Atlanta, GA: Tractors Sabotaged for the ZAD, No Tav, Hambach Forest

From Atlanta Indymedia

On the night of February 22nd, we poured a mixture of sand and water into the fuel tanks of two tractors used in the construction of a new Atlanta streetcar. The streetcar is one of many major development projects the city has initiated in the past few years as a part of a general plan to revitalize downtown. We know that this plan only means more police and unaffordable housing.

We offer this small gesture of solidarity to the ZAD, the No TAV movement, and the occupation of the Hambach Forest. We would also like to send strength to those affected by increased surveillance or repression the new developments have brought to Atlanta.

Our action was very simple to perform. It did not take long to plan or to enact and we found all of the materials on the side of the road. We do not believe that an accumulation of "actions" makes a revolution, but we wanted to give encouragment to the current and future participants of revolutionary struggles. Onward, strong hearts!



FYI adding sand and water to the gas tank will cause very little (if any) damage. At the most it will clog fuel filters, which is a cheap and simple repair. If someone wanted to (hypothetically of course) cause significant damage to equipment via the gas tank they should use liquid bleach. Bleach has a chemical reaction with gasoline and diesel fuel which immediately causes oxidation (rusting) to the fuel system, which would result in thousands of dollars in damages. MythBusters did a whole thing on it.

I heard Pepsi is quite good too... I mean for diesel engines lol.

Sugar is supposed to work pretty well.

Pepsi is basically sugar, along with water, industrial toxic waste and dead foetus juice.
(two thumbs up)

now that's good eating!

"Sugar and syrup are ineffective in gasoline or diesel fuel tanks and oil reservoirs. At best, they will merely clog the filter. A handful or more of sand in the fuel tank or oil is much more effective and much easier. Also, with sand you need not carry incriminating items like sugar or a bottle of Karo syrup." -ecodefense

Although it may be more effective to use a combination of bleach, sand and water, there is a good chance that sand and water alone will get the job done. The bleach will mostly cause rust.

I have seen few more effective than a rag and a match. If you are going to break law at least have some fun.

that mythbusters was about sugar, actually. enough water alone will fuck up a vehicles engine if it runs through the fuel injectors into the actual engine and if the sand does it can create friction thus wear and tear etc

It doesn't fucking work. IF you actually managed to get sugar or sand into the fuel injector or the engine, it would be absolutely fucked, but the problem is that motorized vehicles practically always come standard with a fuel filter that prevents literally that exact thing from happening.

You pour the sand/sugar into the gas tank and it gets caught in the filter, end of story.

You could try things like water or soda to dilute the fuel and fuck things up that way, but you would need A LOT of it - like, gallons, not just an ordinary water bottle.

BUT - THIS IS IMPORTANT - adding sand to the OIL RESERVOIR of an engine might cause catastrophe, because I don't believe there's any filter there - but this requires opening up the hood of the car.

Mythbusters tried putting both drian cleaner and sugar in the gas tank and the engine ran fine. Moth ball in the gas tank actually made the engine run smoother. Bleach in the gas tank stalled up the engine and rusted up the fuel tank. Bleach in the oil reserve completely destroyed the engine.

In diesel engines the oil is already mixed with gas. That's the point. Most industrial machinery is diesel, cause it's much more practical and cost-effective. Though easier to fuck up!

A two cycle engine is when the oil and gas are mixed. Diesel engines have separate oil and fuel lines, filters and so on.

You're sooo fuckin brilliant I'm going to watch remakes of the popeye the sailor man cartoons fucking amazing idiot!

I was simply pointing out that diesel engines do not mix fuel and oil. While diesel fuel is heavier than gasoline it is basically the same as kerosene.

A new generation is coming up against development. They've rejected the old model of social isolation and militancy of ALF/ELF. They lack knowledge of tactics these older groups had. Where can this new generation learn about sabotage and destruction?

Both history and science have much to impart to those who wish to change the current political stance. Chemisrty being one of the more important subjects.

Just remember: I will not be sending any money to your website when you do some stupid ass shit with your oogle buddies.

