In the Hot Summer™ of 2020 a group of us sat down to discuss After the Crest, a series of pieces meditating on what happens the morning after the riot.
In the end, it isn’t just organizations with contact lists that will remain after the crest, but above all new questions, new practices, new points of reference for how people can stand up for themselves. Passing these memories along to the next generation is one of the most important things we can do.
The authors featured here are troubled by repetition without progress. Older anarchists get stuck on certain tactics. People with experience leave the scene, and younger people (in age or experience) repeat the same mistakes. Nothing builds up, the tide just rolls in, crests, and pulls back, and this is why I’m writing this prompt instead of building the new world in the ashes of the old.
How do you navigate repetition? Do you attempt to avoid it or just try to do things better next time? Do you throw yourself into things because you never know, maybe it will be different this time? Do you stand back and let kids stick forks in outlets because they have to learn somehow and they’re not gonna listen anyway? Could it be that you even welcome the loss of memory because they free us from the diminished horizons of the old, and existence is in fact just a shifting tide which we can’t hope but be carried along by?
(also cf. Uses of a Whirlwind, that treats the same subject from a red-and-black perspective)
Comments
Sometimes repetition blurs
anon (not verified) Sun, 04/30/2023 - 11:53
Sometimes repetition blurs into a drone that lulls you into a haze as life passes by. You zone out and, when you come to, it catches you off guard. Not because it’s novel, but you stopped paying attention and lost the plot.
There are many predictable life cycles, but just because you know what’s coming, doesn’t mean you can necessarily get ahead of yourself. Maybe you’re always behind, just catching up.
If there’s a rhythm and a tempo to repetition, are you on time? Are you playing in the pocket, or leaning to far back, or pushing ahead of the beat, or dancing to the beat of your own drum.
You could always play a half-beat breakdown or play a solo in double time to the same tempo and chord progression, just doodle chromatic lines with confidence. Nothing new, but anything that makes playing the same set list each night seem fresh.
But there’s also pressure to please the crowd, they don’t want you changing those hits, they want you to “do the thing” each time, it’s what they came to see. So you play your part, until it becomes too much. You either change your set list, put those songs off rotation for a while, or even quit that band or go on hiatus and form a new one.
Kids are all virtousos nowadays, they come up with stuff like you’ve never heard before. But some of them also play the old stuff because they think it’s cool. Everyone that sticks to a genre is aware it’s been done to death, but it’s a staple in your diet. Variety is the spice of life, but I don’t need to add a different spice to my drinking water each time, I just need it to quench my thirst and hit the spot.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. In software sometimes “worse is better”.
honestly, im sick of pretending like i am
anon (not verified) Sun, 04/30/2023 - 15:09
wise or smart. I do feel like i have to pretend to be smart because when people chew you out or punish you because of "something bad you did", you also get the wonderful opportunity of hearing some advice or wisdom you already heard before: i fucking hate that.
HOWEVER, i am not giving a nod to youth or rebelliousness like some folks here will imagine. I just want to say that theres a certain aspect of nature that is repetitive, and it's better to learn to enjoy that. You see, it's the ad people and con men who want you to believe in solutions...and yeah, we're all susceptible to con games, i do get tired of tje people who think they arent.
so let me get this straight,
lumpy (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 07:21
In reply to honestly, im sick of pretending like i am by anon (not verified)
so let me get this straight, you pretend to be smart while getting advice you don't take and hate hearing... then go back to "doing something bad" anyway. THEN to top it off, you feel superior to anyone who ever got "conned" in to a belief in solutions?
damn anon ... don't suppose you can afford therapy?
While I hate the idea of
anon (not verified) Sun, 04/30/2023 - 21:42
While I hate the idea of "reaching out to the masses", you gotta admit if no one's making any effort to spread a beautiful idea to the newer generations, this idea's just going to end up down the memory hole of History. On the other hand, talking (or even postering) to TikTok kids about Elisée Reclus and co feels like the oddest thing to do. So "repetition" ain't quite the crux of the matter; where it's more about communication. Some old anarchists are still using the same old tactic and narrative, being like still isolates within a world that keeps moving on, likely because that's maybe the thing that is the surest to them... But that's just the byproduct of having a poor analysis of how to reach out to people.
