TOTW: Socialization

  • Posted on: 18 September 2017
  • By: thecollective

Six years ago on September 17th, the Occupy moment began. Occupy was perhaps a high water mark for the North American anarchist space, although the anarchist idea and practice of occupation on different levels goes back much further. Occupy, assemblies, gatherings, meetings, etc provide anarchists with the face-to-face (f2f) social experiences and opportunity to learn a(n anarchist) culture and survive.

What is your preferred anarchist gathering? Is this a public or private invite only meetup? Where are we meeting, in the urban space or somewhere more rural out in the woods? Will the meetup be more ideologically focused or more open ended? Anarchists have popularized the book fair event, but what can we imagine outside of such a space?

See also, an older related TOTW:
“Conferences, gatherings, and meetings”



Let's start this shit all over again, like it never happened. The time is right! Wall Street still un-raided! MIC CHECK!

*snorts another line*


Occupy was riddled with cops, dood.

Anything with the smallest potential to be more than just subcultural scene bullshit is going to draw the piggers, what's your point? Don't leave the house because the big bad world is out there?

My point was about your stupid fucking moralizing about whoever makes a joke on the (poentially coke-induced) insanity of Occupy being a cop. Most Occupies were 100% cop-friendly events and were also deeply infiltrated if not managed by the popo, dumbo.

2 things: I'm not the same person you were originally talking to and subcultural scenes are usually too pathetic for the cops to justify spending serious amounts of money on.

That's usually what it comes down to is justifying their budgets. Anyway, you don't seem very bright so don't trouble yourself with these things sweetheart ;)

Hence why you got the occasional rioting and smashy-smashy that doesn't accomplish much, AND also why the so-called anarchists never care much about real-life anarchy and mutual aid. That does it for the justification of budgets.

1- set up a phony "threat" for public order, or capitalist interests
2- grab the old crowd of anar-cops out of the closet and get them rolling
3- broken windows
4- ???
5- Profit!

Just a theory.

Of course I ain't referring to cities where being punk rock is a subversive thing, or tea house anarchism, or the super-lame platformism that still endures. More like those well-known hotspots of "anarchism".

It's not really a conspiracy though, more a natural consequence of dense population centres and capitalism. But the part where the piggies rationalize their paycheques is pure cynical exploitation of moderate paranoia regarding threats to the social peace.

The anarchist tendency is just a tiny current within the normal social tensions that's become partially self-aware and the cops will point at it and exaggerate its capacity to do anything.

All of which is to say, most of this isn't part of some grand strategy. That's just Alex Jones style nonsense.

Social control is a thing, you tool. It's not a conspiracy but at the same time it is. We also call it "politics".

I know what social control is asshole, as it so happens, I'm a paid mercenary in that line of work. I've also been one of the kids in the black bloc many times so I know both sides of this equation.

But the previous post was confusing social ruptures with the efforts to control them in a typical conspiracy-themed narrative (Alex jones style) that's basically just paranoid, shitty analysis. So in conclusion, eat my shit ;)

You're not even having a conversation fool, just typing screeds at me.

I know my history, all about cointelpro, etc. My point here is that not all social tensions and ruptures are engineered by "provocateurs". The "smashy smashy" isn't a stage play put on by Soros or whatever alt-right garbage you believe.

If you've been on the front lines, you know the difference between the actual threats and the paranoid fantasies of the people who sit on the sidelines and consume youtube videos about chemtrails and reptilian overlords.

...are a way cool sci-fi concept when assumed as realistic pop literature. Many conspiracy theorists have been actually developing a new kind of fiction writing, but even though it has known some success and found a readership for it, it still became a shitty and stinky echo chamber where nobody wants to go at this point. Or maybe some sad, lonely suburban derelicts. But it did make a memorable sci-fi TV series back in the '80s, called "V".

Anyways not sure who you're replying to, but the comment cascade devolved from the potentiality that cops may be causing some occasional or more regular social tension at small scale in order to justify city financing, which doesn't sound that alien or even far-fetched. It may be also supported by intel agencies for deeper strategic purposes of social control. Btw I think you can still get a paid job in the military as a fake insurgent for training sessions, without needing to go through the service, engagement and all the mess... but that's for their training for foreign war theaters.

Heheh yeah and I'm suggesting that sort of "theory" is 3rd-rate YouTube video garbage that gets pooped out by armchair pundits every time the black bloc makes a solid showing. I've been in the thick of this several times, knew all the players, knew who the undercovers were and it's just not how this stuff actually works.

That sort of theory has 2 fallacies, it's negating the agency of the genuine militants who are willing to take risks and be combative AND it gives undue credit to the Machiavellian schemes of the state, partially buying in to the myth of its invincibility.

But the levels of occasional "insurrectionnist" activity I was referring to doesn't really apply to "take risks and be combative". Smashing windows or spray-painting in the night when you're a gang of resourceful people who can start out a prisoner support campaign the moment that one gets arrested isn't exactly the grandest bravery I could think of.

But that's nowhere compared to the actual bravery of building radical mutual aid in the daily life.