When I take any action that could run foul of the law, I do so alone. No conspiracy charges that way, plus no worries about rats. But your concern is appreciated. I am not a fan of minor acts that could be construed as vandalism, although I understand going for nothing to acts of true resistance, is a pretty large leap. But if one studies important subjects, if the time comes that the choice has been removed, you'd be ready. I am already a gov't target, I accept that as a badge of honor, I was once one of them.

But what if you get caught and no other anarchists have any ways to know what happened? That's probably where having people around who got yer back makes all the difference.

Of course, group/collective organizing is rather a useless, and unsafe, burden in some situations.

there will always be someone who knew what I was doing. Though these people take no part themselves, they hold packages for me. This is why I have taken to writing on the internet, this is my John Hancock, let King Obama read it. Some people start a revolution by setting a fire, some by setting themselves on fire. There are times that the world needs a hero to stand up, and sometimes they need a martyr to die.

Fuck martyrs... religious fundamentalist shit. There's nothing radical in setting yourself aflame on a public place, it's only an extremely painful display of self-hatred and victimization.

Martyrs are not always so by choice, though some are. I understand that you do not respect those who would give all to spark a change, to perform one act that even the media masters could not ignore or spin into a positive event. All those who do more than just talk stand a chance of becoming unwilling martyrs, although many will simply be forced to languish in prison. Some would say it takes more courage to live than die, but the impact of martyrs on history is profound. Before you get off the sidelines and to action make your peace with death, because many of the victims of the American gov't never saw death coming.

WTF are you doing on this site? Martyrs and fundamentalist religionists are the antithesis of what anarchism is all about. You're some twisted bitter eschatological wingnut talking shit like 'make your peace with death'. Its about making peace in the moment you fucked up piece of shit!

If it causes you some level of discomfort to know that there are those who see the world in a different way, I can not help that. Part of the problem I think is that some do see only the moment in front of them, not the longer range of their actions. Having peace in the moment is easy, although the only way a change can be made is when people stand their ground instead of running away, that requires peace with the future; even if that means you are not in it. Live for the moment and you will run away when discomfort or danger arrives. Lastly, your attempt at bravado by talking tough on the internet diminishes your efforts in my opinion.

WTF is not tough talk imprivisaro! There is no discomfort in the moment, maybe YOU shouls self-analyse your own approach to historical input when you start talking about such abstract concepts such as 'peace with the future'. So instigating destruction, angst, opposition from the commonalty will produce this futuristic miraculous event which will transform the world into your idea of utopia, while everyone else bows to your blue-print and succumbs to your totalitarian social design. REALLY FUCKING INSPIRING EINSTEIN! Gasp!

Unlike you, I do not claim to speak for anyone except myself. Unlike you, I don't mind people disagreeing with me. You seem to be the one with hopes of grandeur, and installing some utopian ideal. The results of taking action can never be fully known, although actions are the only way to cause a transformation. My stance is that the American gov't has become something that is feared by its own people, and hated through out the world. There needs to be a change, how it happens, when, and the end results are all uncertain. If the unknown future is an abstract idea that frightens you and causes you to lash out with pointless posturing, not my problem.

Yeah, we know already... there's tons of people seeing the world in many different ways. Some of these ways are authoritarian. That's the point with commenters above replying to your counter-anarchistic crap. No one's holding you back from sacrificing your life to some blurry ideals that have little grasp on reality, and to enforce that upon others is the absolute despotism.

I am not sure why you indicate that I am trying to force anything on anyone, I find it at least entertaining how a few people on here think they have been nominated for king anarchist, are there allowed to speak for everyone. I don't think that anarchist should dream of waving pom-poms and consider the height of action to be trying to damage a tractor. But thanks for at least remaining calm.

Yes I'm the calm king of the anarchists with a wage-slave job thankyou.

If you, ignoramus, had any idea where anarchism came from historically you'd know sabotaging tractors IS part of the praxis, and this very humble communique also makes it clear they don't see it as the greatest anarchist gesture they'll ever make.

Or are you yet another stupid idiot speak in defense of the lives of motor vehicles?

