When I discussed some of these things in the comments here some people said I should write a blogpost about it, and since I have nothing else to do at the moment, here goes. This report is mostly written from the perspective of participants and supporters of the CNT-b union in Belgium but it is not any official CNT-b text, it is solely my (Tim Declercq) own personal report and responsibility.
- The first few months of war
Almost immediately after the start of the war in Ukraine in February 2022 calls were spread by some self-proclaimed anarchist groups to provide weapons and other support to people fighting in various Ukrainian militia groups. In particular these calls were spread by Vrije Bond, a group which I was still a member of at the time (I had joined in 2015). We quickly found out that many of the people being supported were part of various fascist militia groups, including the Right Sector and others. I discussed this with other people from Vrije Bond but they refused to budge and insisted on supporting these calls and not telling people about the fascist connections. So on 7 April 2022 I decided to leave Vrije Bond, it is one thing to unknowingly sponsor fascist militia groups, it is quite another to do so knowingly and willfully while trying to hide that from the people being asked to give money.
At the same time discussions about this were taking place between people from the CNT-b, where it was decided that we would refuse to support ultra-nationalist and fascist tendencies and would not move away from our position of class struggle and proletarian internationalism. As was further decided, anti-fascist groups were informed of the presence of these people in fascist militia groups, and a text exposing this was published on the Dutch Indymedia.[1] The text in question was almost immediately censored by the Indymedia team and moved to the hidden section of the site, an act of censorship that would turn out to be quite prescient for what was still to come.
- The secret union-busting campaign
At this point we are in the middle of 2022, and all that was standing in the way of this new black-brown alliance was the anarchist unions. It was at this point that Vrije Bond engaged in an extensive union-busting campaign. It should be said here that we are no strangers to union-busting efforts, after the CNT-b's involvement in the great railway strike of 2016 which came within an inch of overthrowing the government we got a good taste of this. I myself was forced into early medical retirement, Peter was getting dragged through the court system for "subversive" publications during the strike while every effort was being put into sabotaging his solidarity campaign, new laws were passed taking away railway workers' right to strike, new regulations were introduced for State Security screenings of railway personnel, etc.
The first union that would drown under the weight of this campaign was the Radical Riders union in Amsterdam (Netherlands), a union of delivery riders which had managed to win numerous fights.[2] One of its leading members, the Jewish comrade Sjerp van Wouden, informed us of an extensive use of anti-semitism during this campaign. Presumably the brown part of the black-brown alliance didn't like Jews so much, which is hardly surprising seeing how great fans they are of Stepan Bandera, Roman Shukhevych, and other Holocaust criminals.[3] The campaign against the CNT-b, and me and Peter Terryn in particular, was no less extensive though quite less effective. In this case we are talking about visits to the social center Het Groot Ongelijk in Louvain to intimidate people, death threats by the brown part of the alliance, putting people on a Myrotvorets-like website, as well as passing along names of activists to State Security. This last part did force us to pretty much lock everything down.
- One year of war
Having gained dominance in the self-proclaimed radical-left scene, the black-brown alliance had gained the self-confidence to operate more openly and brazenly. Whereas up until then most of the effort had gone into covering up and hiding the fascist connections through extensive use of censorship and secret campaigns against groups and individuals standing in the way (in particular the unions and some social centers), by now it was decided to be more open about the new alliance. As such the idea was enacted to organize a common demonstration with ultra-nationalist groups where they would march together through Brussels behind fascist slogans. This demonstration was timed for February 2023, one year after the start of the war, and was organized by several Vrije Bond groups, some self-proclaimed anti-fascist groups, and ultra-nationalist Ukrainian groups. And so this cacophony of black and brown made its way through the streets of Brussels behind screams of "Glory to the Nation! Death to its enemies!" ("Slava natsi! Smert vorogam!"), "Ukraine über alles!" ("Ukraina ponad ushe!"), and various OUN-B slogans such as "Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!" ("Slava ukraina! Heroijam slava!").[4]
Undeterred by any of this, we at the CNT-b and Het Groot Ongelijk maintained our principled opposition to this new brown-tinted nationalism that was sweeping through our movements, and remained committed to class struggle and proletarian internationalism. By now we had also gotten in touch with revolutionary trade unions in the region there, from the Donetsk miners union to the KRAS-MAT, which allowed us to fill in the details of our understanding of the situation. Despite the censorship we continued to expose these connections with ultra-nationalists and fascists in Ukraine. For example another, more detailed, exposé was published on the Dutch Indymedia.[5] Not so much because we expected it not to be censored (it quickly was) but more so as to ensure that a dated public record exists of these things so that nobody can pretend later that they "didn't know."