Late night petty vandalism isn't supposed to be the bravest thing you've ever seen. Better to think of it as a way for new people to cut their teeth and push their comfort levels a bit.

This is ridiculous
Comment on a website like thats gonna change anithing
We need to act make a stand the goverments of the already think they own everithyng

You're screaming in to the void, turn off the computer if you want to "do something".

but the computer is where all muh encrypted message come through
it's kinda like a metaphysical portal into the electronic dreaming dimension where epigenetic intuition influences all our relations you know and i mean who wouldn't want that?!!!
so dream on, dreamers! and keep blogging you crazy troll it all bastards!
i'm going for a walk now ! something is definitely afoot. i have a feeling it's time.
k, bye

Walking is technically something I guess?

I'm sure you're right but let's ask Emile for confirmation on this...

anarchist gathering of choice: the good old fashioned temporary autonomous zone (TAZ).

Unfortunately "hakim bey" isn't a very reputable source but he only gave a catchy name to an ancient idea. In the modern context; any combative crowd that gets to a size where it can't be easily dispersed by the forces of order in the urban terrain is a TAZ.

The remote wilderness is also a TAZ because of the associated cost of enforcement over long distances, which explains the trajectory of the illegal rave and party scenes before they get co-opted in to the typical, profit-driven music festivals.

The TAZ teaches lots of valuable lessons about the limits of physical force and the true nature of politics and conflict ... And it's my favourite place to make new friends and run in to old ones I haven't seen in too long! :)

He and Bob Black are easily the best thing post-1968 anarchism ever produced.

Yeah yeah yeah, I'd say get off his dick but you're way too old for him Ziggy.

For some reason, you jokers always want to separate the ideas from the mere mortals (with their many faults) that named them. I disagree that this is important.

Besides, like I already mentioned, the TAZ is such a powerful idea because he didn't invent anything IMO. He only named a very old thing, something essential to the human condition.

If I'm right, then there's presumably been many different names for it, stretching back through history. A puzzle piece of the beautiful idea.

as i tried to share in a comment that thecollective removed, the lamarckian and darwinian models of evolution differ in that the lamarckian model sees epigenetic inductive influence (negative causality) as the primary animator while the darwinian model sees genetic influence (positive causality) as the primary animator.

'Occupy' as a TAZ, is akin to stressed people committing themselves to a psychiatric asylum (tent city full of crazies), thus lifting off the stresses of 'normal life' in the cold, sterility of the authoritarian grid. within the non-judgemental, open acceptance, mutual aid and empathy of this 'psychiatric asylum', the 'patient' feels 'natural' again ['natural' should not be confused for 'normal'] and has no desire to be 'restored to normality'. this 'cure' doesn't last because when returned to the situations they had 'taken a break from', their dis-ease returns. the mutual aid, open acceptance and empathy is gone and its absence is once again 'a deficiency' that is the source of their illness.

an art psychotherapist i have observed 'in action' uses watercolours, pre-covering white paintboards with skyblue watercolour and giving psychiatric patients cotton swabs to 'remove' some blue and so produce, in a 'negative space' sense, beautiful portraits of spirit uplifting summer skies. the message is that doing positive repairs to ourselves is not what is needed; removing ourselves from relational situations that are deficient in open acceptance, mutual aid and empathy, that are inductively actualizing our emotional distress is what is needed.

a patient recovering (coming out of two week coma) from her sixth unsuccessful attempt at suicide shared with me that, on each occasion, after several weeks, she was declared 'cured' and discharged back into the 'normal world' where she described her situation as; 'i am not smart enough, not pretty enough, not rich enough, plus i am stigmatized by my 'history' of 'mental health issues' so that the flow of open acceptance, mutual aid and empathy stalls and is replaced by alienation and sterility, bringing on another suicide attempt. "of course i am 'cured' and restored to natural functioning, but only for living in a relational social situation that does not induce emotional distress." my 'mental illness' so-to-speak, is an 'epigenetic syndrome' and i need to remove myself [one way or another] from the epigenetic fields that are sourcing it, which are meanwhile more and more ubiquitous in our society."

The TAZ of Occupy has the same quality as the psychiatric ward; i.e. it resolves deficiencies in the 'normal relational social dynamics' that is our everyday situation, by withdrawing the authoritarian field that suppresses open acceptance, spontaneous mutual aid and empathy..

The TAZ in this case, is not assertively constructed by 'positive causal actions' but arises from removing the lid on the authoritarian pressure cooker. The TAZ hitters don't see their batting average rise because of their own actions, but from the easing of the environmental pitching and fielding that opens up a space that is less suppressive and more accommodating, as 'when the cat's away the mice will play'. Rojava could not have created an asylum for its inmates; Kurds, Arabs, Assyrians, Syriacs, Turkomans, Armenians, Circassians and Chechen, without the Euro-American colonizing powers 'backing off' to allow it to happen.

The TAZ is not a positive-causal genetic agency driven thing-in-itself, but a negative causal feature, a 'decompression zone', within the plenum, arising from partial withdrawal of the usual ["normal"] epigenetic inductive influences.