Just because something has happened in history does not therefore equate to being right. As far as this being only the beginning, I don't try and tell the future, but many who started by breaking window and trying to damage an engine end up being corporate lackeys and bank tellers. I do not think that this particular action left on it own served any purpose. It seems many on this site do not believe in a greater strategy, many anarchists seem content to play checkers while their overlords play chess. My issue with this action has been the attempt of other to pretend that it was something important. As you seem to claim to speak for those who have performed this particular action of vandalism, and claim to understand their larger intent, perhaps it will lead to great things; lets hope.

Only historical "mistake" is yours. Luddites have conducted many sabotages that have set a precedent for stronger labor organizing, while hurting the pockets of capitalists.

These machines were disabled, directly prompting expensive delays in the construction project, and potentially causing insecurity among the shareholders behind it. If you don't understand how capitalism works, stop pretending having better solutions than others against it, you've got none.

You're suddenly posting here a lot, claiming everyone needs to think bigger, which is true. But there's a pretty simple psychological explanation for someone who's spending a lot of time online, criticizing others for their perceived weakness/powerlessness. Perhaps it would help if I told you that most here already realize how underwhelming a lot of the actions are? Save you some time?

but then people choose to respond to my post. I guess I tend to be polite enough to answer people who posted a response to me. Granted most of the responses were less than cordial, but I am not easily offended. As for criticizing others, it was my intent to put forward a point of view. When I teach someone how to play chess it is often necessary to point out mistakes, not in an effort to undermine their confidence but to simulate growth. As for the why now or all of a sudden as you put it, certain good fortunes how allowed me more time to pursue a heightened activist life. Even your post strikes me odd, if you think I am posting to much why create a post design to elicit a response? I do not particular like the phases about saving time, time cannot be saved. You could query about wasting time, but then I do not feel conversation or the exchange of ideas to be a waste of time. Although thank you for your concern. If it helps, my life I fairly active and I would not say that this quite moment in my life will last long.

I didn't say you post too much, just think it's always ironic when people come here and repeatedly say "nobody is doing enough". There's a steady stream of people coming here and saying GET SERIOUS which after awhile, starts to look like they're screaming at the mirror. I critique actions here too.

I really hope you aren't marsh.

you are a govt target after once being one of them,,,ummm, we are ALL part of the govt whether we like it or not. Freedom of speech in this country allows you freedoms unheard of in most other cultures throughout the world, yet your Manichean personal philosophy has obviously left you battling a complex dualistic cosmology! Good luck if you take up the pen, as for the sword, no, you have already failed metaphorically and in real time!

If you take up the pen, you are a target. I find it funny that you claim we still have freedom of speech yet submit your post 'anonymous '. If you are a target, the choices are fight or bow. As for failing... what you want a list of things I have done? Only a fool would do so, although I find it odd you would make such an assertion. Anyhow, I hope some day you are brave enough to try and use your 'freedom of speech', because then you might join the fight.

"ummm, we are ALL part of the govt whether we like it or not."

Fuck off fascist idiot. Go suck a bureaucrat.

Maybe they could start by not completely alienating and tossing out the older crowed.

There is no "in" to be tossed "out" of. I am a part of the "younger generation", I suppose, being in my early 20's and I can honestly say that some of the people I have most affinity with are ten years older than me. Unfortunately, many of them do not live where I live. In the town I live in, there are a few older folks who I really like and who I respect and think they have good ideas...but they have their own shit going on and I think they just don't really wanna chill with people way younger than them.

As far as young people learning about sabotage:

1) go look at older ELF communiques or at things like Ecodefense

2) read international communiques

I think this is your own psychological hang up. Stop blaming other people.


Person your responding to here.

Blaming other people for what? I'm not claiming victimhood. It's an observation.
Anarchists in North America tend toward insular youth culture.

I'm not even arguing that the old ELF / ALF were any different.