The censorship campaign was by now no longer limited to Vrije Bond and Indymedia NL, but included a good part of the self-proclaimed anti-fascist movement in Belgium, including Anti-Fascistisch Front and leading members of Blokbuster and CAB. By and large the very same people who had also engaged in the campaign against CNT-b after that railway strike, how little things change... All of whom were rather desperately censoring any mention of these things and banning anyone in their groups talking about it, while the promotional and sponsorship events for this new black-brown alliance were continuing at a high rate. The censorship also started hitting literally anything the CNT-b supported, even entirely unrelated to the alliance with Ukrainian ultra-nationalists, for example our calls for the Rouvikonas firetruck fundraisers or our calls for support for the Anepos solidarity convoys to Greece.
- Two years of war
The attempts by Vrije Bond to get anarchists to throw their weight behind this black-brown alliance have only accelerated. No longer content with just asking people to sponsor their friends, they have started asking people to themselves emulate and follow in the footsteps of Sergey Petrovichev ("CONTINUE THEIR WAY! WAY TO FREEDOM!" in all caps and exclamation marks).[6] It is rather a bit unclear what exactly they mean by this, as Maxim Martsinkevich is dead so it's rather difficult to take selfies with him, and White Rex doesn't hold events in Belgium or the Netherlands so it's rather difficult to make promotional material at their events.[7] At the same time, cracks have been opening in the facade due to the publications on LibCom confirming much of what we had been saying for the past 3 years.[8] Leaving the censors scrambling to cover up their role in this affair, which will inevitably fall flat on its face due to our diligence in ensuring the existence of a dated public record of it all. So make no mistake, over here in Belgium/Netherlands this information was known and discussed within a month after the start of the war.
All in all, it is rather sad that some things which have nothing to do with this had to suffer, such as the Rouvikonas firetruck fundraisers, but the positive side of this is something mentioned by an Italian comrade: "The one good thing about this war is that it shows which groups are run by the State."
Tim Declercq
1. https://web.archive.org/web/20220813005332/https://www.indymedia.nl/nod…
2. https://vrijeteelt.nl/verklaring-sjerp-van-wouden-bij-royering-uit-vrij…
3. For example from Sergey Petrovichev's group: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0i8PmU378oKsohWv…
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeYzkjv1CFY
5. https://web.archive.org/web/20230921213124/https://www.indymedia.nl/nod…
6. https://www.vrijebond.org/first-international-day-of-commemoration-of-t…
7. From the Facebook account of Sergey Petrovichev: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3293046094106365
8. https://libcom.org/article/collaboration-pro-war-anarchists-far-right-m… and https://libcom.org/article/myths-and-truth-about-enemies-our-enemies
Pictured with this article is the Belgian national-"anarchist" Jacques Guy Martin who went and fought with one of the nazi groups in Ukraine, and was well received by some self-proclaimed anarchists upon his return. (I didn't really know which picture to add to this article, so I figured this one was quite topical)
Comments
Get a website!
anon (not verified) Sat, 12/28/2024 - 07:37
Thanks for the background - very uninformed about the dutch language scene.