This TOTW should rather be called "reaching out".
You’re reacting to the TOTW
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 06:26
In reply to While I hate the idea of by anon (not verified)
You’re reacting to the TOTW you wish you had gotten instead? This topic says nothing about reaching out to the masses.
I think this hypothesis of spreading anarchy via transmission and communication ends up being more like a game of telephone. Maybe if people shut up about it it’ll spring from their hearts if they listen to it yearning to rebel against the existent, instead of stupefying themselves by looking at screens.
I'm reacting to the core
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 08:20
In reply to You’re reacting to the TOTW by anon (not verified)
I'm reacting to the core subject of this TOTW, which isn't about "repetition", that appears as a mere corollary issue. Feel free to ramble about "repetition" as you'd like, but the salient question is the topic of reaching out (to younger people especially), as it's not only due to repetition that younger crowds are connecting less with anarchist ideas. This bares no potential fruitful answer as to why some kids see shit social media as some kind of rebellious youth thing.
clarification
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 08:22
In reply to I'm reacting to the core by anon (not verified)
The issue of "repetition" is what "bares no fruitful answer...".
older people repeat
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 11:06
In reply to I'm reacting to the core by anon (not verified)
older people repeat themselves plenty. for example, the regulars on this forum. it's okay to put in a lot of yourself into your interpretation, projecting on the topic or using it as a mirror. it's valid.
If P is the answer to Q and B
Nihilist+Logician (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 12:28
In reply to older people repeat by anon (not verified)
If P is the answer to Q and B is endlessly asking about P, then A, being a good faith conversationalist, would have no other answer for B than P.
Just because A is older than B and/or B is too dumb to accept the true answer to Q does not make P an invalid answer.
Now go X some Y.
if anything, it’s younger
anon (not verified) Wed, 05/03/2023 - 18:25
In reply to I'm reacting to the core by anon (not verified)
if anything, it’s younger people who should reach out to older people. in many countries there are more old people, than young. wouldn’t make sense for the old and tired to reach out to “fellow kids”, trying to sound hip. if enthusiastic energetic young activist organizers want to reach out to the masses, they should cater to the old.
I don't know if I agree but I
lettuceleafer Mon, 05/01/2023 - 15:36
In reply to You’re reacting to the TOTW by anon (not verified)
I don't know if I agree but I love this comment
we’re stuck on this level
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 06:29
we’re stuck on this level until we defeat the final boss and there’s no respawns
How do you navigate
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 06:49
How do you navigate repetition?
It’s not just repetition, it’s iteration and differentiation.
There’s marginal improvements, sometimes big breakthroughs, and always decay and deterioration.
Some things are worth trying a second and third time to make sure it was not a fluke, but no need to bash your head against a wall.
I remember getting sunburnt at useless student assemblies and protests. Now I tell the kids, if you want to get sunburnt, go to the beach instead. Those involved will declare a strike and a march anyways, so strike ahead anyways, even if they don’t.
We can’t help being swept by changing tides, but memory is important to remind people the way things were different, since sometimes history rhymes, it might come back around again. You might sound like a broken record and not be appreciated, and saying “I told you so” is not much consolation. But sometimes there’s no other way to shake off the dejavu than to tell em how you’ve seen this go down before.
beneath the pavement, under
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 07:28
In reply to How do you navigate by anon (not verified)
beneath the pavement, under the useless student assembly... the beach!
Beneath Anews, anarchy!
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 10:04
In reply to beneath the pavement, under by anon (not verified)
Beneath Anews, anarchy!
here's your problem
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 10:07
"The authors featured here are troubled by repetition without progress. "
progress, you're talking about progress??
it only looks like a circle because perspective obscures the spiral.
What does something look like
Nihilist+Genius (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 10:27
In reply to here's your problem by anon (not verified)
What does something look like without a perspective? How does one look without having a perspective?
I think the commenter implies
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 11:01
In reply to What does something look like by Nihilist+Genius (not verified)
I think the commenter implies that the author's specific perspective only sees circles where there may be also spirals.