Oil is filtered just like fuel in all modern engines (the old VW Beetle was a notorious exception). There is one difference, however: since a cutoff of oil flow will destroy an engine in seconds under load, oil filters have a bypass valve that opens at about 15 PSI. Sand would fill the filter, don't know if the oil flow through that sand would force the bypass valve to open. Adding something very fine-grained like talc, flour, etc to the sand might clog the filter and let the sand reach the bearings. In the old days, monkeywrenchers would sometimes remove the oil filter and pack sand or grinding compound directly into the center of the filter, which is the output/downstream side. On filters with permanent outside cans and throwaway paper elements inside, it was even easier: remove the element, fill the can with sand and reinstall.

First, this is completely stupid to discuss the how-to's on sabotaging machinery in an Anews comment section. Facebook self-sacrifice mind-warped culture, I know... But it's never too late to learn.

Second, some of the nastiest, stickiest sugar compound on the planet is good ol' molasses. I'm putting this on my bike rims, and once dry, that stuff outlasts even rain and multiplies braking power like hell. It takes only a lil' to cover the whole rims. Dry molasses on a plate, like dried eggs, is also one of the biggest butthurts when dish-washing. Just so you know... for better braking in your daily city treks.

Security culture applies to discussing illegal actions that you or others have taken or plan to take, not to general discussions on tactics or strategies for carrying out sabotage. That's not illegal, yet. Granted, discussing it on a public forum may put you on someone's radar, so if your aim is to act on these suggestions rather than to simply promote them, then it's probably better to keep a low profile.

Promoting illegal actions is also part of the culprits, for FBI agents. At least, it attracts attention where you wouldn't like. And no, being behind Tor doesn't protect anyone, where insidious scripts are working against posters.

Or go read ProsePoints "Terms and Conditions"...

Please don't spread misinformation about Tor.

You are right that Java can be used to unmask users by having their system ping their location to an NSA server, thus allowing for traffic analysis and the loss of anonymity. Insisting that it "doesn't protect anyone" is dishonest though.

It all depends so much on what your use-case is and people have to decide for themselves. Using clearnet is like having unprotected sex completely. Using Tor is like pulling out. Using a live-system (TAILS etc) is like using a condom perhaps (most probably good but if tampered with could screw you over). Just like pregnancy, there is no perfect perfect solution.

Those are terrible analogies, stupid.

Yeah...I think I get the sentiment but like...lel barely helpful

Okay I should have removed that comma between "anyone" and "where". Doesn't change much to the reality that this website requires those potentially-unmasking scripts for posting anything, so my warning still sticks.

Posting here -unless from a safe wifi hotspot you're never using, and behind a decent GNU/Linux system- is assuming that it can be unmasked at any time. This is not a safe website by any means, though it used to be much safer.

This exactly

Following a strict security culture makes it so that we CAN openly talk about tactics and strategies.

That is if you're doing it right and security culture isn't just an extension of your own paranoia (which sec-cult is supposed to alleviate)

Stupid liberals.

If the police are the problem go after the police. Trying to slow down a public transportation project seems a bit counter productive. As for driving up property values, this is a side affect of improvements but is not all bad. I am just curious what is the end goal... Detroit?

Detroit without cops.

Detroit without cops, and not-too contaminated green areas to farm on.

What's wrong with Detroit?

There are plenty of anarchistic projects, rising to the occasion, and way more possibilities there.

Hell, even in a recent Anthony Bourdain show on CNN his questions of why not do politics, get a new mayer were met with, "Politics are corrupt, a waste of time. We want another way."

Take a 'negative' and turn it into a positive. Collapse is all around us. It's truly inspiring to see that human attempts to control, tame, predict/make predictable, quantify all fail.

---toledo, where the ability to collectively cultivate unused city land can happen pretty easily (or if not vacant plods sort of 're-wild' and remain untouched by development projects).

I agree that some positive changes are being made in Detroit, but even your own post speaks of collapse. So that was the point of my question, is the complete collapse of Atlanta the goal? One can not speak of rising from the ashes useless there are ashes. If that is the goal, then speak it, and you may find friends.

But do not ask people to "speak it" here. We know who is watching this website, through the scripts and shit, and most people would prefer not having to find friends in jail.