You/CNT-b should start your own blog to share things, instead of relying solely on other "comradely" platforms that are more likely to engage in the kind of censorship described. If that sounds like a big undertaking, try https://rant.li , https://paper.wf , or https://mataroa.blog , all of which are literally one step to register a site & immediately begin posting. If you think you can dedicate more time to it, there's https://noblogs.org or https://espivblogs.net .
why is the anarchist movement
anon (not verified) Sat, 12/28/2024 - 08:40
why is the anarchist movement so isolated from the masses that some of its members felt the need to 1) join forces with nazis, 2) join forces with liberals, or 3) run away from the conflict altogether? this is something the piece does not tell us. thus, it does not tell us the most important thing to know.
did someone say its members
anon (not verified) Sat, 12/28/2024 - 09:52
In reply to why is the anarchist movement by anon (not verified)
did someone say its members
- there's no "anarchist
anon (not verified) Sat, 12/28/2024 - 10:14
In reply to why is the anarchist movement by anon (not verified)
- there's no "anarchist movement", just random anarchists
- (1) the authenticity of these "anarchists" joining forces with Nazis is forfeit. As for (2) joining liberals, some "anarchists" do that all the time. But there's nothing wrong with (3) running away from a conflict when in inferior numbers, and acktchooally... that's what Sun Tsu is urging people to do. Rightfully so.
Shitface idiots and cross-eyed noobs fighting both in the name of Bandera and Makhno can -sadly or not- get what they deserve, fighting for a Nation.
I don't know. I don't think
Tim Declercq (not verified) Sat, 12/28/2024 - 10:35
In reply to why is the anarchist movement by anon (not verified)
I don't know. I don't think it's exactly a fair criticism that I didn't say *why* things happened the way they did, since the text never pretended to do so. I can tell you *how* things happened, as in "first this happened and then that happened and then that other thing happened...", but as to *why* things have played out the way they did? I simply don't know. I suppose I could speculate but I generally prefer to stay factual.
Some former Vrije Bond members have started a website which does try to go into more of analytical perspective of things, so maybe that has some answers for you: https://vrijeteelt.nl/ (I myself have nothing to do with this website, nor does this website go into the issues of the black-brown stuff my text was about, but maybe it has some of the answers you are looking for). Not that the black-brown issues I brought up are limited to Vrije Bond, but they are the main protagonist in this affair.
Fair enough. Thanks for the
anon (not verified) Sat, 12/28/2024 - 12:46
In reply to I don't know. I don't think by Tim Declercq (not verified)
Fair enough. Thanks for the level headed and thorough response. It is a question really for all of us. Many just simply wash their hands of this type of crisis, but it is really important that we learn from it instead of just saying "OH no true anarchist would do X"
you fucking moron: you were right there talking about this
CalvinSmith (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 05:56
In reply to I don't know. I don't think by Tim Declercq (not verified)
as if you wrote the article, and you even provided a link to this organization that "you were a member of in 2015", so stop with your fucking superiority bullshit. You are basically a fucking fascist, and so is every other so-called "anarchist" participating in any of the U.S. wars or offering "words of solidarity" in support of them.
And a moment ago you were telling me i have an issue with reading comprehension? Stop fucking whining about it when a stranger on the interpret "mis" interprets your shitty online politics, claiming anything on this website is "proof" of anything at all. Are you fucking aware of any of the dumb bullshit that goes down here? Goddamn.
"you even provided a link to
Tim Declercq (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 06:16
In reply to you fucking moron: you were right there talking about this by CalvinSmith (not verified)
"you even provided a link to this organization that "you were a member of in 2015", so stop with your fucking superiority bullshit. You are basically a fucking fascist, and so is every other so-called "anarchist" participating in any of the U.S. wars or offering "words of solidarity" in support of them."
Did you perhaps miss the part where I said I left this organization in April 2022 exactly *because* of their support for fascist militia groups fighting in Ukraine? Besides, even before this I was more a member on paper than anything else, not that I was particularly involved in anything with them for years anymore. It either takes an astounding lack of reading comprehension or an equally astounding amount of bad faith to take this article I wrote and call me a "fucking fascist" for "participating in any of the U.S. wars or offering "words of solidarity" in support of them" when this whole article is basically a description of how I and some comrades have been doing the exact opposite of that.