Nobody is kicking in the door of my room right now trying to get me so I enjoy some security and autonomy in this space. My mind is fairly peaceful and calm and so is my body. Reading these comments allows me to enjoy a sense of comradery. Every day I recreate an autonomous zone wherever possible. I'm never able to completely eliminate some cognitive dissonance that I believe comes from living among antagonists. So my question is how do you socialize with the enemy?

Hogan's Heroes is where I got my model of antifascism. Passive resistance behind enemy lines yields the best quality of life and opportunities to advance your position. The thing about being embedded in a community is they can't live with you and they can't live without you. The tight knit nature of some neighborhoods makes it necessary for people of opposing ideologies to live in harmony with each other, hence the statement that all politics is local. Necessity is the mother of invention and ideologies tend to fade away in times of crisis.

"Lyotard sees critique as irrevocably tied to the
adversary's position. 'Get out immediately' is Lyotard's anti-critical response, 'forget immanence, it can only belong to the enemy'. This paranoia concerning the inside and the outside of enemy territory is
apparently dispelled in Libidinal Economy: 'be inside and forget it,
that's the position of the death drive' (LE, 1 p.3; emphasis added)."

This post is truly revolting:

To the authors, the significance of Occupy wasn't that it was a sudden, spontaneous, widespread objection to the extreme social inequality of the United States, and a harbinger of more sustained and formidable upheavals to come in the near future -- the very near future! -- but that Occupy provided safe spaces for emotionally satisfying play-dates among prepubescent narcissist subculture weenies...

Keating like a mofo... But is it the real slim shady or just a troll running through their card deck of troll personas?

On the basis of the use of this word in this particular context, we can say that the probability that KKKEEEAAATTTIIINNNGG wrote that post is a 96.8 percent certainly.

This (9:43) is accurate in its stating
"the significance of Occupy wasn't that it was a sudden, spontaneous, widespread objection to the extreme social inequality of the United States, and a harbinger of more sustained and formidable upheavals to come"

Occupy was trying to copy a form of protest that "worked" elsewhere, Egypt, Spain, Greece etc. But which was so unfamiliar in the US-ian context it never quite jelled. It was trying to force a form of gathering/protest/revolt onto people who hardly ever talk to their neighbors, who really don't even listen to people not in their in groups.
It was a fine experiment, but it wasn't spontaneous. It was trying to copy a form without understanding the context of that form. A mass of people gathered in one place is awesome, but when they finally get down to communicating and realize hardly anyone shares goals (or if there even should be goals) the lesson maybe is the context of here doesn't take to just any form.

So, I don't know what form gatherings want to take. It depends on what the people involved want to do. Are these recruiting opportunities? Bull sessions? Therapy? Or perhaps tactical or strategic discussions?

Couldn't agree more, I saw similar dynamics. The question I walked away with after the camp was dispersed (by only a few idle threats from the city), was about if a lack of a culture of street politics in this part of the world was to blame, or worse, that even this most organic and egalitarian form of public assembly is all just lies and theatre.

I still wonder about that but since I dislike most people, I'm not emotionally invested in democractic principles haha!

Seems to me that developing sincere relationships of mutual respect is always better than trying to manipulate strangers with guile. Unless of course, you're just hustling for survival, then do what you gotta do and I won't judge!

I think think this may have gotta do with the hyper-formalization of decision-making, or rather their formalization in those lame, counter-sensual structures. Having participated in a string of meetings in a community project lately, I can say that even with the efforts of a few people to make the endeavor more enjoyable, it's still shitty at the core.

I have experienced assemblies without any of these codes... not even the turn-taking of speech. Like totally free meetings, where people do get to quarrel openly when there's tension, but also do something out of these fights. Of course it was between more socially-mature people like the French, but maturity is not a fact of genes or whatever, it's something people grow up to.

Why are so many people unable to think group discussions outside of the turn-taking, agenda items and all the depersonalized politeness? So over-civilized. Hyper-ritualized processes that make people lose sight of why they're doing this in the first place. When it's just about a bike workshop why is there such an irresistible drive to do elaborate talks on abstract concepts for 2-3 hours? Gender issues can be settled in many other ways, just like other shit such as ableist or authoritarian behavior. Like just gtfo of your social comfort bubble and talk to people one-on-one. Most of them are not insane self-denying fucks.

(I'm not saying that to you specifically... just some behaviors I've observed in socially insecure people)

(Don't worry, no offense taken)

Cant argue with any of that at all, I guess you win the internet? I've only read about the cultural differences across the pond that are so apparently so obvious in public assemblies but enough people seem to agree that it must be a thing.

Nah, anarchism is now anarch-ism. It's all about ego, random terrorism, fascist sympathy and neckbearded trolls.
Get off the internet.

Easier said than done. I see you haven't either!

Know that one is ultimately born and dies alone before emoting, or one will attract the fishermen of souls who will impoverish the innate vitality of one's free spirit,,,,,,,,,

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