Many anarchists are against this techno-civilization and want to bring it down the best ways possible. But unlike those other civilization-destroyers working for Wall Street (who seek to pull the collapse towards their own agenda, namely "Agenda 21"), we are exposed to intense political repression from a totalitarian State. Support/release our prisoners if you wanna find friends.

But as you did just state what you believe the goal to be, I only seek clarification. I do not live in Atlanta, can you say that this action was part of that goal or is it speculation? I am still not sold on the idea that this action would really further that goal. Attacking mass transit would in my opinion hurt the working class the most, save for the small airports which tend to serve private jet. As for not speaking of your goals, yes be careful because it is a fine line. It seems most Anarchists get charged with conspiracies of some type, one can never say out right that the goal is to topple the gov't. However if one believes the only way out of the horror that has become the American gov't is to go the way of Detroit, there is no crime there. The most important action must happen in silence though, if you need to brag... you'll go to prison. Share your philosophies, but act alone, and in secret.


It is made to circulate tourists and international businessmen around downtown and into the different neighborhoods for bars and food and shit. It is a part of a citywide project called the Beltline which is a privately owned bike path-street car combo that has actually taken millions of dollars from existing, working class, mass transit. Everywhere near the beltline and the streetcar is getting more and more expensive as landlords cash in on the new investments.

I would have thought it was at least in part designed to lower traffic at rush hour, to get from and to work. Nor did I realize this was a privately owned project, I don't care if it a stadium or a street car, private companies should not benefit from public coffers. If this is the case then it is certainly a problem connected to gov't corruption and the elitist attitude. As for the increasing property values, this always happens with transportation projects, but that does not mean all transportation projects are bad.

Liberal lol. Public Vs Private dichotomies... Corruption... For butt's sake learn how to count! LoL

"It is made to circulate tourists and international businessmen"

Exactly why this target was accurate!

Demented Lizard launches apish gorilla attack against complex machinery and then refuses to grunt.

Except that within CNN's channel, this statement on some post-democratic solution is not suggesting anarchy but rather fascism.

Fucking primitivists! Don't they realize that 7 billion people getting around on donkeys is unsustainable. Fucking morons!

Do you realize 7 billions of people going around in cars and trucks is sooo green and sustainable (sic), trollcop #463583?

lol at the moron's self-inflicted moronism.

Your social alternatives are sooo attractive to people aren't they, you think you can win the hearts and minds over to your fledgling untested over-righteousness illusions like snapping your fingers voila, especially the underdeveloped countries of the world who are only now emerging out of 500 years of colonialism, that they are going to cheer on Zerzan and other yuppie greenies who wish them to maintain their disease ridden existence and unmechanized drudgery in overpopulated communities while you sit smugly behind a computer and theorize about the utopia required to be able to sip a latté in the morning! Get real intellectual moron, go out in the street, don't be a bourgeois kid and throw a window smashing tantrum so you can feel "part of the rebellious scene" [unless your dads an out of work glazier] Realise that the commonality are always going for technology to take away the endless wage labor drudgery and menial tasks of life that the capitalist system creates. Instead of destroying tractors get some smarts and steal it and give it to some poor farmer peasants you fucking post-luddite primitivist greenie moron!

Straw arguments so pathetic they don't even merit a response.

Some kind of leftist no doubt. Very few are dumber.

(expletives) lol wait I gotta go cry in a corner.

This is a pretty cool attack. I don't know why people think primitivists did this just because it was tractors, though. The communique doesn't even really mention the environment at all. Attacks against actual infrastructure like this is possibly a more interesting approach to the problem of capitalist redevelopment in cities (sometimes vaguely called "gentrification"). Like the communique says, however, actions alone do not build a revolutionary movement.

Brave either way. Good going

Discussing this communiqué with friends in Europe tonight they mentioned admiration of the consciousness displayed in the closing paragraph. Kudos to the brave ones in Atlanta overcoming all the reasons not to act and finding each other in attack.

Cool. Be sure to mention to them how much being raped in prison sucks when these doofuses get caught and are crying in jail. See if they give a shit then. $10 says they'll be like "oh man that's too bad" then go back to hanging out with their friends.