"your shitty online politics"
Tim Declercq (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 07:03
In reply to you fucking moron: you were right there talking about this by CalvinSmith (not verified)
"your shitty online politics"
Shitty online politics you say? Here's a picture with me on the strike committee for the Antwerp region during the great railway strike of 2016: https://imgur.com/a/IwSntgI And make no mistake here, this wasn't some average letting-off-steam strike by some reformist union, this was a wildcat strike going directly for the fall of the government - "to the finish!" (almost made it too). As I already stated in the article, our comrade Peter was later dragged through the court system for "subversive" publications during this strike, in particular a publication with instructions of how to sabotage railways (sabotage was also an intrinsic part of this strike, which made it acquire even more of an insurrectionary character https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20160601_02317914). And as I also stated, I was afterwards placed in a special retirement regime which, among other things, precludes me from entering in any sort of labour relation. That is, I've been effectively blacklisted from the labour market in the whole country for the past 8 years.
So what about you, Calvin? Care to share something about your offline politics? Or is it limited to calling people "fucking fascists" online?
Don't worry so much, comrade
anon (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 07:19
In reply to "your shitty online politics" by Tim Declercq (not verified)
Don't worry so much, comrade Tim. Apparently this guy just forgot to take his pills. Judging by his tirades, he's in a pretty gloomy state of mind right now.
Don't worry Tim, CalvinShit's
anon (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 07:21
In reply to "your shitty online politics" by Tim Declercq (not verified)
Don't worry Tim, CalvinShit's just another somewhat-elaborate troll who occasionally uses badass insults to make himself feel superior to his online opponents while not taking the time to read things too much, Funny at times but also an asshole 24/7.
Poor, poor Calvin. Plz be more silly and less annoying.
rather than mindlessly argue with an ideologue, i did some
CalvinSmith (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 09:48
In reply to "your shitty online politics" by Tim Declercq (not verified)
research into your original claim that there are no anarchists fighting in the Ukraine war: this is true if you believe anarchists do not participate in state conflicts, and i am fine with this assessment.
However, in the more literal sense ("fascist vs. other-ideologies"), your claims that everyone from Ukrainian paramilitary organizations does not appear to hold any water whatsoever. To back up your claim, you post pictures, and you write jibberish essays in which you expect everyone on here to believe you at face value. You have also posted an article about railroad sabotage by an organization, good for you.
Your ideological game here really does appear to be identical to Putins, in which he is claiming that because there are nazis in paramilitary organizations (and this was a known fact, for a long time), that makes the entire organization nazi, anti-immigrant, fascist, etc. So stop with the dumb conspiracy theory crap, stop getting in flame wars with people you don't know from the United States, and consider what you are saying. It doesn't actually make any sense when you look at the evidence.
Of course, I am only clarifying my rage towards you, and your zero-evidence insults, and i am just expecting you to continue with your line of reasoning (which makes me laugh, good luck with the war efforts you moron)
"your original claim that
Tim Declercq (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 10:22
In reply to rather than mindlessly argue with an ideologue, i did some by CalvinSmith (not verified)
"your original claim that there are no anarchists fighting in the Ukraine war"
I made no such claim. Don't put words in my mouth.
"your claims that everyone from Ukrainian paramilitary organizations does not appear to hold any water whatsoever"
everyone from Ukrainian paramilitary organizations...what? This isn't even a proper sentence.
"To back up your claim, you post pictures"
The choice and reason for the picture is literally explained in the text, here I'll quote it for you: "Pictured with this article is the Belgian national-"anarchist" Jacques Guy Martin who went and fought with one of the nazi groups in Ukraine, and was well received by some self-proclaimed anarchists upon his return."
"consider what you are saying. It doesn't actually make any sense when you look at the evidence."
What I'm saying makes sense just fine. What you *imagine* I'm saying might not, but then I'm also not responsible for your imagination, so I don't see why I should care about that.