As for me, I only care about curves... *sexy jazz music playing*
there's a moment! right after
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 11:16
In reply to What does something look like by Nihilist+Genius (not verified)
there's a moment! right after the DMT hits, where your vision turns to fractals and then blows apart in to like, a hyper dimensional wormhole that you're traveling at great speed? it's where the elves live! they show you things and then WHAM you're back from narnia, realizing that you soiled yourself with considerable dread and joy!
I have seen them. I have been
Nihilist+Genius (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 12:31
In reply to there's a moment! right after by anon (not verified)
I have seen them. I have been guided through Nibiru and returned with a message of desolation.
Well of course, you are a
anon (not verified) Mon, 05/01/2023 - 18:51
In reply to I have seen them. I have been by Nihilist+Genius (not verified)
Well of course, you are a nihilist genius, all messages are desolate!
My disagreement is what I am
lettuceleafer Mon, 05/01/2023 - 15:43
My disagreement is what I am imaging to be the model of what anarchy is.
I'm critical of the idea entirely that u do things with fixed expectations of societal change. Society isn't a control board where u flip a switch and get a fixed response. It's complicated as fuck and kinda out of an individual's control so I just do stuff.
Societal change in my opinion is like a campfire. Influenced by sparks and fuel. Sure a riot might not due stuff but sometimes it sparks skem fuel and society changes. But often sparks don't hit shit so people criticize the sparks. But like it's all about fuel and the conditions it happens. So if u light sparks all the time whenever conditions are good it will errupt. So even if X tactics did nothing in the OPs opinion is may due something at a later date.
And my criticism is not at the method of sparks but of trying to think on how to make life conductive to ignite. Which often is stuff kinda out of an individual's control suck as the economy, cultural ideas, poverty, ethnic conflict, government infighting, conflict over democracy vs a great leader, desperation of populace or small groups and thousands of other factors.
So I disagree with the premise of the question. As the model it seems based of of is flawed imo.
it's honestly kind of sad that anarchists
anon (not verified) Tue, 05/02/2023 - 14:09
Feel so heavily invested in political activism, haven't we already established that we cant change the world, and (taking a cue from wolfi landstreicher, i miss him, honestly) maybe there isn't a world to change?
You may not be able to change
anon (not verified) Tue, 05/02/2023 - 18:38
In reply to it's honestly kind of sad that anarchists by anon (not verified)
You may not be able to change the world but you can change your world, Karen.
Why do you miss Wolfi, honestly? If there isn't a world to change maybe there's no Wolfi to miss either?
that's funny, i find the
lumpy (not verified) Wed, 05/03/2023 - 08:50
In reply to it's honestly kind of sad that anarchists by anon (not verified)
that's funny, i find the exact opposite to be quite sad!
not that the word "activism" is redeemable, it's basically just a slur from law enforcement but anarchists who confuse their passivity and alienation for a political position are functionally doing law enforcement's job for them as well.
it's a bit of a catch 22 in terms of rhetoric but in real life, there's plenty of stuff worth doing that isn't necessarily activism.
stuff worth doing
anon (not verified) Wed, 05/03/2023 - 10:46
In reply to that's funny, i find the by lumpy (not verified)
yeah, passivity and alienation are not anarchist. i attend a daily zumba class, i stay physically active and socially engaged.
that's quite a lot of zumba
lumpy (not verified) Wed, 05/03/2023 - 12:21
In reply to stuff worth doing by anon (not verified)
that's quite a lot of zumba but you wouldn't lie to me, would you anon?... WOULD YOU?!
IDK
anon (not verified) Sat, 05/06/2023 - 23:25
Anarchism always goes from the small local roots below, and grows upwards. Or it used to. An alternative is maybe antisocial top-down anarchism, using cryptography to eradicate the possibility of censorship, and enable leaking of sensitive information from government agencies, militaries, and so on. Telecomix was born before wikileaks (it is now dead but successors followed).
How to handle the tides and the repetition? Try something new that has not been attempted before.
Anarchism also depends on the people wanting to be anarchists. You can not force anyone to become an anarchist. Humanity needs to grow up, we as a species are still in the cradle. This Is Okay. We can wait. Don't force it.
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