To poster above and those who did this action, this takes the power to move mountains for doing that kind of stuff in pacified totalitarian North America where the anarchist movement is like 1/10 of what it is in Europe, so MERCI MILLES FOIS!

No it doesn't. It just takes some deluded tools thinking they are contributing to an "international anarchist struggle" by doing some shit bored high schoolers do every day in America and writing some flowery garbage about it on the internet for the other 25 deluded retards who care to jerk off to.

And then there's always the lefty liberal ass hole who feels like posting shit talk to the internet is such an accomplishment that puts them in the position to dismiss others.

What's wrong, sweetheart, some nasty primmie anarchist burned your dear car?

The struggle is real... I know I know.

Yes, because we'd better jerk off to Miley Cyrus or to poetry completely unrelated to any sort of reality of actions. Your mom was not really a women... sorry to let that loose.

haute couture teenage warriors playing with sugar and sand.. hmm..and they call it action.. go to sleep pls.

I was once a teenager. We did a ton of petty vandalism then. We broke a lot of shit and it was fucking awesome. I must admit. However, we never destroyed machinery really. Like...nope, never. Mailboxes? Check. Random stores and schools? Check. Cars? Check. Industrial machinery? Never.

Have the words insurrection and revolution always been synonymous, or is this just something that's been developing recently? Or was it always like that, and I'm just noticing it now...? I seem to remember a time when they were mutually exclusive, to some. And if they have become synonymous, what has become of the tendency and those for which they were not? And what happened to the jargon - that is the poetry, a certain labor - of insurrectionist communiques and theory? The speech of many seems to have become instrumental and pragmatic, formula. * I wonder is these two (possible) things are aligned somehow...

No it was the same for every era. In the middle-ages around the time of the crusades insurrection and revolution were the same thing, synonymous, the slight aberration was that the elite nobles deflected the rising rebelliousness of the peasants away from themselves towards the eastern Islamic peoples inhabiting Jerusalem. History only clothes wolves in different fashions.

maybe they are synonymous for some humans, but not for others

Depends... If you understand "revolution" to signify ACTIVITY and more specifically activity that can exist in the here and now then yes... that conception of revolution is compatible with insurrection.

If you conceive of revolution as a singular point to come at some unknown time in the future as the result of following a set of rituals and prescribed gestures which aim at evangelizing this revolution which will lead one to utopia (like being taken by the rapture) then no... Not at all.

For me, an insurrection is what opens all possibilities.
A revolution is when this scenario has become inhabitable and, thus, permanent.

I like this.

well then for many at one point, insurrection was an idea specifically designed to attack, resist, and avoid not only the Messianic waiting connotations of revolution, but also the idea of permanence or striving for permanence, the striving for some permanent, "inhabitable" afterwards - and insurrection did not neatly dovetail into revolution, or complement it, but was explicitly COUNTER-revolutionary. many insurrectionists used the world revolution with contempt - not with ease as it seems now.

i do not see this anymore (spoken by "insurrectionists"). so what happened? whatever caused it, this tendency seems to have migrated out of the discursive space of "insurrection", left it, almost completely, leaving behind only a few echos and residues, if at that.

I think this analysis of the insurrectionary tenancy is pretty accurate. I would point that during the rift between insurrectionists and revolutionaries, insurrectionary anarchism was paired closely with nihilist anarchism. I see this being less and less the case as revolution becomes more interchangeable with insurrection. One could argue that the insurrectionists of today have taken the place of the activists/revolutionaries of yesteryear. A more tasteful and agreeable utopia, but a utopia nonetheless.

Actually, what you are missing is that a certain section of this insurrectional current has realized that if we want real disorder, we must equip ourselves with a) the means of creating it and b) the means of living in it. The insurrectional limit has always been the degree to which our livelihood is tied to capitalism. This is why indigenous struggles do shit anarchists would pee their pants about; because many of these cultures have land, homes, food, etc. so attacking state infrastructure, for instance, is not such a life-risk.

The insurrectional currents of yesteryear - the armed bands which provoked and then fought in the Spanish civil war, Autonomia, the Lowry Gang, just to know a few - equipped themselves with more than mere will. There is a reasonable hypothesis that says that whatever this other thing was is a key part to why these groups went further.