So, given that you seem reduced to just arguing against claims I never made, here's the deal: If you want to argue against something I claimed you will literally and explicitly quote the claim you're arguing against. If you're going to continue doing this "your claim of [insert some stuff you just made up yourself]" I'll simply ignore it from now on as internet noise.
i don't think it's fair to judge the aforementioned perspectives
CalvinSmith (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 04:10
In reply to why is the anarchist movement by anon (not verified)
so quickly: even though it does seem odd that the author engages with unions and state armed forces to this degree. Like someone else pointed out, anarchism can't have members. This Tim person does have my attention for a while though, as this is not a drop form of anarchism, nor is it fully identitarian as both are popularized in the United States...the identitarian drop outs are very boring if you look beyond the indignation in their logic.
there is a picture here of a paramilitary guy with
CalvinSmith (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 09:55
The "IN" logo, which is a nazi organization. I'm still not seeing how the picture (which is apparently proof of there only being nazis in the paramilitary groups) relates to anything in the article: Maybe Tim DeWhatever could be courteous to english language readers instead of posting links to all these dutch websites which require google translation, and still do not contain proof of any of this.
Fuck this website overall.
wut if ya an T deC and Limpy
anon (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 10:10
In reply to there is a picture here of a paramilitary guy with by CalvinSmith (not verified)
wut if ya an T deC and Limpy are all bots and this site is just another corner of the purported dead internet...? welp, i'm gonna go keep reading anti-oedipus i guess
good point anon! i wonder
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 10:17
In reply to wut if ya an T deC and Limpy by anon (not verified)
good point anon! i wonder about that myself sometimes
it's like roko's basilisk or whatever, so now you must be tortured for eternity or get mind wiped
if it's my choice i would opt
anon (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 10:20
In reply to good point anon! i wonder by lumpy (not verified)
if it's my choice i would opt for mind wipe bc i trust my body to handle itself more so than being some kind of cassandra to any helpful purpose. presumably a mind wipe is one good way to lose the spooks
good choice! regret to inform
lumpy (not verified) Sun, 12/29/2024 - 12:22
In reply to if it's my choice i would opt by anon (not verified)
good choice! regret to inform you that the mindwipe includes a reinstall of the factory default operating system with all its factory issue spooks BUT! don't worry, you won't be disappointed for long. just stare in to this little red light for a moment!
Read some Stirner dude, that
anon (not verified) Thu, 01/02/2025 - 01:42
In reply to if it's my choice i would opt by anon (not verified)
Read some Stirner dude, that'll get rid of the Spooks. I'm assuming you have critical thinking abilities,,,,
Stirner’s The Ego and Its Own
Dominic Black Thu, 01/02/2025 - 09:06
In reply to Read some Stirner dude, that by anon (not verified)
Stirner’s The Ego and Its Own is little more than cynical nihilism masquerading as philosophy. His dismissal of shared values as “spooks” ignores the reality that concepts like solidarity and mutual aid are rooted in human evolution and essential for progress. While he’s adept at tearing down constructs, Stirner offers no vision for building something better, leaving only a void where selfish autonomy reigns. True liberation balances individual autonomy with collective well-being, fostering communities where everyone can thrive. Stirner’s egoism fails to inspire or construct—it’s a dead end for those seeking meaningful change.
I don’t understand why Egoists idolize Stirner. When you critically examine his words, he wasn’t nearly as intelligent as he tried to appear. Egoism has value to a degree, but unhinged Egoism boils down to being a selfish nihilist while dismissing others’ values as mere "spooks." His philosophy lacks any real psychological depth, which he outright dismisses, along with anything else that might challenge his arguments. From the very start of his book, he sets up a framework designed to reject critique rather than engage with it meaningfully.
What's wrong with cynical nihilism?
SirEinzige Thu, 01/02/2025 - 09:22
In reply to Stirner’s The Ego and Its Own by Dominic Black
There's an entire Greek philosophical tradition that is very much in continuum with Stirner and it includes things like virtue. Nothing in Stirner controls against having values and aesthetics. Just because Stirner offers no SOCIETAL/SOCIETARIAN vision does not mean he offers nothing and rejecting society does not mean selfish autonomy. If anything that is a parasocial product of hive minded society. Collective well-being is fine providing you are not talking about REIFIED collectivity that requires hive mechanical minded sublimation to exist.
Stirner was a product of his time but the structure of his argument is timeless and will have a place in philosophy as long as there is society and its discontents. Being a nihilist or a cynic(Greco) does not entail dismissive selfishness. He also wrote an entire critics response where he more then dealt with his critics.
