of others?

alex (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 19:53

this prompt seems designed to trick people into the kind of ideological posturing going on in many of the comments, specifically by holding up two models of social organization each couched in the language of meeting people's needs as abstractions, then obliquely critiquing the idea that needs can or should be thought of in that way.

if that was the intention, well done. i more or less agree that freedom is "an inherent capability, modified by intrinsic and extrinsic factors, that allows you to choose the degree by which you are governed by necessity, and be creative in the way you prioritize, satisfy, and ignore -even neglect- your needs, and that of others." this means to me that neither "needs" nor "freedom" are the kinds of things that can be neatly theorized or quantified as part of a general social "scheme" for distributive justice. they describe important aspects of one's experience within any given context, under any kind of constraint. the idea for me anyway is not to solve or maximally satisfy them across any given population but to change the way that we perceive them, again as suggested by the prompt, as "necessities," so that we can become more "creative" about changing the ways we relate to ourselves, the non-human world, other people, other places. too easy otherwise to become trapped by the idea that we need the institutions, forces, modes of being and so on that seem to be responsible for producing the things that we need to survive or find comfort, on that basis, and so the only thing thats really wrong with them is that they're not done to our liking, or under our direction, or that other people are just not savvy enough to have gotten their little bubble of autonomy from it all. all positions which more or less passively demand the reproduction of those conditions.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 21:24

"What is the relation of needs and anarchism? "
In dystopian 2024, Anarchism needs relations!

Why do we waste our lives reading and commenting on these TOTWs? We could be gardening or having wild sex all day and night in our gardens or throwing our dynamite strapped bodies into the machinery of our enemies! Instead a little Anews and routine pooping before crying ourselves to sleep why?

Hold me closer, tiny dancers.

anon (not verified) Tue, 06/04/2024 - 21:40

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Such is the blue jeans, James Dean, Coca-Cola, US of A attitude typical of the subcultural playpen of dweebs that passes for a radical milieu that calls itself anarchism, but it’s only liberal consumerist individualism, not any credible opposition to capitalism that is respected by friends and foe alike.

anon (not verified) Thu, 06/06/2024 - 10:40

In reply to by anon (not verified)

21:40

That's not a bad Keating impersonation, although the syntax of the last eight words needs tightening.

anon (not verified) Thu, 06/06/2024 - 10:53

In reply to by anon (not verified)

We know you mean to say "the last fourteen words", brah. Don't be coy.

anon (not verified) Wed, 06/05/2024 - 08:54

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Gardening is a boring, psychotic activity that's also inherently civilized and civilizing. That, at least for the people in charge of the garden or the owners.

Hunther-gatherer the best lyfe, as it's as close as you can get from the open randomness (i.e. freedom) of the natural universe. Any life way that attaches you to the ground means servitude and captivity.

Gardenarchist (not verified) Wed, 06/05/2024 - 09:04

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Nobody "owns" a garden. They can also be as chaotic and wild and borderless as the heart of a true anarch. Gatherers are welcome. Hunters and the opposition of hunter-think is why we Garden-Anarchists came to be. Oppose your authoritarian programming!

We Gardenarchist are the enemy of authoritarian men but never of the wild: not of fireflies, words, gardens, streams, or the West wind!

anon (not verified) Thu, 06/06/2024 - 18:00

In reply to by Gardenarchist (not verified)

lmao, wtf are you talking about? Gardens are 100% the opposite of the wild (and that's ok). They require fencing (so that deers and bears don't fuck with it). They require CONSTANT human intervention.. so that the weeds don't choke out the plants you're actually trying to cultivate.

Stop treating "anarchy" or "anarchist" like it's some kind of sriracha sauce that you're just hellbent on dousing over everything.

Consider cultivating hobbies/interests that are outside of your political activism. If I took a look at your bookshelf, and it's like 99.99% political/non-fiction/theory or wtv, -- that's super unhealthy.

anon (not verified) Thu, 06/06/2024 - 19:03

In reply to by anon (not verified)

True and thanks for elaborating on my former comment two steps above you. Gardening is civ as it is enforcing a cultural bubble-space that is mostly disconnected from the (possible) natural habitats around.

I was involved in a collective garden project for a while, by a beautiful river with some forests around, and it all came down to be treating wild animals like "pests" to repel, as some of the gardeners were introducing a plethora of imported plants... Like fucking leave nature alone damnit. Nothing wrong with wild city gardening tho.

> Stop treating "anarchy" or "anarchist" like it's some kind of sriracha sauce that you're just hellbent on dousing over everything

I'd be shouting that to sooo many liberal anarchoids. Sounds so dumb to be using that word at every two sentences while at the student coffee shop.

anon (not verified) Thu, 06/06/2024 - 20:35

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Both of you anti-garden dinguses need to do even the most basic search on: natural farming, do nothing farming, wild gardening, forest gardening, then go upstairs and punch your mother in the face for allowing you to exist.

anon (not verified) Thu, 06/06/2024 - 22:11

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Did you just assume their gender? On an anarchist site?? Shame on you. Sounds like you might benefit from contemplating what you've done while wild gardening.

anon (not verified) Fri, 06/07/2024 - 08:08

In reply to by anon (not verified)

I don't see where the CRIIIIME of misgendering some unknown maggot online is any worse than allowing them to promote physical violence on women, tryin to make it look edgy and "funny"...