Fighting and building a life to fight with are not opposed to one another.
Waiting for the next ritual clash without letting it actually penetrate your life is most definitely a form of waiting, beautiful as these rituals are (and valuable as they may in a certain sense as well!)

>This is why indigenous struggles do shit anarchists would pee their pants about

like what

Stuff like Oka, Caledonia, Unis'tot'en and Elsipotog. Also for not being scared of guns and firebombs.

Yeah, them too... and the native people of southern Mexico, and the Lakota...

Are you saying guns make anarchists pee their pants?

Most communiques are about things like paint bombs because it could not be otherwise, but there's more to anarchists than what is posted on @news.

So certain insurreccionists have realized that if they want to build the commune, or as you called it, `real disorder', `building a life to fight with'... No but attacking is a life risk, they must just don't know what they're afraid of, just like people who don't know what they want, what is better for them. It's the commune or the rituals, let it penetrate your life.

Oh and

>There is a reasonable hypothesis that says that whatever this other thing was is a key part to why these groups went further.

Go reason about my cock, liberal.

this comment is actually not written well enough for me to understannd what you're trying to say except the last part at the end which...fuck you

No, just the Michael Moore/Chomsky liberal tools, who many still account for at least a significant portion of the anarchist in North America. Of course, since guns are harder to get in "Canada" then I can't really accuse them of being scared of these.

I would contest that the lack utopian vision prevents the means of creating and living disorder. This disagreement has little to do with the how, but rather is the success we can imagine obtainable or even desirable.

Well I kind of disagree completely. A lot of people have all sorts of vision. Vision is really important, of course. The key is saying: "OK, enough fucking around, let's hammer some shit out so we can actually support each other, fight with each other, and fucking believe in this shit." Emotional support for our boredom and depression, material support for our stomachs and wounds, and expand the ability the ability to wreck shit in the ways that help us provoke the social antagonisms and ruptures that we believe are so important.

I hear that all the time but rarely do you idiots follow through. When I hear talk about supporting each other from anarchists, I know it is a joke.

Its not a lack, its a shrouding! Utopia anyway is a delusional concept born of the Enlightenment and its humanistic foundations, or anthropocentric liberalism in modern terms. Every living being strives for utopia on an instinctual level, think about it, emotional response to natural desires, to eat and reproduce, what!? DONT BE PURITANICAL AND YOU BETTER DROP THE MORALITY IF YOU WISH TO BE AN ANARCHIST!
Utopia is a FAIL, every individuality is a potential utopian god unto themselves and I will not accept that any ideological blue-print like 'utopia' can ever become the rubric of anarchist desire!

Ever person has there own version of utopia, for Bill Gates, it could be the here and now, for those in the prisons he built not so much. Being an anarchist, in my opinion, does not require one to never dream. I disagree that an anarchist must be primal. In an odd way, the fact that you attempt to dictate to others what they must do is to impose own personal blue print of utopia. If part of you desire for the future in the abolishment of capitalism, band together, help each person withdraw from consumerism. Find those who are close to you own views, and reject the imposed beliefs from the ruling class. Even morality is individual, a state of self realization. What you stand for, what you will defend, what you will fight for, these are concepts beyond the primal; but I think they are part of anarchy.

I have room for you upon my psycho-analytical couch for a free assessment comrade, where we can discuss the finer details of what separates primal-ism from existentialism, the nuances of desire without doctrine, of individual ethics and the origins of self-analysis ;)

Although I prefer a table and a pint to couches. I have no doubt we could have a very lively discussion, your previous post made you seem a bit overly agitated (exclamation points and caps), I would stress that self-analysis is different than self realization.

I do believe, as Howard Zinn said, that even what seems to be small acts bring a contribution to open the way in building major sociéty changes.

Not being from Atl but having visited. Are all anarchists there stuck up teens?

There's also some stuck-up senior DHS agents, and crippled White supremacist crackers. So yeah, diverse age groups.


u madd bc atl folks arent as cynical and predictable as u are


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