The problem with this
Dominic Black Thu, 01/02/2025 - 09:57
In reply to What's wrong with cynical nihilism? by SirEinzige
The problem with this approach is that it offers no real solution—only prolonged, meaningless personal liberation. No one can truly be free while others remain oppressed. Freedom is inherently collective; until we’re all free, none of us are.
Cynicism and negative nihilism (as distinct from more nuanced or constructive forms of nihilism) are, at their core, abdications of responsibility. They’re fear masquerading as indifference—a way to avoid accountability by dismissing any argument that challenges their worldview. It’s a façade of intelligence, rejecting meaningful discourse instead of engaging with it.
Ultimately, this mindset is reactionary. It doesn’t lead to meaningful action or change; instead, it paralyzes progress by denying the possibility of something better. True liberation requires not just rejecting flawed systems, but taking responsibility for building something new—together.
If you believe Stirner has a meaningful response to this critique, feel free to share it. Personally, I don’t think he ever adequately addressed this point.
Ultimately, this mindset is reactionary. It doesn’t lead to meaningful action or change; instead, it paralyzes progress by denying the possibility of something better. True liberation requires not just rejecting flawed systems, but taking responsibility for building something new—together.
"Freedom is inherently
anon (not verified) Thu, 01/02/2025 - 10:27
In reply to The problem with this by Dominic Black
"Freedom is inherently collective; until we’re all free, none of us are." I wonder if you ever realized the negative side of this phrase. In how reversely you gotta wait 'til everyone's free to be free, or assert your freedom, which is alienated as fuck as well as self-defeating.
Freedom is something to take, or not. As until all are free might not happen in your lifetime... so then if you submit to this principle you make yourself a prisoner of society, at least as much as any other legalist/citizenist dupe.
Re-read Blessed is the Flame...
that's ... not how that works
lumpy (not verified) Thu, 01/02/2025 - 10:34
In reply to "Freedom is inherently by anon (not verified)
that's ... not how that works at all. who told you that's how that works?
the point being made is that only-some-are-free would be just another hierarchy.
it isn't an edict that you "gotta wait" because it's just a value statement, not an order to follow
It's not a hierarchy it's just a discriptive
SirEinzige Thu, 01/02/2025 - 23:53
In reply to that's ... not how that works by lumpy (not verified)
There will always be some people that have the short end of the stick in physical reality. Unless you want to replicate something like Christianity which tried(and failed) to solve this than you have to accept that there will always been unfree situations that are solved by combinations of might/ability, collective force and other factors.
That's not what that means,
Dominic Black Thu, 01/02/2025 - 10:59
In reply to "Freedom is inherently by anon (not verified)
That's not what that means, at all. And no, I may never see liberation in my time, though public opinion on other platforms states otherwise. That's what altruism is, being kind to benefit others, egoism is at it's best when it's described as being altruistic because it feels good not because someone said you had to, but that's not all of Stirner's arguments which is where all of my disagreements with him come into play.
I see no negative side to the phrase unless you're overanalyzing it, if you are free and others are not then you have become the elite you sought to dismantle. You are now the only one with freedom looking down upon others who don't. You've stopped being an anarchist and instead become part of the system anarchists wish to dismantle.
personally i'm not here for a
anon (not verified) Thu, 01/02/2025 - 09:32
In reply to Stirner’s The Ego and Its Own by Dominic Black
personally i'm not here for a 100% spook purge, but i feel that most people could stand to go about 98% more egoist. i feel that's it's a correct reaction to the fact that individual bodies are the units of autonomy in our species. the only times ppl can get saddled under authority is due to spooks. and by acting as individuals, claiming to represent no one, knowing no one could represent oneself, government and pretense would become impossible. i don't think selfish autonomy is the negative you purport it to be: who else knows you but your self? who else can act on your behalf but your self? conscious individual actors are arguably responsible for most prosocial acts, if you take it for granted that orgs can only understand things symbolically and impersonally.
