What is the ratio here of civ to anti-civ folks? What are you, dear reader? What does civilization mean to you, and what does anti-civ mean? And a different but related question: what model do you base a better human world on? Ants? Bees? Plants? Bacteria? Better humans than the ones who surround you? Software? Programmers? What actual interactions that exist in the world do you think give a good picture of what people/anarchists could/would do with each other in a better world?