Only some puerile desensitized jerk would do that. Regardless their assumed gender.

anon (not verified) Fri, 06/07/2024 - 10:59

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Not only are you are misgendering the anon you're also asserting that all mothers are women... and you're claiming to care about women and invoking "CRIIIIME"? OoOookay, brow.

I think you could benefit from enrolling in a little anarchy101 school along with AT LEAST ONE wild gardening class to better manage your misinformed and misdirected anger issues.

This is an anarchist website.

anon (not verified) Sat, 06/08/2024 - 12:00

In reply to by anon (not verified)

flinging shit at everyone (thecollective deleted that entire flame war when i talked about how funny the "psychotic gardener" caricature was), the gender of people they hate don't actually matter: to them, everyone who doesn't agree with them is a bitch and random strangers are idiots.

When are anarchists going to relearn that setting and format does matter? Every once in a while, they whine about "entryists", but i can't think of anything more entryist than some totally anonymous chat space online ROFLMAO

If you want to actually have a less alienated relation to the existent, then garden. If you want to do the exact opposite, spend your life on the internet. See how far that gets 'em. These same haters on here love to bitch about women and mothers because it sets you up to be the "id-pol" when you cry misogyny.

anon (not verified) Sat, 06/08/2024 - 18:58

In reply to by anon (not verified)

So the choices for a living are:

1- spending too much time on the internet

2- do gardening, which is the only lesser-alienated relation to the existent (clearly you got no fucking clue about the meaning of the Existent so you reveal yourself to be that Far Right troll who's been lurking here for far too long, hence #1).

You fucking literally promoted violence on mothers... You fucking did, out of nowhere, for absolutely no other reason than you being a maggot who needs to get a life.

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/09/2024 - 06:32

In reply to by anon (not verified)

you fucks can get derailed from talking seeds by one little sentence of insults. it doesn't matter if they're a fed or a troll or simply a person making fun of you bc of difference. you went from discussing garden technique and critique to trying to ad hominem them back. who made any of yall the arbiters of healthy internet time management? if you just wanna shit the shit and argue with organizacionalists, fine, but don't pretend to be better then them, or here for any more pragmatic reasons, when you respond right in to their hands with sanctimonious indignation.

insults are part of rhetoric, and rhetoric is holding you back. and if you want to have timespace to talk about gardens you can't get shook like this, no one cares how you judge the elusive semi-troll.

anon (not verified) Mon, 06/10/2024 - 12:24

In reply to by anon (not verified)

"you fucks can get derailed"

Okay ???

Is this somehow suggesting that "we" are getting railed and that getting "derailed" would be a bad thing? I mean, if it's consensual railing then I guess that would be a let down but IDK, brah, you should work on your retorts if you want to present as a based force of anti-wild-gardening nature!

Gardenarchist (not verified) Sat, 06/08/2024 - 22:16

In reply to by anon (not verified)

For the record, 12:00 was not me nor any of the totally kewl pro-wild-garden anons above that spent the past few days owning the anti-vegetable crybaby who things all mothers are women and that gardening is misogynist because hunter-gatherer reasons! But I must admit that I am impressed with their trolling by pretending to be me or / pro-garden anons above. This is unhinged tech-addiciton at its best, brahs. Kudos, 12:00. This is your peak!

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/09/2024 - 08:01

In reply to by anon (not verified)

this is confused thinking, at best.

you say – "Hunther-gatherer the best lyfe, as it's as close as you can get from the open randomness (i.e. freedom) of the natural universe. Any life way that attaches you to the ground means servitude and captivity."

Gatherer-hunter peoples are attached to the land, air & water. i don't see how you could think otherwise. being in relationship to land is the most basic freedom, but too many are confused as to what freedom means. do the thought experiment; how free are you with land? and how free are you without land?

Indigenous, First Peoples, Aboriginal peoples - all such live in relationship to land air water. Some may also garden, or otherwise be custodial with the earth, there are many ways to be free & this involves being in right relationship to land air water.

For those of us living in boxes with no access to land gardens are a start towards rekindling right relationship to land. the only place to start is where one is. for many of us this means a few pots of plants on a porch.

Food, clothing & shelter come from the land, the Earth. That is about as basic as it gets.

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/09/2024 - 09:13

In reply to by anon (not verified)

Stopped reading at: "Gatherer-hunter peoples are attached to the land, air & water."

Where did I say the opposite!? You clearly are making things up in your mind...

"Food, clothing & shelter come from the land, the Earth."

Duh, NO IT'S NOT TRUUUUE! They come from your mom.

Tho do they HAVE to come from an industry, especially agriculture? Northern natives of Turtle Island were making themselves rain jackets outta animal guts (deer, I think), and these were known to last for decades.

anon (not verified) Sun, 06/09/2024 - 07:04

in the breadbook, kropotkin is more trying to overcome people’s initial knee-jerk opposition to expropriation, assuaging them, telling them it’ll be alright, they’ll figure it out as they go, it won’t be that bad, rather than providing a specific blueprint as to how things should be.

Add new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.

Filtered HTML

  • Web page addresses and email addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a href hreflang> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul type> <ol start type> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
CAPTCHA
u
p
M
P
@
!
%
i
Enter the code without spaces.
This question is for testing whether or not you are a human visitor and to prevent automated spam submissions.