"individual autonomy balanced with collective wellbeing" the thing is, collective wellbeing is just an obfuscated way of saying the sum of individual wellbeing. there is no "collective" that has needs and wants. imo the devastating separation between the symbolic order and physical reality can only be mitigated by destroying the boundary between the decision-making class and the enacting class. right now that boundary is what makes builders complain about building codes being bullshit, teachers having to compromise on teaching to hit districts standards, and workers "following orders" to excuse the personal effects of their actions. such things would be no better with a federated council model. the only way to close the gap between the symbolic (that which is considered in decision-making) and the real (that which is enacted) is for each person to both be a decision maker and a technician. that way, at least, everyone would be culpable for their actions, and they would be incentivized to consider things as if they matter. not to mention they'd be acting with much more complete situational knowledge than any council could ever hope to hear and digest. this is kinda like the dangerous space policy for conflict resolution...
I think egoism gets some
Dominic Black Thu, 01/02/2025 - 09:51
In reply to personally i'm not here for a by anon (not verified)
I think egoism gets some things right—like emphasizing individual autonomy and the responsibility each of us has for our own actions. But my main issue with egoism is its dismissal of any external compulsion to act. Seeing suffering and feeling compelled to do something isn’t being enslaved by spooks; it’s being human. We’ve evolved as a species to care about one another because collective survival depends on it.
You’re right that individual autonomy is central, and no one knows you better than yourself. But part of being human is recognizing that we’re deeply interconnected. Acting out of compassion or solidarity isn’t a denial of autonomy—it’s an acknowledgment of the reality that none of us exists in isolation. The drive to help others isn’t something imposed by an external authority; it’s rooted in our biology and our shared existence.
I agree that breaking down the boundary between decision-making and action is crucial. Systems that separate the two lead to alienation, inefficiency, and a lack of accountability. Everyone being both a decision-maker and an actor ensures responsibility and better-informed actions. But even in such a system, our interconnectedness means we’ll still need to grapple with the fact that our choices impact others. To me, that’s not a problem to be solved; it’s a fundamental part of being human.
In a truly anarchist commune, individuals won't have council decisions imposed on them. We have horizontal systems that prioritize individuals specifically taking into account the egoist perspective.
yeah i don't consider
anon (not verified) Thu, 01/02/2025 - 10:03
In reply to I think egoism gets some by Dominic Black
yeah i don't consider interconnection to be a problem to be solved, either. imo realizing egoist stuff leads to being better able to take responsibility and consider others etc. i think the way personalities work, some like to think in terms of obligations as you mention, and some, like me, see the deconstructed uninhibition as permissive of better cooperation. i personally will never declare myself to have any obligations, but i like it like that, it actually lets me reach out to strangers more bc idgaf
that's probably why stirner
lumpy (not verified) Thu, 01/02/2025 - 10:11
In reply to yeah i don't consider by anon (not verified)
that's probably why stirner is compelling, with both of you able to draw useful but opposite conclusions from his writing. for me, the nihilism and egoism was always about a better analysis, better critical thinking. it's less useful as a set of values.
you still gotta choose your values and stirner can help with that
thanks for putting out your
anon (not verified) Thu, 01/02/2025 - 10:25
In reply to that's probably why stirner by lumpy (not verified)
thanks for putting out your "general conclusion detector" tho and helping us make sense of this terrifying inconsistent whirld
oh ya know, i'm just throwin
lumpy (not verified) Thu, 01/02/2025 - 10:29
In reply to thanks for putting out your by anon (not verified)
oh ya know, i'm just throwin peanuts because you're in public!
I agree, we should be nice
Dominic Black Thu, 01/02/2025 - 10:53
In reply to yeah i don't consider by anon (not verified)
I agree, we should be nice because we *want* to be nice, because being nice should be a norm whenever possible. My entire argument against Stirner isn't his individualism, I would describe myself more as a social anarchist, but for me the best way to care the collective is through the best care of each individual within the collective, including their autonomy. I personally can't help his dismissal of "spooks" is childish, reductionist, and pseudo-intellectual. I think egoism in it's framework could have been handled better.
LOL
Fake (not verified) Sun, 01/19/2025 - 08:59
Don't be confused by that mix of nationalism/fascism and so called "anarchy".
There is no freedom in their minds and they want to get a soft of fascist state but take a way liberals, communists, democrats and anyone who would oppose them with the ideas of laws and human rights.
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